Calling Out The Refs...

[zepn]

But just in even years, right?

Whenever the powers that be perceive the benefit is larger than the cost. Very few games are outright "thrown" like in the 2006 Finals. Most are "shaded" just enough to make it very difficult for one team to win. But that doesn't mean they CAN'T win.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Whenever they perceive the benefit is larger than the cost.

So putting the 43rd-53rd TV market in the WCF outweighs losing all credibility as a professional sports en y?

I think you nailed it.

[zepn]

So putting the 43rd-53rd TV market in the WCF outweighs losing all credibility as a professional sports en y?

I think you nailed it.

Uh, no.

I don't think the NBA cares who wins the Spurs/Hornets series as long as it goes to seven games and they beat each other up badly enough to give the Lakers their best shot at advancing.

David Stern famously said his dream match-up in the Finals would be the Lakers vs. the Lakers. What a . Guess he was just showing some of that "credibility" you were talking about...

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Uh, no.

I don't think the NBA cares who wins the Spurs/Hornets series as long as it goes to seven games and they beat each other up badly enough to give the Lakers their best shot at advancing.

David Stern famously said his dream match-up in the Finals would be the Lakers vs. the Lakers. What a .

Oh, gotcha. And letting the Jazz win a few games is just a front right? And telling Kobe to act like he has a bad back?

Pure genius.

Wag the Dog II: Electric Boogaloo?

[Cry Havoc]

So putting the 43rd-53rd TV market in the WCF outweighs losing all credibility as a professional sports en y?

I think you nailed it.

If the Tim Donaghy scandal wasn't enough to seriously damage the NBA's reputation when there was CLEAR evidence of tampering, I seriously doubt some dubious officiating is going to do anything to worsen or help the league's image.

[Brutalis]

The home teams get away with calls and in this series.

NO at home has more of an advantage as SA at home. I don't care what noob or reg thinks different, if you watched the ing games it's clear. Oberto knocked clean to the floor... Parker hammered in the lane yet Paul gets the calls with lesser contact?

You are frankly a dumb ass if you don't think SA got shafted last night. They did.

However our play on the court wouldn't have made the difference in the score regardless.

Therefor it's easy for idiots to say, Spurs just didn't show up. Well no ing they didn't show up, but they got it handed to them on a silver platter all game long by that bald .

Tired of the good guy coy. We don't always have to just deal. It's okay sometimes you know. We don't always NOT get screwed. It's okay to admit it for once.

SA got home court calls at home. But NO gets away with murder. And the Spurs just shut down soon after.

No more stupid about being lazy and not playing with fire and bull . Kinda hard to when you're not allowed to begin with.

[Spurs Brazil]

I think the refs are fine in this series

If you want to see how bad a ref can do go watch the Mavs series in 06. That year the refs killed us

[manufor3]

Delaney and Kennedy were pathetic.

Javie was fantastic though.

Delaney and Kennedy were trying to impose their will in that third quarter for some reason.

Delany Donohay!

[zepn]

Oh, gotcha. And letting the Jazz win a few games is just a front right? And telling Kobe to act like he has a bad back?

We have already been over this. Why don't you read the other posts before rehashing it?

Ref's don't shade every game. They don't even shade most games, only a few select ones that might make a difference. And as has already been stated that does not mean that the team that is being shaded against will not win, or the Spurs and Pistons would have never made the finals.

They would obviously prefer Kobe to be healthy so why would they want him to act like he has a bad back?

[spurscenter]

There are three separate issues that many people confuse.

The first is whether any NBA game (especially playoff games) are shaded via the referees to help one team beat the other. The second is if there is any reason to discuss it. The third issue is if anything can be done about it.

Only the most hard-core head-in-the-sand types will argue that no NBA game has ever been shaded. There are far too many example for this to be disputed. Many will mistakenly deny it (ironically while confirming it) because "there's nothing you can do about it so just shut-up and play harder" or "stop being a homer" or "it's weak to blame the refs" or "every team's fans think they get robbed". But to state that it has never happened in the past nor will it ever happen again is simply denial.

