Bull . Tim Duncan could do all things Amare does and at a greater effeciency.
Oh yeah, and he can play defense.
And lost both games.
BTW, Howard played 42 and 46 minutes in those games, and they were both in November while Amare was just coming back from knee surgery.
Howard was also probably trying to get revenge for last season's 2 matchups (again, both losses), when Amare held Howard, in the first game, to 4 points on 2-6 shooting, 3 rebounds, 5 turnovers, and 6 fouls, fouling out in 19:15; and in the second game to 10 points and 5 rebounds, on 5-12 shooting.
He lost both games because Phoenix is better than Orlando. It's clearly not his fault Orlando lost either game. Additionally, those games the previous year happened before Dwight's breakout season while he was still an excellent player, but not the star he is now.
The fact of the matter is, as a center, Howard is better. He does all the things a center is suppose to do better than Amare (rebound, defend) and he can score on top of it.
Wrong. I'm not saying they wouldn't be better, but Duncan is nowhere near the athlete, has nowhere near the dribble-drive ability and it's up for debate whether or not his jumper from 15-to-18 feet is as consistant as Amare's.
Duncan has more smarts, better fundamentals and a superior low-post game, but I was talking how each player perfectly complements the other.
Sure, the Suns would be better if they had an in-prime Duncan next to an in-prime Nash, but their two games wouldn't mesh nearly as well as Amare's has with Nash.
My point never has been that Amare is the better player, only that he's the perfect fit based on skill and finishing ability for Nash. My posts have mainly pointed out the flaws in the notions that Howard would be able to put up the numbers on offense with Nash that Amare has. Considering Howard's limited perimeter skills, I just don't see that at all.
As a center, I don't think you can argue. As a player, maybe, but it think the nod still goes to Howard.
However, I do think Howard's defense is a bit overrated. His rebounding more than makes up for it, but from what I've seen, and I'll admit I haven't seen as much NBA this year as I typically have in seasons past, I think he's an average to slightly above average on-ball defender.
When compared to Amare, he's great, but in regards to the rest of the League, he's all right. Ming got his season average, Gasol scored almost 5 ppg more, Bosh went for 33 ppg.
Maybe he doesn't consistently defend every player I've mentioned, but I've seen him defend it at times and in years past.
Howard's best defense this season came against Amare, holding him to 16 ppg and 8 rpg in 28 minutes per. Amare's per minute was right on par with his pre-All-Star production, but his minutes were down considerably from foul trouble (averaged 4 fouls per in 28 minutes).
I would say...
SCORING
Amare >>> Howard
REBOUNDING
Howard >>> Amare
ON-BALL DEFENSE
HOWARD >> Amare
HELP DEFENSE
Amare = Howard (2.2 bpg, 0.8 spg vs. 2.3 bpg, 0.8 spg)
PASSING
Amare = Howard (although Amare doubled his apg average from C to PF)
I'd say Howard has a slight edge, so I can't argue with a 1st-team selection, but for people to say "Dwight >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amare" is just absurd. Maybe in some aspects, but Amare is better and holds his ground in others.
As a center you take Howard. You may always take Howard because of his size, athleticism, rebounding and youth, but Amare is BY FAR, the most explosive scoring big in the NBA today. Others like Howard and Bosh have their moments, but Amare offense is almost unmatched.
Id rather have Bosh, Duncan, Garnett. They can play the 5 ?
Phoenix would have probably won a le already with Howard.
Lol, Amare.
Both are good players I have no problem with D12 being on the 1st team. Amare has had the better of thier matchup the last few seasons anyways.
Amare is so gifted and a great offensive player. But his defensive is just horrible outside of his blocks. He was thoroughly abused by Duncan today.
If Amare played some defense, he has the talent to be best Power Forward ever...but even now he hurts his team fouling out on silly plays.
Coaching is also a factor. If Garnett had Pop coaching him instead of Flip and Manu and Parker instead of Ricky Davis and Sprewell Garnett would be a 4 time champion.
Dwight doesn't have Nash to spoon feed him buckets.
Amare is talented, but his stats are attributed to Nash feeding him the ball and Shaq's presence.
Once, Nash is gone, its all down hill for Amare.
You obviously just chimed in without reading this thread. So it's Nash that deserves credit for Amare improving his dribble-drive ability? It's all Nash's doing that Amare can now hit runner, floaters and jumpers out to 20-feet consistently?
I get what you're saying, and I agree, but most in this thread are completely selling Amare short just because he has Nash. Amare isn't just about dunking on everybody anymore. A typical offensive possession for Amare starts when he receives the ball around the 15-to-20 feet from the basket.
It takes two to tango, remember? Amare's offense makes Nash look as good as Nash's passes make Amare look good. Nash may set the table, but Amare still has to finish. It's hardly a credit to Nash that Amare can sink jumpers from the baseline, the elbows or straight away out to 20-feet. It's hardly a credit to Nash that Amare can now take his defender off the dribble and either shoot a runner or floater, if not rise up and dunk in traffic.
This isn't the 04-05 Amare that was so great because 90% of his baskets were scored in the lane off the pic-n-roll. I'd say his scoring off such is down to maybe 50%.
Amare's completely changed his game. I'm not saying Nash doesn't help. He obviously does, but Nash helps most with efficiency, as in shooting percentages, not necessarily PPG. While that's a big deal, it's to Amare's credit that he's added so many weapons to his offensive arsenal to fully make the most of every Nash pass, no matter the location on the floor.
I'd take Howard over Stoudamire
remember that half of Amare's points are like easy pick n roll passes from nash.
And dwight can play defense, not just block shots
He had some better skills around the rim till he ed up his knee
Last edited by Trainwreck2100; 04-21-2008 at 02:11 AM.
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