OK, I don't get that.
That's why I said it was a back-handed compliment. Why even mention Vlade's mistake if not to remind readers that Horry was simply lucky? Yes, Kareem, if Vlade hadn't screwed up Horry wouldn't have been in a position to make the big shot. Point being . . . ?
I see Kareem casting that particular achievement as a sort of Forest Gump moment. Obviously the remark is not a big deal and, to be fair, he is more generous in the comments that followed, but it seems sort of lame.
[QUOTE=slowchild25;2490629]From Kareems blog "He seems to thrive on rare opportunities. Every time he gets it he does something great with it." That's not taking a big crap on Horry's clutchness or the shot,From the OP:]no where does he say Horry was lucky to make the shot
From the American Heritage dictionary:
for·tu·nate (fôrch-nt)
adj.
2. Having unexpected good fortune; lucky. See Synonyms at happy.
n.
From the Collins Essential English Dictionary:
fortunate
Adjective
1. having good luck
2. occurring by good luck
fortunately adv
Now either you can admit you were lying, or you can admit you were ignorant of the definition of fortunate...but either way, a retraction on your part is on order.
And by the way...unless you are going to pay me for edcuating you...I am not going to argue with someone who is arguing because they don't know what an oft used word means...that's not my problem, that's your problem. I've got better things to do with my life than succeed where your teachers failed...
If anything he says it was luck...and he says is quite stupidly.if anything he only says that if Vlade does his job Horry never gets that opportunity.
Because Vlade didn't do his job Horry made that shot?
Do you realize the mountainous level of stupidity behind that statement?
Do you realize that statement could be applied to nearly every shot in history? If someone had been doing their job, that should would not have been made.
That's an incredibly stupid statement...on his part, and yours.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!
So you crap on Kareem for having good teamates when Horry has probably never been better than the 4th option on every team he's been a part of? You bring up Oscar Robertson and Magic but Horry's had the benefit of playing with some of the best big men in NBA history Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan. Has he hit some big shots? yea.
I can't believe you just pulled the ty teamates card in favor of Kareem Adbul ing Jabbar...my god.
What's your next great? About the poor impoverished(let me know if you need this definition) USA?
Seriously...I realize watching basketball in May is a new experience for you...and your enthusiasm is cute even...but nontheless, as you become more knowledgable about the game, the statement you just made will become more and more embarrasing to you.
Did I claim he did?But has he ever carried his team to an NBA championship?
Robert Horry belongs in the same corner as the John Paxson and Steve Kerr's of the world.
More abject stupidity on your part...
<p></p>
<p>whattt? Are you seriously trying to say that when Kareem was the best player on the team, he always missed the playoffs?</p>
I think there is a little bit of Homerism in this thread. It's frickin' Kareem, who cares! it's up for interpretation. You guys jump at the opportunity to perceive slights. Although I agree Kareem, may not be the most "excited" about Horry surpassing him, he's human, I think maybe Kareem could be faulted for not writing a swimmingly, gushing piece about Horry, while still intending to give some awkward props.
Robert has been around because he understands how the game evolves over the 48 minutes. He knows how to do the right thing at the right time. He always seems to be at the right place at the right time to help his team win.I read that as Kareem not ting on his career moment, since he picked that one as his favorite right? but pointing out the difference between the High IQ, alert players like Horry, v. Divac's blunder -anti-clutchness.If he tries to control that rebound and smothers it, Robert Horry doesn’t get that chance. So I attribute that one to Vlade Divac not understanding what he needed to do.
Also, don't know if you can read this as a slight, since it's pretty much what it is.
His regular season stats suck, and that's what most people look at in hall of fame/career consideration. It's awkwardly phrased, but if you reversed it, it's pretty much what most Horry fans saying. His regular season doesn't speak justice on what Horry's success as an NBA player has been.As far as the Hall of Fame goes, you have to look at the whole career. His career in the playoffs has been remarkable. You look at the regular season, you might come to a different conclusion, but you can’t take away his success.