So, NBA games have been and will be shaded. Is there any reason to discuss it? Well, this is a discussion board so, absolutely. Also, I very seriously doubt that most people would not at least have a discussion if someone was cheating them at cards, or cheating them on their salary, etc. In any case, if you don't want to discuss it then go to a different thread instead of sniping at those that do. Denial of shading is obviously stupid, and not the "don't be a homer" moral high-ground for your evangelizing.

Shading happens and discussing it is appropriate. Can anything be done about it? By us? Probably not, other than to point out obvious examples to the NBA so the realize that they aren't fooling anyone. On the court, by the teams? I think there could be some quality discussion on this. Most calls will be made in the paint so a team that can hit the outside jumpers will fare better than a team that must drive the lane. On defense I would think denying entry into the lane where the refs can call anything they want, and forcing the other team into jumpers will also result in fewer calls.

well said partna

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Would it make you feel better if I think that Stern talked to the officials about giving the home team the benefit of the doubt in playoff games this year?

*edit* For the record, a friend of mine who's a Bulls fan says he's disgusted with the officiating overall in the playoffs this year.

Think about it.

The most hyped playoffs since Jordan.

The deepest West EVER.

Round 1 completely dominated by the top 4 seeds, against what some analysts said would contain at least 3 or 4 game 7's between the two conferences.

And then all of a sudden, we have home teams in the 2nd round go 17-1.

Do you really think it's a coincidence?

I'll be the first to admit the Spurs get favorable officiating at home, which is even more exacerbated in these playoffs.

Officials are swallowing their whistles when the home team has the ball, and calling ticky tack fouls on the other end.

This is happening in EVERY GAME.

17-1.

Spurs just went from a 20 point blowout to a 23 point spanking in the opposite direction.

Now, obviously some of it is the players.

And some of it says that 17-1 is just too handy of a coincidence for the League. Just too much money to be made out there for this to work so conveniently in the NBAs favor.

Does this mean that the Spurs couldnt have beaten the Hornets last night if their intensity had been about 47 notches higher? No. It was a very winnable game.

Does it also mean that a ref can very easily handcuff a team into playing a much less physical style of defense with just a couple of calls? Absolutely.

These teams are relatively evenly matched. A couple of calls can build momentum.

And there is no way you can convince me that 17-1 is just "chance". There aren't even odds to support the home team winning that often.

And not just winning, but destroying the visiting team. And then the very next game they themselves are dismantled. So we either have a situation where the home court has in the course of a single playoffs (between rounds, no less!) become so much of a factor that it completely controls every game except one, or there is something else at work here.

Myself? I believe it's a combination. I think the home teams are bringing more intensity to the game, and by the same token I think the refs are allowing the home teams in EVERY series to be more physical, get away with touch fouls, and generally look the other way to please the crowd. It makes sense in a business strategy. Push the games to at least 6 and THEN tell the refs to back off.

This is to your last sentence: How would you explain no foul call on the Hedo drive in G4? Magic down 1 with a few seconds left, plenty of contact and Max probably had a foot in the semi circle.

Opportunity was there, why didn't they make the call?

[zepn]

well said partna

Thanks Spurscenter!

And thanks also to Spurs50 for the kind words!

[Cry Havoc]

This is to your last sentence: How would you explain no foul call on the Hedo drive in G4? Magic down 1 with a few seconds left, plenty of contact and Max probably had a foot in the semi circle.

Opportunity was there, why didn't they make the call?

18-0. Yeah, that would definitely look convincing for a 2nd round playoff tree.

[spurscenter]

guys watching

Lakers vs Utah

Game is close , 4 points

and the refs are showing up all of a sudden, whistle happy.

3 consecutive no calls against the lakers (obvious fouls on boozer), and then all calls for lakers on the other end (touch fouls)

then the foul on Andrei K. by the far end ref when the ball went of Vujacic leg. its was so obvious.

lakers now up 8 points when Utah got to 3.

Bull Refs.

