Calling Out The Refs...

[Jon1798]

Chandler is just a hacker. When you set a pick, you can't throw your elbows into the back of the guys head. Yeah, Parker travels but Paul carries the ball nearly all the time. I noticed that every time Paul fell down, there was a whistle shortly thereafter. Don't tell me that the Hornets didn't get the upside of the calls. Oh yeah----Manu did flop. Trying to tell me that Paul has never done that?

Tyson was covering his junk on the pics. It's almost impossible to do that and throw your elbows out at the same time. The only reason he was called was because Tony didn't see it coming and is half his size, that's a perfectly legal play, even Tony knows it.

And for the rest, I don't know what to say. Ya'll are claiming a loss by the refs while at the same time admitting ya'll get away with all of the same things. Is that the argument?

It was pretty obvious why the Hornets won last night. They outplayed the Spurs, just like the Spurs out played them in game 4. To say anything otherwise is childish.

[Dex]

Pop didn't help anything by showing up Crawford and the refs over a ing double delay of game call. It seemed like immediately after that fiasco, we stopped getting any benefit of the doubt.

Talk about picking your battles, Pop.

And I agree with this sentiment. I hate ing about the officials because every team has to deal with them, but if you're gonna allow for a physical game, you gotta call it the same on both sides. 4 out of 5 of these games have been ridiculously one-sided in favor of the Hornets, and I'm not math guru or anything, but I'm pretty sure that's not half.

[zepn]

There are three separate issues that many people confuse.

The first is whether any NBA game (especially playoff games) are shaded via the referees to help one team beat the other. The second is if there is any reason to discuss it. The third issue is if anything can be done about it.

Only the most hard-core head-in-the-sand types will argue that no NBA game has ever been shaded. There are far too many example for this to be disputed. Many will mistakenly deny it (ironically while confirming it) because "there's nothing you can do about it so just shut-up and play harder" or "stop being a homer" or "it's weak to blame the refs" or "every team's fans think they get robbed". But to state that it has never happened in the past nor will it ever happen again is simply denial.

So, NBA games have been and will be shaded. Is there any reason to discuss it? Well, this is a discussion board so, absolutely. Also, I very seriously doubt that most people would not at least have a discussion if someone was cheating them at cards, or cheating them on their salary, etc. In any case, if you don't want to discuss it then go to a different thread instead of sniping at those that do. Denial of shading is obviously stupid, and not the "don't be a homer" moral high-ground for your evangelizing.

Shading happens and discussing it is appropriate. Can anything be done about it? By us? Probably not, other than to point out obvious examples to the NBA so the realize that they aren't fooling anyone. On the court, by the teams? I think there could be some quality discussion on this. Most calls will be made in the paint so a team that can hit the outside jumpers will fare better than a team that must drive the lane. On defense I would think denying entry into the lane where the refs can call anything they want, and forcing the other team into jumpers will also result in fewer calls.

[samikeyp]

No calls, no excuses. Take it strong to the rack, and no gay sideways telegraphed oafish finger rolls by Duncan begging to get slammed through the hardwood by even a New Orleans guard.

The Spurs change their at ude in by Game 6 and get aggressive on offense, they'll get calls.

Thank you.

Many here were all over those Hornets fans who dropped the Ref card after Games 3 and 4. You can't call someone out for that....then do the same thing.

Refs don't win or lose games, players do.

Now lets get Game 6.

[VaSpursFan]

whining about the refs is pointless. it's a cir stance you cannot control. The Spurs control how they play and the sooner we realize it's us against the world and play accordingly, the better off we will be. it's time for smashmouth basketball, man up, be ready for contact and play with reckless abandon until you hear a whistle.

[zepn]

Refs don't win or lose games, players do.

Wrong.

In a game of two nearly equal teams giving nearly equal amounts of effort, as in many playoff games, the refs can and often do decide the games.

.

[zepn]

whining about the refs is pointless. it's a cir stance you cannot control. The Spurs control how they play and the sooner we realize it's us against the world and play accordingly, the better off we will be. it's time for smashmouth basketball, man up, be ready for contact and play with reckless abandon until you hear a whistle.

Whining is pointless. Discussion is not.

[Strike]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

pop should have been thrown out of the game for slapping a refs hand

So what should happen to crawford for poking Pop in the chest?

[samikeyp]

Wrong.

In a game of two nearly equal teams giving nearly equal amounts of effort, as in many playoff games, the refs can and often do decide the games.

.

I disagree.

Whining is pointless. Discussion is not.

I do though, agree with that.

[samikeyp]

So what should happen to crawford for poking Pop in the chest?

If a player or coach would have done that, they would have been suspended. I think the same punishment should apply.

