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That is not amazing. He was just religious. He had some problems with heart and imagine him playing during Ramadan 3 games a week.
As I take a look at my life I've done similar things you say are amazing.
A friend of mine in Houston used to go to the same mosque as Hakeem (when he played there).
Hakeem used to come for morning prayer (at like 5-6 am) then sleep in one of the class rooms on the floor until afternoon prayer. People would offer him a pillow and blanket and he wouldn't take it. He just asked for a quiet place. He also drove a pretty modest car, supposedly.
He also used to fast during the month of Ramadan, and played games while fasting.
The guy is amazing to me.
That is not amazing. He was just religious. He had some problems with heart and imagine him playing during Ramadan 3 games a week.
As I take a look at my life I've done similar things you say are amazing.
I invested a lot of time on this thread and I never thought I'd see again. anyhows, TD > Hakeem.
That is not amazing. He was just religious. He had some problems with heart and imagine him playing during Ramadan 3 games a week.
As I take a look at my life I've done similar things you say are amazing.
Have you ever tried to play basketball at the gym for an hour without any water?
Imagine fasting all day, not being able to eat / drink...then having to play a basketball game at the NBA level, not your gym level. To me that takes some heart.
That along with his involvement in the community, and the guys overall humbleness, makes him an amazing person.
I really don't need your approval to think so.
That's bad cause I thought you needed my approval ...
Most of the sportsmen giving up many things, as most people. To me more amazing is what my Mom is doing.
And btw. I played without water and giving all I had.
Also I played a game 4 hours in full sun, one-on-one. Argubly no breaks.
Also I was driving shooting at the basket and all that stuff for two hours then was aking a gym (weights) for 90 minutes, then basketball again 2 hours or so and then gym again for about 2 hours. Two weeks rutine. But unfortunatelly I can't get back to those days. I wish I had.
And also I played basketball, nope that was not NBA but I was playing without ACL. Have yopu tried that? Esp. when my weight was around 240punds.
Not much amazing- plus two surgeries on the knee, not everything went as it should. Earlier on I twisted this knee pretty big amount of time, many litters of water in the knee big pain, but I kept coming back to playing basketball. How stupid I was. And I still am, but have not much oppurtunity to show it.
Well yup I can show it on the forum, when everybody right now don't give a what I have to say.
Beno > Nash
I go with Hakeem. Both are so close to each other and on this board of course most will side with Duncan.
I think one of the biggest differences is the teams they played on during their peaks.
Hakeem had a great team in 86, one that looked to be a dominant force into the early 90's. Sampson hurt his knees and was never the same, 3 other huge players were kicked out of the league because of drugs. Lucas, Loyld, Wiggins I think.
Hakeem suffered on a crappy team from 87-92. You put Duncan on those teams and Duncan isn't winning rings. you put Magic Johnson on those teams and they aren't winning rings. Great players have to be surrounded by talent to win.
Same can be said of Garnett...look what happened this year, put Garnett on a team with great players and next thing you know he is one one of the best teams in the league. Doesn't mean you will win it all but it gives you a chance. Dream didn't have a chance from 87-92.
When you look at Hakeem's time with the rockets. He had 6 years where the team could be said had a solid chance of winning a championship. 86, 93-97. After 97 dreams knees started to give out. In those years, he went to a western conference finals and three nba championships, winning two.
Hakeem also took his cougars to three final four appearances. Surrond a great player and great things happen.
Give a great player buck "the blade" johnson, Allen Level and all the other scrubs Hakeem played with from 87-92 and you aren't going anywhere.
Duncan couldn't save those teams.
Replace Duncan with Garnett and the spurs are still winning championships while Duncan would be stuck on a crappy Timberwolves team.
Replace Domique Wilkins with Bird on the Celtics and the Celtics are still winning championships. Wilkins was a flat out stud..wonder how it would have looked if he had the 86 celtics surronding him?
Duncans teams have been better, he has had great supporting cast around him. You put Hakeem on these teams and they still kick ass.
So who is the better individual player?
Flip a coin and pick...no one is head and shoulders better then the other. I think both are better then shaq though.
Here are there playoff stats....
Playoff stats:
Points: Hakeem 25.9
Duncan 23.8
Rebounds: Duncan 12.5
Hakeem 11.2
Blocked shots: Hakeem 3.25
Duncan 2.8
Steals: Hakeem 1.68
Duncan 0.7
Assists: Duncan 3.5
Hakeem 3.2
Free throws: Hakeem 72%
Duncan 69%
As you can see these guys are both studs...if we are talking about individual talent with the same players around them, I'll go with Hakeem for the simple fact his defense was some of the best I've ever seen.