If it wasnt for the 3 pointer by Deron, this would be 12 point game.

something is going on guys.

[spurscenter]

The Joey Crawford Effect


SPURS FT ATTEMPTS

SAN ANTONIO
GAME 1 - 21
GAME 2 - 19
GAME 3 - 21
GAME 4 - 20
GAME 5 - 18

Pretty Consistent Huh,?

Then New Orleans
GAME 1 - 15
GAME 2 - 24
GAME 3 - 21
GAME 4 - 12
GAME 5 - 33

lol

Buck Harvey: Popovich joins the crowd; as he always preached, it won't matter

Gregg Popovich has crossed over into the land of George Karl and Phil Jackson. Give him another week, and he might wad up a stat sheet, as Mike D'Antoni once did at a postgame press conference in San Antonio, and hurl it in anger.

Popovich is now referring to how many free throws the Hornets shot compared with the Spurs, and by doing so he's complaining and sending out a message.

Popovich never believed this between-game spin worked. So what changed?

Ultimately, he did.

Popovich has always felt the same frustration that Karl, Jackson and others have before. Maybe he just can't hold it in anymore.

He did two years ago, the last time the Spurs came home facing elimination. A delay-of-game call was part of that equation, too.

Bavetta stuck the Spurs with their second delay in Game 4 in Dallas, resulting in a technical foul and free throw. The Spurs were also standing at the free-throw line then, and the opponent was also shooting. Then, however, the call came with just 3:43 left in the game.

One point mattered. The Spurs lost in overtime.

Popovich was still upset about the previous loss in Dallas. Then a ref whistled a sixth foul on Tim Duncan when Dirk Nowitzki drove and stepped on Duncan's foot.

The ref was Joey Crawford.

The Spurs complained through official channels then, as they likely did this week. But publicly Popovich stopped short in 2006.

“Let me just say that some things at the end of games are in the teams' control and some things aren't in the teams' control,” Popovich said at the time. “And it's best to probably concentrate on what can be controlled by us.”

That had always been Popovich's creed. He believed in what Jerry Sloan believed, that blaming refs only provides an out for the players. Popovich won four championships this way.

Popovich has always tried to limit his players from complaining on the court, too. Earlier this season, when Manu Ginobili kept arguing with a ref, Popovich told Ginobili to shut up and sit down.

Now Ginobili is the one more upset with how the Spurs played Tuesday. He was visibly angry after the game — and not because of the calls in the third quarter.

At least Ginobili learned his lesson from earlier in the season. “We talked too much,” Ginobili said of Game 5. “We've just got to let Pop do that.”

Popovich did enough talking for all of them in New Orleans, and that's nothing new. He has worked the refs during games for a decade.

But then came Wednesday. Composed and sarcastic-free in front of a media group, Popovich sounded as he never has.

“You know, Timmy took 18 shots and shot one free throw,” he said. “They (the Hornets) shot 13 free throws in the third quarter, and we shot zero. I thought we were at the rim as much as they were. So we have got to figure out how to get to the line.”

By the standards of Karl and Jackson, that's tame. None of these words will draw a fine, nor will they make headlines across the country. Furthermore, Popovich made sure to praise the Hornets, which was always part of the previous pattern.

Still, Popovich's approach Wednesday was a dramatic departure, and, knowing Popovich, he had thought this through. He figured, this time, he would make an exception because of Crawford.

This time Duncan didn't need to hear again how he had to ignore the refs. This was Crawford, after all. Popovich likely told himself that, this one time, he would cross over.

But that just made him another guy with a gripe. Other coaches complain for the same reasons, with the same frustrations, with other refs. Popovich's pitch was remarkable only in that it was a first for him.

None of it will matter tonight. The Spurs will win if they are as smart as they were in Game 4, and if Duncan is as active and as decisive as he was then. The Spurs will win if they play defense and rebound and attack, not because of a few words said in front of cameras.

Which is what Popovich always said before.