[Jon1798]

There are a lot of logical, true basketball people on this board, so I won't be too harsh, but some of you are such homers. It's funny.

What were the scores? 18, 19 and 21 or something like that. I could list no short of 10 BLATANT plays that the Spurs got away with just last night. And most won't or can't even argue it. I've listed a few already, how about when West drives on Duncan and Duncan bumps him behind the backboard, and then hits his arm as he comes around the other side, and no call. That's not physical defense? What did Duncan have, one, maybe two fouls? Probably no more than 3 in any game the whole series.

This whole series every time Duncan drives the ball it's a foul, and 1. How many times did he drive the ball last night, and does anyone really think his shots that were blocked weren't clean?

Everyone knows Manu flops, Manu runs with the ball, Parker travels, Parker was on the ground 5 times crying in the first half alone and didn't even have one red mark.

Anyone remember the back to back blatant over the backs, ending with Duncan going over Tyson's head to get a rebound. Duncan could have been sitting the bench like they made Tyson.

But no, some of you are upset about losing, so have to find some reason why you were cheated, cause god forbid you just actually lost to a good team. I have no problem saying the Hornets lost to a VERY good Spurs team in SA, and they did not show up at all for game 4. Is it so difficult to swallow that the Spurs took a whooping? Cause it's happened 3 times, and the excuses are getting old fast.

[ether]

I think some of you guys need to chill with complaining about the refs so much. As a fan with no particular rooting interests in this series, (I'm a knick fan) I can honestly tell you that I feel both teams have gotten their fair (or unfair) share of awful calls in this series. There have been times where I've thought bruce bowen has mugged Peja (the best FT shooter in the league and gotten away with it) and other times where I thought Tim Duncan was clearly fouled in the act of shooting and nothing was called (last night in particular). The point is that these are intense playoff games and the refs are not going to get every call right. However, there are two rather important realities to grasp here:

1) Generally speaking, bad calls even out over the course of a long series. It's just a statistical verity. Unless you are one of these morons who actually believes the NBA instructs their refs to favor one team or another , (and if you believe this you are a culturally paranoid person and should talk to a mental healthcare professional soon) then you reailze that some calls go your way and others don't and that is just the way life is.

2) In the three games the spurs have lost this series, they have lost by an average of 20 points. As we all know, they have had small leads at halftime and have been completely obliterated in the second half of each game. In other words, they haven't been compe ive down the stretch and NO GAME IN THIS SERIES has come down to a bad call (or even 5 bad calls for that matter). Once you realize this fundamental truth, you realize how utterly silly it is to be complaining about the refs.

Finally, I want to reiterate that I do not have a rooting interest in this series. I just love the NBA and have tremendous respect for the spurs and their dominance these last ten years. I also think Tim Duncan is an all time great player and is one of my personal favorites because he's always played the game the right way.( You can make an argument that he is the best defensive big man of all time - maybe with the exception of Bill Russel. ) Also, I do believe the spurs can still win this series but it's going to be tough. We've all underestimated the hornets. They are quite good and have a wonderful future. Good luck spurs fans.

[zepn]

If you do not believe the NBA has ever had the referee's shade a game then you are incredibly naive. They have done it, they are doing it, and they will do it in the future. Given the choice between fair compe ion or higher profits, which do you think they will choose?

Never forget that the NBA is a BUSINESS whose product is ENTERTAINMENT. Did you see any mention of "sport" or "fair play" in that sentence? No. They only give lip-service to that notion to the extent that it would damage their BUSINESS if they didn't.

It is easy for them to make the calls even-out over the course of a series, or even a game, and still manipulate the outcome. Case in point: every third quarter in New Orleans. When the Spurs played "aggressively" they were immediately called for fouls and quickly stopped playing "aggressively". When the Hornets played "aggressively" the Spurs were called for fouls and the Hornets continued playing "aggressively". Each game had been a very close match until then.

Also, don't you find it interesting that the NBA can publish the complete schedule of NBA games months in advance, but they can't manage to publish the refs until the day before? Once again, if you don't think certain referees are selected for certain games for certain reasons you are incredibly naive.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's weak sauce to blame officiating on the outcome of any game -- and particularly a game decided by 15+ points like last night's was. Were there some calls that went against the Spurs? Sure. Did those calls cost them the game? I'm hard-pressed to believe that those calls would have inflated a poor shooting percentage or instilled aggressiveness that was completely absent from the Spurs performance in Game 5. On top of that, it's faulty to assume that all of the missed calls would have been favorable to the Spurs; a better officiated game might have benefitted New Orleans in other ways as well.

Were the officials bad and inconsistent last night? I thought they were. Did that decide the game? Absolutely not.

If you want to win, score more points; play better defense; be more aggressive; play through the calls. The Spurs did none of those things last night. They deserved to lose that game.