If we are going by who has the better teams and the better people surronding him for a career.... It's Duncan by far.
They are so close though, no one is head and shoulders above the other...if you think otherwise you are a fool.
I have no problem with someone thinking Duncan is slightly better the Hakeem. I just happen to think Dream was slightly better then Duncan.
Last edited by cinemafusion; 04-19-2008 at 08:17 PM.
Buzzer-beating 3 point shots in the playoffs:
Duncan - 1
Hakeem - 0
Not to take away from what you said but Hakeem has one two...Game 4 of 1995 finals. Hakeem hits a 3 pointer at the buzzer to put an end to the Orlando Magic
Quit bumping this thread, can't you see the first post as it was edited by Kori?
8 Months old.
Well Duncan isn't really close to Hakeem with Defense. Hakeem is up there in all time steals and block shots.
And the reason we are still talking about Hakeem now is because he is the one who blocks John Starks 3 pointer to win game 6.
I agree, if Hakeem doesn't block that shot...the knicks win. Hakeem was a force on the defensive side.
Hakeem did destroy the Lakers in 86 averaging over 30 points for the season and he didn't do too bad against the Celtics that year. He averaged 28.5 for the series. They didn't contain Hakeem, Celtics just had the better team.
Gets down to that really, Hakeem was never really on that great of teams....I feel for Garnett the same way but he is on a good team this year.
One thing that kills me about those that judge players. You put the same talent around Kevin Garnett like that around a player like Duncan and he has just as many rings or at least as many opportunites to get the rings. We are talking about to very special players here.
You put Duncan on the Timberwolf teams Garnett was on and he doesn't sniff the finals. As great as Duncan is and he is great, you can't win if you have crap around you.
Best players of alltime who've I've seen play:
1. Tim Duncan
2. Hakeem Olajuwon
3. The rest
Duncan's team in 2003 was arguably the worst supporting cast FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM in NBA history..only Hakeem's 1st championship rivals it IMO..there was no near all-star caliber players..so Duncan has already proven he can carry a supporting cast that was far from GREAT..he averaged 25, 15, 5 assists and 3 blocks in the 2003 playoffs, all leading the team..including defeating Kobe and Shaq..
Garnett has had a good supporting cast in the past..
KG doesn't win with the Spurs, simply because of the difference of styles..Duncan is a post player on both sides, Garnett is more perimeter oriented..there's no way KG would have got the 2003 Spurs a championship..
Don't forget the '99 team. 2nd year Tim had an declining 33 yr old David Robinson who averaged 17.8 pts 9.6 rebounds. Avery Johnson, an ancient Terry Porter, Jerome Kersey, Mario Elie, Samaki Walker and Sean who played all of 19 regular season games. Not exactly a HOF supporting cast. That's what makes that year so remarkable.
Real funny.
Yeah there is no way you can compare KG with Duncan... KG doesn't have a back to the basket game...
I disagree, KG would have done just as well. Why couldn't KG have taken Spurs on his back and taken them to a championship.
KG's numbers that year were 23 points, 13.4 boards, 6 assists, 1.4 steals, 1.6 blocks, and .75 at the line
Duncan was 23 points 12.9 rebounds, 3.9 assists, .7 steals, and 2.9 blocks with a .71 at the line.
The spurs would not have sucked as a team with him on the team in replace of Duncan. I would say Duncan, KG, Dream could take that team to the championship....Shaq wouldn't be able to. I don't like Shaq's defense and his free throw %. It hurts teams in te 4th quarter. (I'm talking about a prime Shaq, not what we see now)
When I say these things I'm not taking away from Duncan but I'm trying to be fair to guys who had crap teams around them for a long time. It was disgusting that Dream had to go from 87-92 with nothing around him.
And look at my point now, Garnett has a great team around him and all of a sudden he is on the best team.
Put Duncan or put Dream on those Timberwolf teams and they go nowhere. Give Dream/ Duncan the team Garnett has with the Celtics and he has a chance to win a championship.
To win a championship it comes down to good team, hard work, and luck.
Shaq was awesome but it was a little lucky the ball happens to bounce right to Horry in Sac town.
Spurs have a great team this year and with the right bounces of the ball can win another championship.
Hakeem's rockets played a classic in seattle in 93 losing in game 7 in overtime. They had a chance to ice it in the finals minutes of the 4th....the next two years they hit those shots and the other team missed. Hard work and luck and then the teams need players like a Duncan or Dream.
Last edited by cinemafusion; 04-24-2008 at 05:38 PM.
