Hakeem or Duncan who would you rather have?

[robbie380]

I dont think the stats argument holds... since Duncan had a higher PER.. adjusted for minutes and pace.... than Hakeem for most his years.

and PER isn't a 100% reliable stat. by the time duncan's career is done he will have a worse PER than barkley. d-rob has the 3rd highest career PER. i don't think anyone will say he was the 3rd best player in the history of the NBA.

[blink]

prime duncan is great and all but the dream wins by a clear margin. watch prime hakeem play a full season and you will see.

i dont know how anyone that has seen hakeem play would pick duncan.

[dbreiden83080]

Duncan but it is awfully close.

It is funny how people rate players all time, because i hear Bird is top 5 all the time yet Duncan and Hakeem both could do more than Bird on both ends of the court. Bird was not a very good defender. Hakeem gets shafted with his all time ranking if you ask me.

[Nahtanoj]

Wash.

[LakeShow]

Hakeem! Better overall player with a better repertoire on offense. Defensively one of the best Centers in the history of the NBA.

[MateoNeygro]

Take their entire prime if you like. Both are amazing, but if you watch that video, man, Hakeem was so special so quick for a player his size...and so skilled.

Has Duncan ever torched a league MVP like Hakeem did to Robinson...

DD

DUNCAN torches NASH and the suns every year, he's knocked SHAQ and KOBE (BOTH MVPs) out of the playoffs, He also whoops up on Dirk so bad they don't have him guard DUNCAN. SO YEAH HE HAS TORCHED MANY MVPs, but don't get me wrong Hakeem was the but I still take Duncan's 2 MVPs 3 time FINALS MVP, ALL DEFENSIVE TEAM 10 times, 10 time all-star and most importantly 4 championship rings to HAKEEM's 2 RINGS

[MateoNeygro]

those 2 could have been more if his '86 team didn't fall apart around him. it's too bad modern surgical techniques didn't exist back then for sampson. it's even more of a tragedy that the team lost lucas, lloyd, and wiggins to coke. i think that is the one thing that really irks me when people talk about hakeem and only talk about his "prime". it's like they completely forget that he led a team that beat down the showtime lakers in 5 games in '86 and took the 86' celtics, the 2nd or 3rd best team ever, to 6 games. they always forget dream got to the finals way before jordan ever did and it's all because of team.

duncan has really had a luxury having good players around him pretty much his whole career. i'm not taking anything away from duncan at all but it is a testament to basketball being a team game and you need talent around you to win.

also to the argument of who is better...awhile back someone put forth this question and i made a spreadsheet comparing dream's and duncan's careers up to this point and for what it's worth dream led in every statistical category. i think it's on my computer at home. i'll post the numbers later.

Yeah but all that he did he only one 2 championships with rather good teams right?? Duncan won in 99 with Avery Johnson, an aging David Robinson, Sean Elliott, and Mario Ellie. YEAH THATS A GREAT SUPPORTING CAST HE DOMINATED THE PLAY-OFFS and STATS aren't everything it's about the END RESULT AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS DUNCAN=4/ HAKEEM=2 SORRY PAL

[MateoNeygro]

Except that Hakeem shot better from the field and FT line than Duncan (and in an era of much better big man compe ion), defended better, and rebounded better...

Duncan's Spurs were 1-3 against Shaq-Kobe-Phil btw. Destroyed in 2001 and 2002 and then blew a 2-0 lead in 2004.

The reason it's hard to argue Duncan over Hakeem is that Hakeem did everything Duncan did but better. Nice bank shot? I raise you an unstoppable turnaround baseline jumper from 15 feet that was much more accurate and indefensible than any move Duncan had.

Great interior D by Duncan? Hakeem raises you multiple DPOY awards, all time shot block le, and the only big man ever to rank in the top 10 of steals all time.

Duncan's great rebounding? hakeem raises to 3 rebounding les in his career.


Ranking the top big men of the past 20 years:

Shaq
Hakeem
Duncan

The Field...

thats rediculous it's backwards it goes as follows........

DUNCAN
HAKEEM
SHAQ is a fat bas who only wins with strong wing players

[MateoNeygro]

Hakeem, easily. The Dream had to play during Showtime's and then Jordan's era. Give Hakeem the Spurs roster in the 00's and he probably 3peats while Tim shoots 42% with pau gasol guarding him. It's not even close really. Anyone with a brain would take Hakeem over duncan.