[SPURS50]

The second half of game 5 between the lakers and jazz was a complete joke! The reffing would not allow the jazz to take the lead or get anything going. Cheap touch fouls called on the jazz and non calls on the lakers in the second half. It happened way to often to go unnoticed. One play in particular when i think it was odom dunked the ball and got the +1 in the forth quarter, He wasn't even touched and the whistles are going off! I have a hard time watching games and not just laughing cause it's obvious how bad the ref's have been! Even if the spurs or jazz can force game 7's I don't think there's much chance that you'll see either team advance for the simple fact that the road team's can't play physical. The only chance spurs or jazz have if they force game 7's is if they happen to shoot 50% from the floor and rebound well because they aren't gonna be shooting to many free throws!

I hope i'm wrong though!

[spurscenter]

The second half of game 5 between the lakers and jazz was a complete joke! The reffing would not allow the jazz to take the lead or get anything going. Cheap touch fouls called on the jazz and non calls on the lakers in the second half. It happened way to often to go unnoticed. One play in particular when i think it was odom dunked the ball and got the +1 in the forth quarter, He wasn't even touched and the whistles are going off! I have a hard time watching games and not just laughing cause it's obvious how bad the ref's have been! Even if the spurs or jazz can force game 7's I don't think there's much chance that you'll see either team advance for the simple fact that the road team's can't play physical. The only chance spurs or jazz have if they force game 7's is if they happen to shoot 50% from the floor and rebound well because they aren't gonna be shooting to many free throws!

I hope i'm wrong though!

no, your right

it was utter bull

the minute Utah got to 81-81, the refs were on a mission from stern .

it was amazing how biased theywere to the Lakers.

The jazz were robbed many times

Carlos Boozer was being hacked and no calls. he just laughed.

The NBA is rigged this year more than ever

LAKERS vs CELTICS , book it.

[Jon1798]

So in general, the Spurs shot more free throws than the Hornets up until game 5, and now the Hornets get more free throws and it's a huge conspiracy. Am I the only person that actually watched the game? Tim shot 18 horrible shots. He shot fade aways, 18 footers, he was blocked a few times, and I don't think anyone would question how clean they were.

The Hornets shot so many free throws because they were beating their men. You don't want the Hornets to shoot so many free throws, don't give them BS technical shots, don't pull Chandler down when he's going for a lob, don't turn the ball over so much that Horry has to foul Chris Paul on a fast break, don't PURPOSELY foul Ely and Tyson in order to put them at the line(which even though they do this, the Spurs still have in general shot more foul shots), don't let Chris Paul get into the lane whenever he wants, and try to at least slow down David West.

I love how people use a stat sheet when they have no examples. The Hornets outplayed the Spurs. They beat them all around the court, and that caused the Spurs to foul them. The Spurs didn't deserve the shots they got. Ask Manu and Tony.

[v2freak]

So in general, the Spurs shot more free throws than the Hornets up until game 5, and now the Hornets get more free throws and it's a huge conspiracy. Am I the only person that actually watched the game? Tim shot 18 horrible shots. He shot fade aways, 18 footers, he was blocked a few times, and I don't think anyone would question how clean they were.

The Hornets shot so many free throws because they were beating their men. You don't want the Hornets to shoot so many free throws, don't give them BS technical shots, don't pull Chandler down when he's going for a lob, don't turn the ball over so much that Horry has to foul Chris Paul on a fast break, don't PURPOSELY foul Ely and Tyson in order to put them at the line(which even though they do this, the Spurs still have in general shot more foul shots), don't let Chris Paul get into the lane whenever he wants, and try to at least slow down David West.

I love how people use a stat sheet when they have no examples. The Hornets outplayed the Spurs. They beat them all around the court, and that caused the Spurs to foul them. The Spurs didn't deserve the shots they got. Ask Manu and Tony.

Good job, master of the obvious. Most people are in agreement about the bolded statement. The problem seems to be that some people are so desperate to appear as "good sportsmen" that they refuse to acknowledge what is in front of them. Officiating does not determine the outcome, but it does have a pretty damn big impact.

