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  1. #1
    Believe. Man of Steel's Avatar
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    Last edited by Man of Steel; 04-22-2008 at 08:41 AM.

  2. #2
    Appoggiatura ancestron's Avatar
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    NBA must end rash of flopping
    SAN ANTONIO

    If Jose Canseco is the godfather of steroids, then Vlade Divac is the godfather of flopping. Or maybe it was that das ly Bill Laimbeer.

    Whatever, this hideous tactic must be stopped.

    Flopping - or exaggerating the effects of physical contact in hopes of drawing a foul on the opponent - is technically a form of cheating. It's more acting than basketball. It's creating an illusion to fool the referees.

    It's garbage. It's spineless and wrong. It belongs in professional wrestling. Problem is, it's a central storyline in the Western Conference playoffs, where the Spurs beat the Suns in Game 1 and Shaquille O'Neal claimed, "the floppers prevailed."

    "I don't react to players' comments or really anybody's comments," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said Monday. "It's like Hillary (Clinton) and Barack (Obama), you know? So and so said this about you. Let's talk about health care and that sort of thing instead of the bull (expletive)."

    Fine, O'Neal says a lot of silly things. But he's right about flopping, and he should know, having been targeted by floppers more than any other player in history. (Because of O'Neal's freakish size and strength, opponents can do nothing but resort to cowardly gamesmanship.)

    Stone cold serious about the issue, O'Neal wasn't about to back off comments he made after Saturday's game.

    "They weren't defending me," O'Neal said. "All they got to do is flop. It's frustrating that the referees don't allow two guys to fight. It's supposed to be two guys fighting, and one guy is out there flopping. A lot of times, I don't do anything. But I guess all you got to do is walk next to me and fall."

    Flopping has become such an issue in American basketball that NBA executive Stu Jackson, who oversees the officiating, claimed last season that he was going to research how other leagues handle the most notorious offenders.

    Jackson did not return phone calls Monday, but when informed about the flopping charges here in San Antonio, the guy who answered the phone at NBA headquarters said with great sarcasm: "What a surprise."

    Overseas, the problem is so insidious that FIBA referees can assess technical fouls on players for flopping, and with more and more foreign-born players inhabiting the NBA, it's easy to see how the product can suffer.

    "They come from the soccer culture where they kind of get elbowed and then they get carried off on the stretcher," Suns General Manager Steve Kerr said. "And then they come back a minute later and they're running at full speed. First, you're worried they're going to die. And then you're worried they're going to score three more goals in the game."

    Clearly, the Spurs' Manu Ginobili is the Jack Nicholson of flopping, and that's a shame. Ginobili is a marvelous talent with great courage and toughness. A total team player, he accepted less money and a lesser role (sixth man) just to help his team win. As Popovich noted on Monday, "He got over himself a long time ago."

    Yet outside San Antonio, Ginobili has tarnished his reputation by being King Flopper, and he will never be appreciated for the great player he is. But it's not just European players who have mastered the art of flopping. It's not just the Spurs, either. And I hate to tell you this, but the Suns have plenty of floppers, too, including the two-time MVP.

    "Raja Bell's a flopper, Kurt (Thomas) is a flopper, Ginobili is probably the king of floppers," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "There are levels of flopping. Divac might be the father of flopping. That's gamesmanship . . . you love 'em when you're with them and hate 'em when they're against you. That's normal."

    No, normal would be two guys playing basketball, and the best man wins. Instead, flopping rewards inferior players, enrages the victims and makes the officials look stupid. It's why Laimbeer became the most hated athlete in sports, while Dennis Rodman literally learned how to propel himself backward in the air, as if shot out of a cannon. Even great players such as Reggie Miller and John Stockton cheapened their careers through theatrics.

    Someone has to put a stop to this. Ever see how NFL referees sneer at punters who lie on the field after flopping? The NBA needs to take the cue, get a clue, and start fining all culprits.

    Otherwise, O'Neal may take matters into his own hands, and pity the floppers if that ever happens.

  3. #3
    Appoggiatura ancestron's Avatar
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    just how in the is the NBA going to stop flopping?

