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this thread is running 2:1 in favor of Duncan. C'mon DD I told you I could have predicted the outcome of your poll on a Spurs board!!
Hakeem the Dream
Duncan the big fundamental
I had to vote Hakeem. I feel really bad however.
It's just I watched Hakeem own David throughout his career, as well as pretty much every center out there including Shaq. The guy was just smooth and had the skill set of a master chess player on the court.
Duncan is right there though, I mean right right there. Just give it to Hakeem cause Duncan is not through yet.
this thread is running 2:1 in favor of Duncan. C'mon DD I told you I could have predicted the outcome of your poll on a Spurs board!!
again...you do know akeem made it to the finals in '86 and his team went thru the showtime lakers in 5? you do know he lost basically that entire team in 2 years to injuries and drugs? yes hakeem developed a more dominant offensive game in the championship years but it's like people only think the guy was a dominant force for 2 years...i will never understand it.
it truly is amazing how the team around a player influences people's opinions of whatever player that may be. if that 80's team was able to stay together then hakeem is regarded as one of the greatest players ever but they didn't so he gets knocked down a few rungs.
nice. whats the second song in that video?
Hakeem.
You post this poll on a Rockets board and you would get the reverse numbers lol.
Oh he was dominant for several years. He was superlative those two seasons though.
It is truly amazing how much fans of other teams get so severely butthurt by my opinions.it truly is amazing how the team around a player influences people's opinions of whatever player that may be. if that 80's team was able to stay together then hakeem is regarded as one of the greatest players ever but they didn't so he gets knocked down a few rungs.
Kanye and Jay-Z: Never Let Me Down
I am with Chump on this one. Based on his prime, Hakeem is maybe the best big man (center of pf) of all time. That prime of his though, didn't last long. Tim has been so good for so long now, even though he has slipped a bit in the reg season, you know what you are getting once the playoffs roll around. Hakeem was still great, but nothing close to what he was those two years. You can say it's because of Jordan that he didn't win again, but never made it to the Finals again eventhough that Rockets team was still relatively compe ive.
For him longevity, I say Duncan.
I'm taking Hakeem because Duncan isn't a PF. Duncan plays the center position and he's not a better center than Hakeem was, therefore I'm taking Hakeem.
LMAO at anyone thinking Duncan plays a power forward.
If any Spurs fans see this get ready for war dude. I agree 100%, but I've already been down that path and it was a lost cause. Good luck, you're going to need it.
I don't care who is better. Duncan is who you build a dynasty around. He is the ultimate team player. It's as simple as that to me.
If I have to play streetball, of course Hakeem. Otherwise, TD.
They both are on my fav team ever...
wow what a gaywad
yeah i was going to change the wording so it didn't sound y but i got lazy
Except that Hakeem shot better from the field and FT line than Duncan (and in an era of much better big man compe ion), defended better, and rebounded better...
Duncan's Spurs were 1-3 against Shaq-Kobe-Phil btw. Destroyed in 2001 and 2002 and then blew a 2-0 lead in 2004.
The reason it's hard to argue Duncan over Hakeem is that Hakeem did everything Duncan did but better. Nice bank shot? I raise you an unstoppable turnaround baseline jumper from 15 feet that was much more accurate and indefensible than any move Duncan had.
Great interior D by Duncan? Hakeem raises you multiple DPOY awards, all time shot block le, and the only big man ever to rank in the top 10 of steals all time.
Duncan's great rebounding? hakeem raises to 3 rebounding les in his career.
Ranking the top big men of the past 20 years:
Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan
The Field...
I am trying to be as objective as possible...I really am. But the "Duncan is the better teammate/leader" quotes are killing me. How good was Duncan this series when another one of the Big 3 (Manu) was playing on a bad wheel? The Spurs just lost this series because they couldn't produce enough offense, all while Duncan is shooting in the low 40's against a frontline of Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. Ponder on that one....Gasol and Odom.
Duncan is great and IMO the best PF ever to play. I am not hating on him for being on very good teams his entire career because that's just how it is sometimes (see Bird, Magic and Shaq). But you guys throw the les out there, and completely disregard the difference in surrounding talent. How can you do that, especially in this season? This season, with Kobe, is a prefect example. Kobe didn't suddenly morph into the best wing in the game...he just got help...and you need help to win. Yeah, Duncan won 1 le with a subpar squad in 02/03. So did Hakeem in 93/94. Yeah, Duncan has 4 rings....but honestly which one of those le teams would not have won a ring with Hakeem there, instead of Duncan.
Hakeem has clearly shown that he can have team success as long as he has a decent supporting cast. He beat the 80's Lakers to get to the Finals in his 2nd season, and lost to a contender for the GOAT team (86 Celtics). It's not his fault that his team fell apart and management sucked ass in getting him help until the early 90's.