Anyway the last line was pretty much an unnecessary throwaway
but Kareem is arguably one of the top 2 center/big men of all-time, why should he be insecure? And probably the best college player ever.
Maybe he's a little "threatened" by Horry overtaking him, but I don't think it's as much as some are implying. Longevity is pretty much something to be proud of since it's attributed to intelligence (and of course luck from avoiding career ending injuries)
Anyway, I usually like Kareem's writing/commentary, since he' seems like a sharp dude, but he's not known for being the most personable guy. So I give him a pass. At least he wrote some kind of 'nod' about it. He could have not wrote anything at all.
lol at everyone fighting over this, Robert is going to pass him so good for him, and if person A agrees with what Kareem said why does person B feel the need to change there mind. Let it be, did Kareem's words harm you or Robert physically? No. so lets move on
I got my eye on a championship, not a playoff streak.
Where Kareem makes an ass of himself and all who support him...
Is when he implies that his setting of that record is more important than Horry because he somehow cashed in more of chances in fewer opportunities...
Robert Horry is the guy who maxed his opportunities...so if that's the difference Kareem is stating in his favor...he's actually arguing that Horry's setting of that record is more relevant than his own...he's just too stupid to realize it.
Horry is the definition of got the max out of his opportunities.
His teams have won more championships than Karreem's.
His teams have made the playoffs at a 100% rate.
His teams have advanced at a 100% rate.
He's played fewer seasons.
End of argument...Kareem loses, and so do all who support him.
I'm saying definitely missed the playoffs as the best player on his team...
Something that may or may not be true of Oscar...but definitely isn't true of Magic Johnson.
I'm also saying that I don't necessarily think he was the best player on any of his championship teams.
Magic certainly did better with the Lakers without Kareem than Kareem did with them without Magic.
Kareem basically disrespecting Robert at the moment of Robert breaking Kareem's record. you, Kareem.
"how fortunate he was on that play"
Robert didn't demand the ball, and he made the shot.
"passing my mark for the most games played in the playoffs. But ..." but but but.
Yes, they are facts, but quoting them, by Kareem, at this point, is churlish and unfair.
Kareem made his record his era (career of 20 years).
Robert made his record in his era (career of 14 years, so far)
(while surpassing all other players in Robert's era).
Shame on you, Kareem. You try, but can't take anything away from Robert.
No a retraction is not in order because if you read it he says he is forunate to have the OPPORTUNITY TO SHOOT THE BALL. It was Kareems clumsy way of trying to say Horry is always in the right place at the right time and capitalizes on those opportunities not "Robert Horry is ing Lucky". Maybe instead of posting the definitions of words you can brush up on your reading comprehension.
No I didn't pull out the ty teamates card in favor of Kareem I was pointing out that you have been saying that Kareem got to where he was because of his teamates but for some reason choose to ignore the fact that Horry played with 3 of the top BIG MEN IN HIS ING ERA!!! Again it's all about reading comprehension here.
Then I suggest you take your ass to a thread discussing eyes on championships and not playoff streaks...and let people intested in discussing playoffs streaks discuss them in threads about playoff streaks.
Thanks...don't let the doorknob hitya on the way out.
You lead..we will follow...trust me...we'll be right behind you. No need to look back.
First of all, the idea behind the HOF is that the Hall would bestow fame upon those inducted, not that famous players would be inducted. Or does Penny Hardaway belong in the Hall?It it a HOF career?
Sure...
Hall of Fame
He's definitely famous...
Second of all, let's stop this whole "Horry's teams" phrasing right now. In Houston, they were Hakeem's teams. In LA, they were Shaq's teams. In SA, they are Duncan's teams.
Horry is a unique player who has benefitted from, and contributed to, a lot of great teams. That's worth a footnote and nothing more. I'm glad he's played here, but there are scores of players throughout history with more value. If you've got a championship caliber team, his value increases - which means Horry has had the good sense to follow around some of the all-time greats. It helps them and it helps him.
No ...it was Kareem's way of saying that was a lucky shot...you are the one with the faulty reading comprehension.