  4. #4
    Believe.
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    How can AK47 be left out???

  5. #5
    The next Tim Duncan ForeignFan's Avatar
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    "They come from the soccer culture where they kind of get elbowed and then they get carried off on the stretcher," Suns General Manager Steve Kerr said."


    This is a stupid reference. France & Argentina -to name a few- also play rugby and French and Argentinan rugby players do not flop despite this "soccer culture". B/S comment.

  6. #6
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    I have a feeling last year's ing and crying by suns players, fans and writers was nothing compared to what it will be this year.

    be prepared Spurs fans be very prepared

  7. #7
    Believe.
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    Nobody in Phoenix listens to Bickley. Nobody in San Antonio should either.

    Bickley isn't a fan. Don't consider him as such.

  8. #8
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    Jackson did not return phone calls Monday, but when informed about the flopping charges here in San Antonio, the guy who answered the phone at NBA headquarters said with great sarcasm: "What a surprise."
    What he really meant was "What a surprise that the Phoenix Suns would complain after losing a game. Big, Big in surprise.

    Why don't the Suns inform the league that they have some major floppers of their own. And poor little "I don't do nothing" Shaq. Hey, sticking that elbow in someones throat, isn't "doing nothing". You dumb . Your bowl em over style days are over. Refs are tired of letting you get away with that that you have been getting away with for years.

    Want the game called "correctly"? Fine. Get ready to foul out of every game by the start of the third quarter. You big dope. Go back and look at some film. See how long you have gotten away with this .

  9. #9
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    Otherwise, O'Neal may take matters into his own hands, and pity the floppers if that ever happens.
    The only thing O'Neal is going to "take into his own hands" is a couple of triple patty cheeseburgers, followed by a dozen Krispy Kremes.

  10. #10
    Believe. Man of Steel's Avatar
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  11. #11
    No darkness Cry Havoc's Avatar
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    Maybe if Shaq would learn some body control, he wouldn't commit so many charges.


    ... What's that? He never thought to develop his game outside of a 4 foot jumper and literally knocking his man off the court to free himself for a dunk? I guess that's his problem for being a re ed asshole who has exactly three moves in his repertoire, the spin to the hoop under his man, which he can't even do anymore, the turn to the middle with a baby hook, and the elbow-clearing drop step that's the most obvious charge of any player in NBA history.


    Let me ask EVERYONE this: If flopping is such a problem, and it's so easy to get called for a charge, how come Mr. Tim Duncan almost NEVER gets rang up with an offensive foul? I mean, I think I can count the number of times (I remember) he's been hit with a charge on one freaking hand this season! Flopping wouldn't be so successful if players learned to control their bodies and to go around their defender or shoot over him.

  12. #12
    SpursTalk #1 Spurs Forum Elraptor's Avatar
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    @ the pics.

    Suns fans - Epic Fail.

  13. #13
    veni, vidi, vici naico's Avatar
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    Overseas, the problem is so insidious that FIBA referees can assess technical fouls on players for flopping, and with more and more foreign-born players inhabiting the NBA, it's easy to see how the product can suffer.
    Thats bull , the guy doesn't know what he's talking about. He's just inventing stuff on the spot, how pathetic can you be.

  14. #14
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
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    Flopping has become such an issue in American basketball that NBA executive Stu Jackson, who oversees the officiating, claimed last season that he was going to research how other leagues handle the most notorious offenders.

    Jackson did not return phone calls Monday, but when informed about the flopping charges here in San Antonio, the guy who answered the phone at NBA headquarters said with great sarcasm: "What a surprise."

    Stu Jackson making that comment was totally out of line, and unprofessional. Even if everything Shaq (and that dip Bickley) said was 100% correct, Jackson has no business making that comment. And no, he didn't mean "what a surprise" that Phoenix complained. He was saying that it is no surprise that it happened in San Antonio.

    Jackson suspended Bruce Bowen this year, ending Bowen's consecutive game streak, largely because of contact from the Suns' organization. He made up his mind about Bowen's guilt before he had even reviewed the game films.

