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the answer is sadly no
People were still scared in 04,
still will to give dubya the benefit of the doubt,
Iraq was still fairly new and misunderstood, was not understood then as an open-ended occupation,
the historic tiness of dubya's and head's reign of corruption and willful incompetence was not so evident,
the economy was not shrinking.
Still, dubya won '04 with the smallest margin of any in bent president. Hardly more of an endorsement than losing the popular vote in '00 by 600K.
Whott backed and is still backing a loser, and a lost "war".
The best working assumption is that the price of oil will never go down signficicantly. Airlines and truckers better adjust. Dramatic conservation and swtiching to non-carbon transport fuel is the only realistic direction.
The entire corn ethanol industry, in USA and Europe, needs to be cancelled immediately.
Last edited by boutons_; 04-12-2008 at 09:01 PM.
the answer is sadly no
Well, you think Health Care is expensive now, just wait till it's free!
---- Ooooops...
Wromg thread.
THey didn't like W then...he did lose the popular vote in 00 after all...People were still scared in 04,
still will to give dubya the benefit of the doubt,
They voted for him because the Democratic Response to W's ty Presidency was to become even tier.
False....no one particularly cared about that then, no particularly cares about that now...except for the same people. And they voted against Bush then.
Iraq was still fairly new and misunderstood, was not understood then as an open-ended occupation,
It was evident in 2000.the historic tiness of dubya's and head's reign of corruption and willful incompetence was not so evident,
Accoriding to the Democrats at that time, it was.the economy was not shrinking.
Still, dubya won '04 with the smallest margin of any in bent president. Hardly more of an endorsement than losing the popular vote in '00 by 600K.
Idiot...he was the first President in history elected without winning the popular vote, to be re-elected.
You guys just managed to find a tier candidate...a gigantic pussy whose platform was based on kissing the corrupt asses of the UN, France and Germany...French and German leaders, and parties, no longer in power I might add.
A guy whose biggest claim to fame was treason and losing a war...
You know how ing sweet it was that American deemed him unworthy to be the President, largely on the basis of his Vietnam Era political activity...
It was ing sweet watching that political opportunists/ entire lifelong dream get ing flushed down the toilet.
It was so ing sweet...
Sure....just be sure to show up on election night and claim the Republicans rigged the election again...AGAIN.Whott backed and is still backing a loser, and a lost "war".
Sure it will, someday, adjusted for inflation of course...are you really so shortsighted?The best working assumption is that the price of oil will never go down signficicantly.
Airlines and truckers better adjust. Dramatic conservation and swtiching to non-carbon transport fuel is the only realistic direction.
The entire corn ethanol industry, in USA and Europe, needs to be cancelled immediately.
boutons...you're a ing leftist shill, completely hardwired into a set of beliefs, some of which may be accurate, but all of which, are most definitely not accurate...
I have zero respect for anyone whose beliefs lie extremely shifted to one spectrum or the other...
You are not the voice of this country, you never have been, you never will be, what you are is someone who represents an end of an extremist political belief spectrum...and nothing else.
No an objective voice.
Not a credible voice.
Not an accurate voice.
You know...you don't even need type words into your posts in this forum...we already know what you're going to say about anything, what your view will be, just based on who is saying the words you are responding too.... , we know what your response will be, before they even say them.
Last edited by whottt; 04-13-2008 at 06:21 AM.
Yes, when will gas prices drop? What ever happened to Nancy Pelosi's plan? She said she would bring down prices two years ago, right? They only increased since the democrats took power:
House GOP challenges Pelosi for gas price plan:
House Republican leaders on Tuesday challenged Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to release a plan to lower gas prices that they say Democrats touted when they were in the minority.
“Two years ago this week, you stated that House Democrats had a ‘commonsense plan’ to ‘lower gas prices,’ ” the letter said. “In light of the skyrocketing gasoline prices affecting working families and every sector of our struggling economy, we are writing today to respectfully request that you reveal this ‘commonsense plan’ so we can begin work on responsible solutions to help ease this strain.”
The letter is signed by Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio), Minority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), Conference Chairman Adam Putnam (R-Fla.), Policy Chairman Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.) as well as other members of leadership: Reps. Kay Granger (R-Texas), John Carter (R-Texas), Tom Cole (R-Okla.) and Eric Cantor (R-Va.).
In a press release dated April 24, 2006, Pelosi said, “Democrats have a commonsense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices by cracking down on price gouging, rolling back the billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks and royalty relief given to big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative fuels.” The letter cited policies put in place during the GOP control of Congress that the Speaker claimed had raised prices on American consumers to benefit oil companies.