[zepn]

It's weak sauce to blame officiating on the outcome of any game

I'm not sure what your definition of "sauce" is, and I won't lose sleep over what you think of mine, but I will repeat my contention that it is incredibly naive of anyone to think the NBA does not shade certain playoff games/series. It has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen.

[samikeyp]

I'm not sure what your definition of "sauce" is, and I won't lose sleep over what you think of mine, but I will repeat my contention that it is incredibly naive of anyone to think the NBA does not shade certain playoff games/series. It has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen.

and I will repeat my contention that players control their own destinies. Just because you think its naive to think the other way doesn't actually make it so. and vice versa.

This is an argument with no winners. We can move on or continue beating the dead horse.

[zepn]

it's faulty to assume that all of the missed calls would have been favorable to the Spurs

I never said ALL of the missed calls would have favored the Spurs. Some referees certainly possess the ability to be incompetent as well as corrupt, as it would be counterproductive for them to miss calls against the team they were attemting to hinder.

[samikeyp]

Some referees certainly possess the ability to be incompetent

now THAT I agree with!

[zepn]

and I will repeat my contention that players control their own destinies. Just because you think its naive to think the other way doesn't actually make it so. and vice versa.

This is an argument with no winners. We can move on or continue beating the dead horse.

Let's beat this one a bit longer.

So you think refs have never shaded a game? Ever? Seriously?

[samikeyp]

Let's beat this one a bit longer.

So you think refs have never shaded a game? Ever? Seriously?

I can't say because I have no proof. I have seen refs miss calls but have not seen any evidence that a pre-mediated effort was made to intentionally make bad calls or miss correct ones in order to help determine the outcome of a game.

[ballhog]

There are a lot of logical, true basketball people on this board, so I won't be too harsh, but some of you are such homers. It's funny.

What were the scores? 18, 19 and 21 or something like that. I could list no short of 10 BLATANT plays that the Spurs got away with just last night. And most won't or can't even argue it. I've listed a few already, how about when West drives on Duncan and Duncan bumps him behind the backboard, and then hits his arm as he comes around the other side, and no call. That's not physical defense? What did Duncan have, one, maybe two fouls? Probably no more than 3 in any game the whole series.

This whole series every time Duncan drives the ball it's a foul, and 1. How many times did he drive the ball last night, and does anyone really think his shots that were blocked weren't clean?

Everyone knows Manu flops, Manu runs with the ball, Parker travels, Parker was on the ground 5 times crying in the first half alone and didn't even have one red mark.

Anyone remember the back to back blatant over the backs, ending with Duncan going over Tyson's head to get a rebound. Duncan could have been sitting the bench like they made Tyson.

But no, some of you are upset about losing, so have to find some reason why you were cheated, cause god forbid you just actually lost to a good team. I have no problem saying the Hornets lost to a VERY good Spurs team in SA, and they did not show up at all for game 4. Is it so difficult to swallow that the Spurs took a whooping? Cause it's happened 3 times, and the excuses are getting old fast.

Took a whooping? The game was pretty close most of the way. A blowout is when the other team is up 20 in the first half and stays there or increases. Just because they put some at the end, doesn't make it blowout, moron. The Spurs lost, not because of the refs, but because the Hornets wanted it more. Was there bad officiating.....yes. Almost a whole quarter of playoff basketball not getting into the penalty.....a joke. Joey Crawford should not be reffing playoff games for a while.

[zepn]

I can't say because I have no proof. I have seen refs miss calls but have not seen any evidence that a pre-mediated effort was made to intentionally make bad calls or miss correct ones in order to help determine the outcome of a game.

You CAN say because you have an opinion.

Nobody, especially the NBA with an attorney at the top, is going to hand you folder detailing their illegal behavior.

Here are a couple of quick, obvious examples: You didn't see the 2006 Finals? And maybe it's not NBA top-down related, but if Tim Donaghy was not throwing calls why was he useful to the gambling interests?

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm not sure what your definition of "sauce" is, and I won't lose sleep over what you think of mine, but I will repeat my contention that it is incredibly naive of anyone to think the NBA does not shade certain playoff games/series. It has happened, it is happening, and it will continue to happen.

Honestly, if I believed any of that, I'd stop watching the NBA.

[Get Buzzin]

Get over it! Don't depend on the refs to bail your slow sorry team out of a hole they put themselves into

Game 6: The Hornets are going to run the Spurs all night. Duncan, Manu, Bowen, Parker, Thomas are going to be huffin' and puffin' for air

[zepn]

Let's be clear, I am not arguing that your favorite team or player may or may not be able to overcome corrupt officiating.

I am arguing that corrupt officiating exists.

Does anyone here seriously not believe that statement is true?