No I didn't pull out the ty teamates card in favor of Kareem I was pointing out that you have been saying that Kareem got to where he was because of his teamates but for some reason choose to ignore the fact that Horry played with 3 of the top BIG MEN IN HIS ING ERA!!! Again it's all about reading comprehension here.
No...it's about the fact that you don't what ing fortunate means or are too stupid to understand that he was attributing that shot to Vlade's error and not Horry's clutchness.
He was doing it...you're wrong...I'm right.
One more time:
It would be just as accurate if he said this:
You know why he said fortunate instead of lucky? Because he knew the stupid people wouldn't get it...and there are more of them.
He called it a lucky shot...he attributed it to an error on the part of Divac. Missing the forest for the trees...how Horry got the ball is not important, lots of guys have gotten the ball in similar situations...few knock the shot down as well as Horry...that's the ing point. And that's why he's Robert Horry...and you're not.
What he said.
He called the events leading up to the shot luck/fortunate not Horry knocking down the shot. He wasn't trying to diminish what Horry did. Like I said earlier, he was trying to point out that Horry has been in the right place at the right time in his career and has maximized those chances when he gets them. We are pretty much saying the same thing in that regard! I AGREE WITH YOU on that point. I'm just saying that doesn't necessarily make Horry HOF worthy or the fact that Horry has more rings some how makes him more important than the likes of Kareem and MJ.
Last edited by slowchild25; 05-13-2008 at 02:17 PM.
you are just super piss that not everyone shares what you think. Is it hard to believe that no matter what you say, the supports are not gonna change there mind because you made some points on the subject.
When I think of Robert Horry, I remember him hitting big shots.
But also I remember him in '05 stealing that ball against the Nuggets in game three, then hitting the three to pretty much seal the win.
Then he does the exact same thing to them again in '07.
Of course, against Detroit, he hits the game winner in game five of the '05 Finals. But it's all the other things he did in the 4th Qtr and overtime which is blazed in my memory.
I will always remember game two of the '07 Finals when he had five block shots.
And that great block he had against Shaq in the 1st Round of the playoffs.
He isn't a one dimensional player like Steve Kerr or John Paxon. He has altered games, careers, and championships, not only with his big shots, but also his knack for doing the little things his team needs at the right time. Something I think even TD has learned from him.
Absolutely
100%
wrong.
That is not the stated purpose of the HOF...you may wish it was...but it simply isn't. And frankly...the lack of an intellectual spark in your argument has become a huge source of annoyance to me...
From the website of the HOF, their mission statement:
To honor and celebrate basketball's greatest moments and people
See...what you want, is the HO of met statistical benchmarks.
The HO bored less
The HO no one gives a because people don't go to games to see PPG averages.
And furthermore:
Guidelines For Nomination and Election Into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame
ELIGIBILITY
Candidates must meet the following requirements in order to be eligible for Enshrinement into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame (hereafter BHOF):
Player: A player must be fully retired for five years before being eligible for Enshrinement. He/she may then be considered for Enshrinement in the sixth year of retirement. Should a player come out of retirement for a short period of time, as defined by the BHOF, his/her case and eligibility for Enshrinement shall be reviewed on an individual basis.
Coach: A coach must be either fully retired for five years or, if still an active coach, have coached as either a fulltime assistant or head coach on the high school and/or college and/or professional level for a minimum of 25 years. That person will then be considered for Enshrinement in the sixth year of retirement or 26th year of active coaching.
Referee: A referee must be fully retired for five years or, if still an active referee, have been an active referee for a minimum of 25 years. That person will then be considered for Enshrinement in the sixth year of retirement or 26th year of refereeing.
Contributor: A person is eligible for Enshrinement as a contributor at any time for significant contributions to the game of basketball. What cons utes a "significant contribution" shall be determined by the BHOF, its Screening Committee(s) or Honors Committee(s).
NOMINATION PROCESS
A Nomination Packet consists of a completed nomination form procured from the BHOF, and news clippings, magazine articles or other informative, factual data about the candidate. This material shall be submitted to the president and CEO of the BHOF by October 31. All nominees with completed nomination materials are presented to the appropriate Screening Committee for review.