The House GOP leaders’ letter points out that the price of gasoline has ed $1.18 since Democrats took over in January and stands at $3.51.
“Once a nightmare scenario, $4 gasoline is now a very real possibility of becoming a summer staple,” the letter stated. “In some cities, including San Francisco and Chicago, it is already a startling reality.”
Pelosi’s office did not respond immediately for comment.
The political drumbeat against high gas prices in the House coincidences with that of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who has made the issue a key campaign talking point.
McCain has called for a suspension of the gas tax to help consumers get through the summer months.
The McCain campaign and congressional Republicans have met repeatedly in recent weeks in an effort to coordinate their messages.
But, but, but The dimm-o-craps have a plan. They have increased
the MPG on car manufactures and they have "invested" in
renewable energy. My Congressman told me so. Pelosi told me so.
It is all Bush's fault, don't you know. He is in cohots with the oil
companies. Like you know they don't take money from the Companies, just the individuals who work for them. Oh, I forgot,
"renewable, CLEAN energy". Sorry about that!
That is the most accurate description of boutons I have ever read.
He's correct here, at least! The corn ethanol scam needs to be ended immediately. It's of dubious (at best) environmental value, drives up the cost of food, and hasn't lowered the price of fuel at all.
Ditto...
Every now and then, anybody is right. Even Boutons! Even a broken clock is right trice a day!
It is worth exactly: bupkiss. I watched the video and did some digging, pretty much knowing what I would find.
There have been "water" cars for decades.
Here is how water cars work:
Seperate water into hydrogen and oxygen, then go and burn the hydrogen and oxygen for energy, and all you get is clean water as an end result.
Unfortunately, you can't cheat the laws of thermodynamics.
How do you split water into hydrogen and oxygen? Electricity.
It is a simple law of thermodynamics that you can't get more energy out of a chemical reaction than you put into it.
Period.
I did some checking and this guy puts about 5kw worth of energy into something and gets 1.6kw energy out of it.
Discussion here
and
Here
FIRE WATER
Incredible! We are apparently immersed in a scientifically-ignorant culture in which the media can’t figure out the simplest of what would have been a grade-school science project for my generation. Go to www.randi.org/media/WaterFuel.wmv and be appalled at what “inventor” Denny Klein is selling to FOX26 News in Clearwater, Florida, via their excited reporter Craig Patrick, as a system that will run a car for 100 miles “fueled” solely by four ounces of water! In the video, a hydrogen torch using “HHO technology” that Klein demonstrates, is described by ridiculous expressions such as, “hotter than the surface of the Sun,” and we’re told that it takes “only seconds to literally burn a hole through charcoal.” Duh! Charcoal burns, dummy!
The FOX video shows Klein holding the tip of the welder between his fingers, which, they marvel, “remains cool to the touch.” Duh! again. Any of this sort of torch acts the same. The tip is cool because the compressed gas, as it decompresses and exits, makes the metal tip cold. It’s only when the mixed gases – hydrogen and oxygen, in this case – burn, that heat is produced, and that happens just beyond the tip. WHERE’S THE MIRACLE HERE? Clearwater’s FOX TV tells us, “No other gas will do this." Wrong, juvenile, and naïve. Add, stupid.
We’re told, in the FOX video, that “people still have trouble believing him” when Klein tells them that his fuel is water. Small wonder. That water has to first be broken down into hydrogen and oxygen through a method known as electrolysis. That process was discovered back in the 1800s, and it uses more energy than can be gained from it by burning the two components – that’s called the Conservation of Energy law, and it hasn’t yet been repealed. Cars that run “on water” have been re-invented every few years. Recently there was Steven Horvath in Australia, who sold a lot of stock to losers, Henry Garrett in Texas – in 1935 – and Stanley Meyer, who was convicted of fraud in 1996. Andrija Puharich – who also “discovered” Uri Geller! – Archie Blue, Bob Boyce, Carl Cella, Charles H. Garrett, Daniel Dingel, Hector Pierre Vaes, Nakamatsu Yoshiro, Sam Leslie Leach, Stanley Meyer, and scores of others, all came up with this same insane idea, and all fell on their collective nose.
Now, I don’t know who Craig Patrick is, nor whether he has a grade-school education, but if FOX26 News thinks they’ve got a genius on board, they’re dreaming. However, Klein will attract investors with this juvenile idea, and I’m sure someone in Washington will spend some of our tax dollars looking into it. Count on it.