[Jon1798]

Good job, master of the obvious. Most people are in agreement about the bolded statement. The problem seems to be that some people are so desperate to appear as "good sportsmen" that they refuse to acknowledge what is in front of them. Officiating does not determine the outcome, but it does have a pretty damn big impact.

That's what is so funny. Ya'll agree that the Hornets outplayed the Spurs, yet don't understand why they shot more free throws because of it.

[LakerLanny]

I'm just going to ask you to tone it down a little bit or you may find yourself banned tonight. The hornets won but it wasn't pretty, it wasn't dominant despite the score.

I would use caution if I was you.

Pretty weak to ban a guy for that post.

But I wouldn't put it past an overly touchy fan base.

Bottom line is no team in NBA history benefits from the whistle more than SA and deep down you know it.

Sack up already, you are sounding like JazzFan (who would already be on summer vacation if the refs call the obvious five step travel on Deron Williams at the end of regulation in Game 4)

[Jon1798]

Can anyone explain why the cheating refs gave the Spurs so many calls in game 5? I brought up many of them, does anyone want to take a shot at those?

[LakerLanny]

The second half of game 5 between the lakers and jazz was a complete joke! The reffing would not allow the jazz to take the lead or get anything going. Cheap touch fouls called on the jazz and non calls on the lakers in the second half. It happened way to often to go unnoticed. One play in particular when i think it was odom dunked the ball and got the +1 in the forth quarter, He wasn't even touched and the whistles are going off! I have a hard time watching games and not just laughing cause it's obvious how bad the ref's have been! Even if the spurs or jazz can force game 7's I don't think there's much chance that you'll see either team advance for the simple fact that the road team's can't play physical. The only chance spurs or jazz have if they force game 7's is if they happen to shoot 50% from the floor and rebound well because they aren't gonna be shooting to many free throws!

I hope i'm wrong though!

Give me a break.

Gasol was being fouled two and three times EVERY time he posted, the refs simply refused to whistle it. Meanwhile, they are letting Deron Williams just launch himself into guys for a whistle every time.

How about the ridiculous technical foul Bob Delaney calls on The Machine IN THE LAST TWO MINUTES OF A TIGHT PLAYOFF GAME! Are you ing kidding me? If you are going to call that a technical on The Machine, how in the world is Kevin Garnett not T'd up twice in the first quarter of every game, he is running his mouth the entire game.

NBA officiating isn't just bad, it is clearly biased and every fan base in every city thinks so. I say fire them all and start over with the international/college refs (although Timmy might not like that judging by the last Olympics)

[poo-doe wayne-o]

The Joey Crawford Effect


SPURS FT ATTEMPTS

SAN ANTONIO
GAME 1 - 21
GAME 2 - 19
GAME 3 - 21
GAME 4 - 20
GAME 5 - 18

Pretty Consistent Huh,?

Then New Orleans
GAME 1 - 15
GAME 2 - 24
GAME 3 - 21
GAME 4 - 12
GAME 5 - 33

lol

holy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 your right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in game 1 the spurs had 6 too many

then in game 2 the hornets had 5 too many

game three was the only game that the refs got right

in game 4 the spurs got 8 too many

and in game 5 the hornet got 15 too many.

total for the series:

spurs got 99 so far.
hornets got 105 so far.

you guys are right, its a league agenda.

[spurscenter]

holy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 your right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in game 1 the spurs had 6 too many

then in game 2 the hornets had 5 too many

game three was the only game that the refs got right

in game 4 the spurs got 8 too many

and in game 5 the hornet got 15 too many.

total for the series:

spurs got 99 so far.
hornets got 105 so far.

you guys are right, its a league agenda.

there are many ways the refs dictate the game that does not show up on stat sheet at all.

out of bounds, at what time those calls are made in the game, to make them come back from a 6-8 point lead, or to extend a 2 pt lead.

they show up when they have to. Double Techs, delay on spurs bench, touch fouls suddendly called, etc.

they do a great job to keep the PF equal in every game to cover themselves but if you dont think they dont dictate a pace or a winner if they want to, you are not understanding the history of this league refs. it happens