I like how every LAKER fan says Olajuwan just because they don't like Duncan

[MateoNeygro]

You can suck a ing . I gave my opinion, no need for you to go on the attack about Malone and Carlos ing Boozer, because of it. In the future, don't be such a lame little pussy.

HAHA IT MUST SUCK TO BE A UTAH JAZZ FAN, THEY'LL NEVER WIN OH AND MALONE WAS A ING BAG FILTHY ING PLAYER AND DUNCAN OWNES HIS ASS

[MateoNeygro]

I remember watch Hakeem in playoffs in past years. Duncan is not same class as him in any part of game. Duncan is great player everyone know this. he is one of best players in his time in NBA and one of the best PF of NBA probable best PF of NBA in all history.

But Hakeem was much better player than Duncan is. I see such vote here just because Spurs fans. I am Spurs fan but this is still crazy. How true fan who know game really believe Duncan better than Hakeem? This is joke yes?

HAHA THATS SOME TERRIBLE GRAMMAR YOU HAVE GOING ON IN THIS POST BIG GUY, YOU SOUND LIKE BORAT

[MateoNeygro]

Reread my post. Similar to Duncan, some (i.e. not me) put Shaq > Hakeem because he has 4 les compared to 2. Similar to Duncan, folks rarely mention or consider the fact that Shaq (and Duncan) have always been surrounding with quality teams while Hakeem played a good chunk of his career surrounded by crap. The same can be said for other great centers of Hakeem's era (David Robinson and Ewing). When comparing dudes I generally don't like to use les, unless both players went head up in the postseason when they both had teams capable of winning it all (i.e. Mj vs Drexler in Finals, Hakeem vs Robinson, Ewing or Shaq in postseason).

As much as it pains me to say it, Shaq was a more dynamic scorer than Hakeem. His career avg is 25 a game and he has never shot less that 56% from the field. He was a better scorer, and more efficient. You mention Donaldson and Gilmore...but neither one could drop 30 a night on 58% with 2-3 dudes hanging on them...much less on a le team. Yeah, Hakeem has every move in the book....but he still couldn't put the ball in the hole at the rate that Shaq could. Now IMO, I would rather have Hakeem offensively because he was not a late game liability like Shaq was. You could give him the ball in the closing seconds. And since it's clear that Hakeem was a better defender, I would rather have Hakeem. But I can see the reason why some would prefer Shaq.

Duncan, on the other hand, is not better than Hakeem was on either side of the ball. The only skillset I give Duncan an advantage on is passing. But sorry, I can't see Duncan carrying the 94/95 Rockets past Ewing, Robinson & Shaq by dropping 30 a night on them. I can't see Duncan scoring at the high efficiency level that Shaq did during his peak. We can assume all day long about both sides of the argument, but in the situations where Duncan has had to dominate offensively he hasn't been able to do it. Again, there is no way they you coulda put a frontline of Gasol/Odom or Horry/Grant on Hakeem or Shaq and not get killed.

My breakdown:

Offense - Shaq > Hakeem > Duncan
I have already stated why I would rather have Hakeem here

Defense - Hakeem > Duncan > Shaq

dude quit posting ing novels man, nobody cares about your opinion enough to read that whole damn thing ass clown

[MateoNeygro]

I not understand these argument about "player prime"? Explain me what everyone here mean. To me this mean how good player was when at his best. So how is most people say Duncan is better because he have better prime over people keep say "entire prime" or "all prime"?

Duncan is never as good as Hakeem was. Hakeem was even better than Shaq. How can Duncan be better than Hakeem?

haha you are killing me man, i can't understand you are saying

[MateoNeygro]

Do you think he had that luxury this year? IMO, SA needed him to dominate that matchup and he should have. The Spurs were barely losing games because they couldn't score enough....all while he is being checked by Gasol and Odom.