Last edited by RandomGuy; 04-28-2008 at 01:05 PM. Reason: emphasis
The alarm bells should start ringing in your head when a guy gets a "miracle" invention that is seemingly too good to be true, and starts trying to sell franchises.
"Look at my fantastic invention, it does all of this, and I have a great presentation on it. Now that you have seen the marketing presentation, how about giving me $10,000 for a franchise so that you can make money?"
RUN THE AWAY, AND CONTACT THE POLICE BEFORE THE GUY DISAPPEARS.
I have two semesters of college chemistry, and I know enough about what is going on to guess what this guy was doing, and that su ion was borne out by some simple fact checking.
This is not the first "water car", but merely another in a long line of frauds.
The pattern is this:
Guy builds an "water car".
Guy goes out and files for a patent.
When asked for proof or outside expert examination of the water car, he always finds some excuse to not do so, or simply vanishes.
I will bet you double or nothing on my student loans that he has not yet completed his patent by bringing the damn thing in and letting a patent office team look it over to see if it actually does what it says it does.
The lastest update from the HHO company is that the car is "just around the corner".
These things have been "just around the corner" for over two centuries (that is how long it has been since some chemist first ran electricity through water).
I think that "corner" is in never never land.
another joker, home brew ethanol plant, $10K, plus buying the bugs periodically, forever.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/...ss/27proto.php
Sugar lready has environmental/shipping costs, and the world price horribly depressed by European and NA sugar subsidies.
clean it? maintain it?
The replaceable parts list probabably probably prices out at $50K.
This joker really has the Big Picture down pat.
Is $10 per gallon gas possible?
Gasoline May Soon Cost a Sawbuck
Big New Shock at the Pump Forecast by Two Analysts
DAN DORFMAN
The SunGet ready for another economic shock of major proportions — a virtual doubling of prices at the gas pump to as much as $10 a gallon.
That's the message from a couple of analytical energy industry trackers, both of whom, based on the surging oil prices, see considerably more pain at the pump than most drivers realize.
Gasoline nationally is in an accelerated upswing, having jumped to $3.58 a gallon from $3.50 in just the past week. In some parts of the country, including New York City and the West Coast, gas is already sporting a price tag above $4 a gallon. There was a pray-in at a Chevron station in San Francisco on Friday led by a minister asking God for cheaper gas, and an Arco gas station in San Mateo, Calif., has already raised its price to a sky-high $4.62.
In Manhattan, at a Mobil gas station at York Avenue and East 61st Street, premium gas is now $4.03 a gallon. Two days ago, it was $3.96. Why such a high price? "Blame the people at STOPEC (he meant OPEC) and the oil companies," an attendant there told me.
These increases are taking place before the all-important summer driving season, signaling even higher prices ahead.
That's also the outlook of the Automobile Association of America. "As long as the price of crude oil stays above $100 a barrel, drivers will be forced to pay more and more at the gas pump," a AAA spokesman, Troy Green, said.
Oil recently hit an all-time high of nearly $120 a barrel, more than double its early 2007 price of about $50 a barrel. It closed Friday at $118.52.
The forecasts calling for a jump to between $7 and $10 a gallon are based on the view that the price of crude is on its way to $200 in two to three years.
Translating this price into dollars and cents at the gas pump, one of our forecasters, the chairman of Houston-based Dune Energy, Alan Gaines, sees gas rising to $7-$8 a gallon. The other, a commodities tracker at Weiss Research in Jupiter, Fla., Sean Brodrick, projects a range of $8 to $10 a gallon.
While $7-$10 a gallon would be ground-breaking in America, these prices would not be trendsetting internationally. For example, European drivers are already s ing out $9 a gallon (which includes a $2-a-gallon tax).
Canadians are also being hit with rising gas prices. They are paying the American-dollar equivalent of $4.92 a gallon, and they're being told to brace themselves for prices above $5.65 a gallon this summer.
Early last year, with a barrel of oil trading in the low $50s and gasoline nationally selling in a range of $2.30 to $2.50 a gallon, Mr. Gaines — in an impressive display of crystal ball gazing — accurately predicted oil was $100-bound and that gasoline would follow suit by reaching $4 a gallon.
His latest prediction of $200 oil is open to question, since it would undoubtedly create considerable global economic distress. Further, just about every energy expert I talk to cautions me to expect a sizable pullback in oil prices, maybe to between $50 and $70 a barrel, especially if there's a global economic slowdown.