    If the Suns felt like they needed to call Stu Jackson after Game 1, then Jackson is obligated to answer the phone. But his comment displays his bias, and there is no place for that in the league's front office. Stu Jackson is a liability to the league, and it's just a matter of time before he gets outed publicly for some of the he pulls behind the scenes. There's an old saying that "two people can keep a secret... if one of them is dead". And there are lot more than two people who know about Stu Jackson's tactics.

    Stern already demoted him by chopping his duties in half. Jackson is supposed to have no involvement in referee issues anymore. But I'd bet my left...arm... that he's involved in this up to his ass. Stern needs to deal with him in the off season. I don't think he would fire him outright, but he can put him in charge of European development, and get him out of operations. Few people outside of Phoenix would object.

  15. #15
    veni, vidi, vici naico's Avatar
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    These dumbass writers should learn the b-ball rules..When you get hit close to the basket by ur opponent on offense, you can't move are otherwise its a defensive foul. So as a defender you avoid to move when the player with the ball in his hands attacks you.
    So screw the people who complain because KT intelligent enough to keep still on defense and O'Neal nd Stoudamire are dumb enough to keep bumping inside like complete morrons

  16. #16
    Kori's nightmare SpurOutofTownFan's Avatar
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    There are several stereotypes here like all those who come from Europe are floppers.

    Also they talk about soccer like they know something although some people actually do what Kerr says.

    Then you have Manu's character assassination again and again. Repeated over an over again since the times of Karl's infamous comments when he had no way to stop Ginobili.

    Then we are going to see the referees calling the game really tight tonight. Players should expect this to happen and act in consequence.

  17. #17
    Kori's nightmare SpurOutofTownFan's Avatar
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    Main problem is that this one is on Shaq alone. If he hadn't said anything about it no one would be talking about flopping today.

    What a sore loser, Im gonna ing eat his soul.

  18. #18
    Thank you, Tim Duncan! peskypesky's Avatar
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    Main problem is that this one is on Shaq alone. If he hadn't said anything about it no one would be talking about flopping today.

    What a sore loser, Im gonna ing eat his soul.
    I myself will piss on his grave.

  19. #19
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    A little bit about the writer...

    Dan Bickley's Profile
    I am opinionated, overcaffeinated and passionate about all things that interest me. I love Led Zeppelin, Stella Artois and novelist Patrick O'Brian. I'm awed by Johnny Depp, and completely understand why my wife loves Brad Pitt. I have covered the best athletes of our generation (Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods) and the two worst franchises in history (the Cubs and the Cardinals). You can look it up.




    WTF?

  20. #20
    Veteran 703 Spurz's Avatar
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    If flopping was a league-wide problem wouldn't the refs call more blocking fouls then anything else?

    Notice how the teams who lose are the ones who always make the flopping claim.

    Gee whattasurprise that is

  21. #21
    Believe.
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    Nobody in Phoenix listens to Bickley. Nobody in San Antonio should either.

    Bickley isn't a fan. Don't consider him as such.
    I agree that Bickley is an idiot, but he is surely a fan. He's the biggest Suns homer on the radio.

  22. #22
    Appoggiatura ancestron's Avatar
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    oh so the writer IS gay. I see.

  23. #23
    Believe.
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    Yet outside San Antonio, Ginobili has tarnished his reputation by being King Flopper, and he will never be appreciated for the great player he is. But it's not just European players who have mastered the art of flopping. It's not just the Spurs, either. And I hate to tell you this, but the Suns have plenty of floppers, too, including the two-time MVP.

    "Raja Bell's a flopper, Kurt (Thomas) is a flopper, Ginobili is probably the king of floppers," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "There are levels of flopping. Divac might be the father of flopping. That's gamesmanship . . . you love 'em when you're with them and hate 'em when they're against you. That's normal."
    1. He doesn't hate to tell you.

    2. He's not the first writer to denounce flopping.

  24. #24
    Believe.
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    He's the biggest Suns homer on the radio
    You forgot about Al McCoy.

  25. #25
    Thank you, Tim Duncan! peskypesky's Avatar
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    someone needs to send that bag the video of Shaq's flop

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