Duncan was great the one year they eliminated LA (02/03), but what about the 3 times they lost to the Lakers (including this season)? I am not saying it's only Duncan's fault that they lost. I'm saying I think Hakeem and Shaq are dudes you could rely on to dominate a series offensively, and Duncan I'm not so sure about. I'm sorry, but there is just no way either of those two would be held in check by Robert Horry, Sheed, Gasol or Odom.

you are stupid duncan scored like crazy against LA and you act like GASOL and or ODOM guarded Duncan one on one, everytime they doubled him he shot bad cause players could sag off Manu and sit in TIM's LAP if you don't understand the little things in basketball i guess it's easy to say stupid like the quoted post above

[cajunspur]

I would take Hakeem. He had a much better overall offensive skill set. He was much better at scoring in bunches and taking over a game than duncan is. Without looking at it, Hakeem was a better foul shooter than Duncan is.

Defensively Hakeem was the better shot blocker, as he was more agile, but Duncan seems like the better rebounder.

Mainly though Hakeem was the go-to guy his whole career and carry teams. Duncan has not always been the go-to guy.

[Bob Lanier]

I would take Hakeem.

Ah, .

[cajunspur]

Ah, .

What?

[GuerillaBlack]

On other sites I frequent not related to the Spurs or Rockets, Dream is winning by about a 4 to 1 margin.

DD

Can you link them?

[Indazone]

Posting a Dream or Duncan poll on Spurs talk

Too many homers here and it'd be an all out Duncan is better. It's being proven out right now 2:1 in favor of Duncan. Reversre poll numbers on a Rockets board. What you need is the poll numbers from a neutral site.

[robbie380]

Yeah but all that he did he only one 2 championships with rather good teams right?? Duncan won in 99 with Avery Johnson, an aging David Robinson, Sean Elliott, and Mario Ellie. YEAH THATS A GREAT SUPPORTING CAST HE DOMINATED THE PLAY-OFFS and STATS aren't everything it's about the END RESULT AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS DUNCAN=4/ HAKEEM=2 SORRY PAL

good job completely missing the point of my post. even better job with the 9 posts in a row

anyhow...that 99 team had great chemistry like the rockets 94 team and they were pretty comparable talent-wise to the 94 rockets. also...when did duncan start winning championships after 99? hmmm....was it after he got a team around him? i think so! imagine if you guys had held onto s-jax from that year.

[Leetonidas]

What gets me is Rocket Fan is trying to claim how there are too many homers here.

Uh, o, it's a ing Spurs board. Of course Tim Duncan is going to win here and of course Hakeem would win on a Rockets board. Why would you even make the topic if you knew that?

It's a close race really, and based on team success over the last decade, I would pick Tim Duncan. Perhaps Hakeem was more skilled and gifted, but Tim Duncan is so fundamentally sound and has been quietly dominant for so many years. The guy is severely under appreciated in the NBA.

Yes, Hakeem was the best player in the NBA for two years. Tim Duncan has been dominating the modern NBA for 10 years now.

[Spurs da champs]

It's a close race really, and based on team success over the last decade, I would pick Tim Duncan. Perhaps Hakeem was more skilled and gifted, but Tim Duncan is so fundamentally sound and has been quietly dominant for so many years. The guy is severely under appreciated in the NBA.

I agree.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Hakeem > Duncan (but it's harder to say as the years go by, because Duncan's got his own greatness coming along)
Hakeem was pretty unique. I 've never seen a big man that quick, despite the young guys. Just think of Hakeem and think of all the traditional young centers we have. No one has been like him since.
He had the craftiness of a guard. And he was a defensive beast who could both block AND had the hands to steal.

Hakeem on his dreamshake




But
Rasho >>> BOTH

Rasho keeping the dream alive

[DaDakota]

Can you link them?

http://www.jazzfanz.com/boards/viewt...hp?f=6&t=30559

Now it is down to 3 to 1...still the point is made.

DD

[mystargtr34]

and PER isn't a 100% reliable stat. by the time duncan's career is done he will have a worse PER than barkley. d-rob has the 3rd highest career PER. i don't think anyone will say he was the 3rd best player in the history of the NBA.

And Hakeem scoring average is about 50th in career history... does that mean hes 50th best offensive player of all time?

Hakeem's Rockets played at a much faster pace than Duncan's Spurs... more shots = more points to get = more rebounds to be had = more asists blocks etc..

Spurs crawling pace for the first half of Duncans career gave his numbers a beating compared to other greats... yet he still put up Hakeem number ... 25.5 - 12.7 - 3.7 - 2.7.