This material shall be submitted to the President and CEO of the BHOF during the period beginning October 1 and ending Dec 2. All nominees with completed nomination materials are presented to the appropriate Screening Committee for review.
SCREENING COMMITTEES
There are four Screening Committees: 1. North American; 2. Women; 3. Veterans (an individual whose career ended 35 years before his/her current consideration); and 4. International. These Committees will review and recommend individuals to be reviewed for Enshrinement by the Honors Committee. The North American Committee consists of nine members. The Women's, International, and Veteran's Screening Committees are each composed of seven members. To advance to the Honors Committee, an individual requires a minimum number of affirmative votes from the applicable Screening Committee (North American: at least 7 of 9; all others at least 5 of 7). If an individual does not receive a single affirmative vote for three consecutive years (0-27 or 0-21) that person's candidacy is suspended for five years after which time he/she may again start the process of being reviewed by a Screening Committee. There is no limitation on the number of years a person can be considered for Enshrinement by a Screening Committee unless that person does not receive a single vote for three consecutive years. Screening Committees may put forth a maximum number of finalists to the Honors Committee as follows: North American 10; all others 2.
RESPONSIBILITY OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES
After the vote of the Screening Committees, those candidates who are recommended to be put forth to the Honors Committee will first be reviewed by the BHOF Board of Trustees. At this time, should it be determined by the Board of Trustees that an individual has damaged the integrity of the game of basketball, he or she shall be deemed not worthy of Enshrinement and removed from consideration.
HONORS COMMITTEE
The purpose of the Honors Committee is to review carefully a candidate's basketball record before casting a vote in favor of Enshrining the person into the BHOF. There are 24 people on each of the four Honors Committees. They include Hall of Famers, basketball executives, media members and other contributors to the game. A core group of 12 people sit on all four committees. Twelve specialists are then added to the International Committee while 12 others are added to the Women's Committee. Twelve other specialists review both the Veterans Committee and the North American Committee. These specialists have an intimate understanding of the specific category of play considered by their committee. A person needs a minimum of 18 votes from an Honors Committee to be Enshrined into the BHOF.
If the Honors Committee has not elected a candidate for five consecutive years, the person's candidacy will be suspended for five years and will not be considered during this time. Following this five-year period, the candidate will be eligible to be reconsidered by the appropriate Screening Committee.
For additional information about the election process or to receive a nomination form, please contact the Basketball Hall of Fame at (413) 781-6500 or make a formal nomination form request via fax at 413-781-1939.
Do you see any sort of statistical requirements for eligibility? For induction? Any sort of trophy quota?
What do you see...players and moments...and while you may have a shred of an argument on whether or not Horry is a memorable player(and he is), you aint got a ing leg to stand on when it comes to Horry and the "moments" criteria...for you see, Horry may have no peer when it comes to moments.
Because that's what he does is moments...and that's what people go to the games for...that's what they remember.
No one sits in front of a hoop as a kid and dreams of averaging 20ppg and 10rpg...they dream of hitting the shot...and that's what Horry does you see.
They dream of winning championships...and that too, is what Horry does you see.
In fact...even the HOFers dream of winning championships...like Robert Horry does.
not that famous players would be inducted. Or does Penny Hardaway belong in the Hall?
Who is Penny Hardaway? You have an odd definition of fame...tell me one memorable thing he is famous for on the basketball court.
However I assure you...fame matters, it's the #1 aid to getting into the Hall.
Horry's teams.
Second of all, let's stop this whole "Horry's teams" phrasing right now. In Houston, they were Hakeem's teams. In LA, they were Shaq's teams. In SA, they are Duncan's teams.
Horry's teams.
Horry's teams.
Horry's teams.
Horry's teams.
If he played for them...they were his team...perhaps you should figure out the English Language before attempting HOF arguments? Just a thought.
As for me...I don't claim being economic with words to be any sort of great importance to me...however, I reserve the right to do so at times, at my leisure, not yours, and this is one of those times.