While Mr. Gaines thinks there could be a temporary decline in the oil price, he's convinced an overall uptrend is unstoppable. In fact, he thinks his $200 forecast could be conservative, and that perhaps $250 could be reached. His reasoning: a combination of shrinking supply and increasing demand, especially from China, India, and America.
Mr. Brodrick's $200 oil forecast is largely predicated on a combination of pretty flat supply and rip-roaring demand. Other key catalysts include surging demand in China and India, where auto sales are booming, and major supply disruptions in Nigeria and also in Mexico, our second-largest source of oil imports, where oil production has fallen off a cliff.
More factors include the ever-present danger of additional supply disruptions from volatile countries in the Middle East that are not our allies, and the unwillingness of SUV-loving Americans to trim their unquenchable thirst for foreign oil. Likewise, for the first time, emerging markets this year will use more oil than America.
I have no doubt that as long as the ME remains unstable gas prices will continue their trend upward...
It is inevitable. The better question is when that will happen.
Probably later than you think, and earlier than many here would seem to believe.
My best guess as to when we will see $10 gas is about 15 years down the road.
That might sound a bit harsh, but represents an overall average increase of about 7% per year over that time period.
Here is the problem.
Low prices for crude for a long time led to a few things:
1) Exploration was not a high priority
2) Expanding and maintaining capacity was not a high priority
3) Many companies that did oil exploration left the field, taking the trained geologists with them.
4) Many companies that built and maintained oil rigs went out of business, taking the trained engineers and mechanics with them.
5) New graduates to petroleum engineering programs faced no job prospects, and programs for this specialized geology discinpline went away.
So, now that oil prices are through the roof, oil companies around the world are suddenly competing for:
Engineers
Equipment
Experienced field hands.
All of which are in short supply, driving up prices pretty damn quickly. No magic/mysterious conspiracy here, but rather it is the interaction of our good old friends, supply and demand.
The free-market system will adapt to the profits to be made and increase the available supply for the above goods/services, but it takes time to ramp up programs, especially when petroleum engineering professors are getting mondo job offers at quadruple their present salaries...
I think we will see a ramp up of production over the coming years, but that ramp up will be more than met by increasing demand.
Last edited by RandomGuy; 04-28-2008 at 02:20 PM. Reason: grammar
We'll see oil prices stabilize and even drop as soon as the dollar regains it's strength. Oil has become a safe haven against the weak dollar....all those recent interest rate cuts by the fed killed the dollar.
You want gas prices to stabilze? Prop up the dollar and hope those mortgages start getting paid.
Yes, dollar neglect is a likely factor.
What is the role of environmental regulations and activism in driving up the cost of oil?
"It is inevitable"
World govts should take all food and oil commodities out of the specullators' hands. OPEC says they don't control the price of oil nows, the speculators do.
The oil price in US now is being held down by the oilcos to protect the Repugs and McCain. ie, they are eating margin to keep the price rise down, but still:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/01/news...xxon_earnings/
Are the oil producers saying the rise in oil to $120 is due to limits on supply?
I concur. I am with the school of thought that thinks the Fed is VERY close to being done with interest rate cuts, aka "one and done", for quite some time.
I don't think there is any need to "prop up" the dollar, if such a thing is even feasible.
You have completely lost your mind as well as the ability to reason thru an arguement.
The oilcos are not holding down the price...if anything, they are underproducing to prop up the price of fuel and burn through their winter inventory as they begin their expensive change over to summer gasoline.
Dont forget....exxon makes more money because it moves more money. The profit margin stays roughly the same, but if you sell a gallon of gas for 2 dollars one week and make 8%, then if the price goes up to 4 dollars next week, that 8% is going to yield more money.
I don't think there is anything to be done to prop up the dollar either, other than stop the rate cuts and stop undercutting it.
Wait a minute..that's the same thing you said about $4 gas less than 2 years ago and here we are...My best guess as to when we will see $10 gas is about 15 years down the road.
"all those recent interest rate cuts by the fed killed the dollar."
"recent" must go back a long time.
The Fed cutting rates and pumping out $$ fueled the mortgage boom. Guilty lenders are currently viciously fighting all regulation of their business. They'd like to stay with borrower's "stated income" rather than 2 years' IRS/CC/bank statements.
dubya's "boom" was absolutley nothing but a boom in US and personal debt, not real growth. Like everything else dubya touches, it all turned to .
Yeah...it does go back a long time. But the dollar was able to absorb the cuts for years while slowly eroding. Now, it doesn't seem to have the capacity to take a punch anymore and the recent cuts have been pummeling it.
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