[QUOTE=HarlemHeat37;2425973]Duncan's team in 2003 was arguably the worst supporting cast FOR A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM in NBA history..only Hakeem's 1st championship rivals it IMO..there was no near all-star caliber
Sad think is that was one of Hakeem's best teams.
86 team was his best, that team was going places if Sampson doesn't get hurt and 3 key players aren't kicked out for drugs.
95-96 team was his second best
93-94 was third
97 was fourth
After that all his teams sucked or Hakeem was just to old. In 1998 his skills went on the decline.
That is just 6 years out of an NBA lifetime where he had a ligit shot at a le.
He had a great team in college and went to the final four 3 times.
So I guess it balances out. phi slamma jamma! pretty darn good college team.
Ah, the stats game again. Nothing says "champion" like stats.
Except there's a lot more to games than statistics. And while we're at it, check out the block differences between the two players. Think that doesn't say a of a lot about protecting the paint?
Tim Duncan has displayed time and time again, even in this early playoffs, that he can be the man to step up in crunch time and completely take over a game.
Garnett gets into big game situations and passes the rock, is hesitant, cannot be dependent upon. Throw whatever statistics you want at me, Garnett shies away from the big shot. Duncan steps up and drills it.
...even if it's a frigging 3 pointer
I'm a gigantic Duncan fan. But, put KG on any of out Championship teams, and KG probably wins those rings.
Duncan, right from the start of his career was in a great situation with a great organization.
You can't say the same about KG. The ONE year he had a team comparable to Duncan's in talent he got far into the playoffs. And, that team was probably equivalent in talent to the Spurs worst championship team, which is the 2003 team. And, it was held back considering it was coached by Flip.
Which brings me to my next point:
Flip = #1 reason Pistons haven't made much noise lately
Garnett = reason none of those Twolves teams (except the one good when they had) are blamed for being average.
??????
Love your sig....even if it's a frigging 3 pointer
KG is finally making some noise because he happens to have 2 future HOF'ers and some nice role players playing along side him. Felton Spencer could do almost as well with this years roster.
2005 was the first time Tim had two impact players playing alongside him. Read "impact" not "HOF" caliber guys. Now, todays Manu and Tony are arguably the the equivalent of todays Paul Pierce and Ray Allen. But they certainly weren't in 2003 and probably not in 2005 either. And again other then a 33 year old David Robinson and serviceable role players what impact player did Tim have in 1999? Check it out for yourself..., no one. And let's not forget that Tim was only in his second year ? Pretty good for a second year player to lead a team to the championship.
KG better do something this year, otherwise the stigma of not winning a championship is still going to accompany him. Right now he looks like he may finally get the getting out of the first round monkey off his back.
To address those comments that Kevin could do what Tim did with the same players, I don't think so. Stats are just one aspect of being on a team. This can't be stressed enough. I don't think that Kevin has the intangibles that Timmy has. Leadership, poise (in other words not acting like a punk and swinging at someone when they lose their temper) character, fostering team harmony and fellowship and leading by example. Tim is a team first guy. He's Pop's tip of the spear and gets everyone to buy into the team system. With all due respect I don't think KG could carry Tim's jock when it comes to those intangibles.
Want another example; how about when Timmy took a discount contract to remain in San Antonio and signed a contract that freed up salary to sign Tony and Manu. I don't remember the numbers or specifics but I remember the net effect. We resigned all our core players, including Bruce Bowen.
Remember Garnett's first 112 million dollar contract. I think he initially wanted 122 million, and this was after his first 3 years in the league, I'm doing this from memory so correct me where I'm wrong. But my point is that albatross prevented the Timber Wolves from ever signing other key players.
Tim made a huge sacrifice, Kevin didn't. People, especially the players see this. This has to have a halo effect on the whole organization That's why the Spurs currently have 4 NBA Championships and KG as great as he was could never get his team out of the first round, imho.
All this is well and good until you look at the games in which Garnett has had to step up.
He didn't.
He cowered down, stopped being aggressive, and watched his team shoot their way to a loss.
I love KG as a player, I bought his shoe one year. He went to high school close to where I live now. And for most of the game, he's at the upper echelon of players the NBA. The problem is when the game is near the end and the team needs someone clutch. KG isn't. Does that mean he won't step up this year? Of course not. But accrediting him to be on Duncan's level when he has never shown any semblance of being a clutch performer is foolhardy. Merit is awarded by deed, not by proclivity or potential. KG has the potential. He'd better show it now.
Thanks dude. I love it too
IMO, if you let Garnett develope in the same environment as Duncan since he came into the league up until now, you have roughly the same results in terms of winning %.
He'd be a totally different player than he is now.
None of use can say for sure that he'd be as successful as Duncan or he wouldn't be.
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