Horry is a unique player who has benefitted from, and contributed to, a lot of great teams. That's worth a footnote and nothing more.
Absolutely ing not...the goal of a player, excuse me, the team, the primoridial goal, is to win a championship...not meet statistical benchmarks.
And it's a team game...every player that has ever won a championship had help doing it.
That is the most assinin backasswards argument I have ever read.
More? Like who?I'm glad he's played here, but there are scores of players throughout history with more value.
Is this the part where you name some guys that didn't win championships?
Can you say for certain that any of Horry's teams would have won a championship in those years without him? No you can't...
And I've seen Horry bail many a superstar's puckering ass out of the fire in the defining moments of championship runs...
Who do you think is hated more in Sacremento, Shaq and Kobe, or Horry?
And that's true of every player in history...
If you've got a championship caliber team, his value increases
- which means Horry has had the good sense to follow around some of the all-time greats. It helps them and it helps him.
You show me the year one guy won a championship, and I will concede you have a non-stupid argument...but that guy doesn't exist, and neither does any sort of validity to your argument.
You need a different Hall...one where you can make up the rules to suit you...and stop trying to do it to the actual Hall.
Last edited by whottt; 05-13-2008 at 03:11 PM.
What a surprise...a person who makes up the rules of the English Language to suit him is a fan of a guy who makes HOF rules to suit him...
Big
ing
Suprise
No...I am pissed because this is a thread about Kareem's comments on Horry and playoff streaks and you are in it ing about people discussing the topic in it, and asking them to stop...
You are a pretentious ass...go police another thread please.
Ok your right a guy that was never even the 4th best player on any NBA team he's ever played on should be in the HOF.
He's still calling it a lucky shot.
Yes he is you idiot...he is saying it happened because Vlade ed up...that's exactly what he is saying. He is saying it would not haveHe wasn't trying to diminish what Horry did.
happened in Vlade hadn't ed up. IOW, he's calling it a lucky shot.
And why's stupid, is because most great shots are the result of someone ing up...in some way.
Like I said earlier, he was trying to point out that Horry has been in the right place at the right time in his career and has maximized those chances when he gets them. We are pretty much saying the same thing in that regard! I AGREE WITH YOU on that point. I'm just saying that doesn't necessarily make Horry HOF worthy or the fact that Horry has more rings some how makes him more important than the likes of Kareem and MJ.
You show me the line on the HOF induction guidelines, their mission statment, anywhere...that dictates that a guy had to be
A. the best plyer on his team.
B. a scorer who scored x points.
C. Won x trophies.
D. Rebound, blocks, blah blah blah.
Or whatever...
You know who scores the most points? The guys who take the most ing shots...that's all it is. BFD.
Stupidly enough...if scoring is your criteria, in actuality the greatest scorer in NBA history was Artis Gilmore...and he's not even in the Hall.
Ok your right a guy that was never even the 4th best player on any NBA team he's ever played on should be in the HOF.
I just posted the induction guidelines...you show me where it says a player had to be X ranked player on his team to make the Hall?
It doesn't...
So tell me...you got one shot for a championship...
Who you want taking it?
Robert Horry? or Chris Webber?
or , even Kevin Garnett?
Robert Horry is an NBA legend...
IF a guy that has a 7ppg scoring average, no MVP's, All Stars, All NBA Teams, is having his HOF worthiness discussed, and frequently I might add...by fans, and other HOF'ers even...all over the NBA and the media...
Then there's absolutely no doubt he should be in.
There are half dozen fan bases in the NBA whose blood runs ing ice cold when they see Horry with the ball as the clock is expiring, or that consider him to have ruined their only chance their NBA dream...and when he spots up for that shot, what they feel, is complete and total fear, fear reserved for only the absolute greatest players in this games history...and Robert Horry is every bit their measure...in that primal moment his nature as player is revealed...he is fearless, he is the slayer, and the rest...well they aren't, mostly...and that's also why he belongs in the HOF.
And you don't realize it yet...because he has done it to your team yet...
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