The difference between Tim and Hakeem is pure, insane explosive athleticism. It's what seperates most of the great ones from those in GOAT contention. Hakeem was like Howard with skills. Duncan is just as fundamentally sound as Hakeem, but he doesn't have his raw athletic ability...or the sheer power that Shaq did. That's why you can have postseason series where he is being checked by the likes of Gasol, Horry, Wallace, etc. You could not throw those weak ass defenders on Hakeem....he would torch them.
In 2001, LA was checking Duncan with an old Horace Grant and Horry. Duncan shot 48% that series and scored 24 combined points in the last 2 games, as SA got swept.
In 2002 he was being checked by Horry and he shot 42% as SA lost in 5.
In 2004 he was being checked by an old Karla Malone and only shot 47% as they lost in 6...scoring 21 a game.
Sorry, but Hakeem would mop all of those dudes. Y'all say Duncan doesn't score big because he doesn't have to. I agree that he doesn't always have to (hence his solid supporting casts, hence his 4 les), but I don't think he can if he needed to. He surely needed to this series and he didn't. I can't say it enough....y'all lost because you couldn't score enough points...and Duncan is matched up with freaking Gasol and Odom. If he shoots 50% this is a series.
Duncan is as fundamentally sound as they come, but I don't think you can dump him on a team in the postseason and say "Tim, we need you to kill this guy and get 30-35 a night on a very high %", because he doesn't have that insane athleticism like Shaq and Hakeem did. You could do that with those players...and considering that Hakeem was just as good fundamentally and clearly a better defender, he gets the nod. Again, I know Tim has 4 rings but I don't see Hakeem losing on either one of those squads. I try to compare the players and their skills...and not necessarily les when they are in different eras.
Last edited by kingmalaki; 05-30-2008 at 12:59 AM.
This is true.
On the other hand, Olajuwon isn't a center in the classical sense. He's more of a power forward than Duncan is a center, really.
Two of my five favorite players of my lifetime watching basketball, along with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Charles Barkley, and Dennis Rodman. Duncan is very good, and is even underrated in some regards - his defense is truly special, in ways that flashier shot-swatters failed to be. But Olajuwon's was better. And Olajuwon is better. A more prolific scorer, and slightly more efficiently; equally as good a rebounder. He was less effective a passer, even though he was also the focal point of opposing defenses in ways Tim Duncan rarely, if ever has been; but on the other hand he was dominant in that way - and Duncan is not. Whereas Duncan picks apart double-teams with intelligence and finesse, Olajuwon would plough through them with strength and speed and demand a third man - and usually score anyway, or if not create space for his teammates to go by themselves.
I will say this - Hakeem Olajuwon would not allow Kobe Bryant or Jason Terry to abuse him on the high screen-and-roll. And that amounts to the difference between the two.
Good post. I do think Duncan is a better passer than Hakeem was. i just think it's funny how better a passer one can be when they are playing with dudes who can hit shots. This isn't so say Duncan wasn't a good passer (and I think he was better)....just saying folks say Hakeem suddenly became a good passer when he was passing to folks like Smith or Horry, as opposed to dudes like Buck Johnson. Similar to how much more willing Kobe is to pass this season when it's not Smush Parker or Kwame on the receiving end.
give me hakeem, duncan tends to detour alot with his outlet passes, i would to see him force more shots.
i got a feeling kobe bryant could surpass him and snaq oatmeal on the all time list
Hakeem, easily. The Dream had to play during Showtime's and then Jordan's era. Give Hakeem the Spurs roster in the 00's and he probably 3peats while Tim shoots 42% with pau gasol guarding him. It's not even close really. Anyone with a brain would take Hakeem over duncan.
are you kidding. Its not even close............Duncan
That or because Duncan kicked Malone's and now Boozers ass and you are bitter?
My guess is that you are bitter.
Hakeem destroyed Shaq in all the fields you used to prove Hakeem > Duncan, so why is Shaq > Hakeem?
Some like to put Shaq ahead of Hakeem, mainly based on the "team success" that Duncan fans rely on so much. Similar to the Duncan comparison, they completely forget that Shaq's 3 guards (Penny, Kobe, Wade) are better than any other wing Hakeem played with for 3/4 of his career.
But at least Shaq has some advantage over Hakeem in that he was a more dynamic and efficient scorer. Personally, I would still rather have Hakeem because he can close games and because of his defense.
So essentially, Hakeem > Duncan because of statistics, Shaq > Hakeem because les, but Duncan < Hakeem despite of les.
In other words, whichever field Duncan has an advantage on in comparing against other greats should be thrown out the window in favour or a metric that Duncan is at a disadvantage?
BTW, Shaq was NOT a more dynamic nor efficient scorer than Hakeem, whatever that means. If you want to go by FG%, James Donaldson and Artis Gilmore is more dynamic and efficient than Hakeem then, those means very little. Hakeem has more low post moves, and can open up the lanes AND the 3 pt line for his teammates (so can Duncan), Shaq can't.
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