Monroe: Splitter won't be in mix yet

[Marcus Bryant]

One day in the not too distant future we will be looking back at this conversation and wondering why so many were worried about Splitter. It will be like revisiting the "Giricek > Ginobili" threads of old.

[whottt]

I'm not that worried about Splitter...I said Ian had more upside 3 months ago and got nearly a boardwide pileon for saying it...


But if you think this is going to be isolated to Splitter, Tau and the Spurs, you are sadly mistaken...the Euroleagues has pretty obvious intentions of setting itself up as a rival of the NBA...not a minor league...and you really can't blame them for that.


To ignore the fact that they are inching closer and closer to that goal with each passing year, is the height of "American arrogance".


They are gaining...and you can stick your head in the sand and count on your "inherent" superiority to win the day...but ultimately you will wind up a fool for taking that approach.



I personally don't care other than as a Spurfan...I'm not too happy with hte NBa right now and I am sick of Stern...and a part of me enjoyed this.


I'm not worried about Splitter,...he's a nice player and he's definitely better than Scola, but he's not the reason we just lost in the playoffs...nor is he the most pressing concern this offseason...


All that said...wasting a #1 pick kinda sucks...and I'd prefer we don't do it again.


At the very least this deal benfitted all of the Euroleagues as it makes NBA teams a little more skittish about using a #1 pick to raid their talent...

[Harry Callahan]

for some reason RC referring to Tau, the multi-million euro empire of euroleague, as a 'program' like it was some college is very amusing to me.

If you pay attention, the Spurs FO refers to their own team as a "program" as well.

[Harry Callahan]

Why is everyone blaming RC for this?


He didn't up...


And what was he supposed to say? Splitter ed us...I can't believe this POS did this and ed up our entire offseason plan?



What RC said has nothing to do with why Splitter isn't here...it's irrelevant...and any ing about it is Spurfans looking for a reason to about something the Spurs had no control over. And it's not going to make you feel any better either.


This is going to happen more and more often to all NBA teams barring a restructuring of the rookie payscale...the Spurs were just the first one it happened to.


And it's not RC's fault...and it's not the fault of his speech either.


Worst post ever by lamevp.

The only reason Splitter was drafted by the Spurs in the first place at the 28th pick is the contract situation in the first place.

I doubt if Splitter will ever show his face in San Antonio again like he did last year (at least for a couple of years). I guess in the end that appearance was all negotiating with someone else anyway. Pretty sorry no matter how you slice it. If Splitter had been honest with the Spurs, they could have drafted him in the second round a few picks later and passed on Marcus Williams (the Arizona Stiff). At least SA could have had a productive pick last year.

To be somewhat fair to Splitter, he probably never imagined he would get a big offer. If he doesn't come in two years, he probably never comes.

This time, the Spurs should be respectful publicly, but if he does not come in 2010, they should hold his rights for good so that if he plays in the NBA, it will be here or nowhere else.

[Harry Callahan]

At the very least...if they don't substantially up the rookie payscale...they at least need to incoporate some form of draft bird rights into the CBA to allow NBA teams to match or better compe ive offers from non NBA Teams so they can sign their own draft picks.

Because a #1 pick is a terrible thing to waste.


Any of you guys think the NBA is going to award us an additional pick because their rule just caused us to waste a #1 pick?

Will there be just compensation?

No compensation. The Spurs can't even get a decent plane or reasonable playoff schedule.

Some kind of contractural flexibility would be nice on a limited scale so SA could be more compe ive in this situation, but the NBA PA and the league really don't care about doing the Spurs any favors at this point.

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah. All #1 draft picks are hits.

Hmm, well, let's see . . .

Year --#1 pick --Players who would have gotten a bigger contract under your plan
2002 -- Yao Ming -- point is moot because China was determining Yao's salary anyway
2003 -- LeBron James -- Darko Milic, Mickael Pietrus, Zarko Cabarkapa, Aleksandar Pavlovic, Boris Diaw, Zoran Planinic, Carlos Delfino, Leandro Barbosa
(I should just stop right here, but . . . )

2004 -- Dwight Howard -- Andris Biedrins, Viktor Khryapa, Sergie Monia, Sasha Vujacic, Beno Udrih
2005 -- Andrew Bogut -- Yaroslav Korolev, Johan Petro, Ian Mahinmi2006 -- Andrea Bargnani (guess he would have been eligible for really big money)
2007 -- Greg Oden -- Marco Blinelli, Rudy Fernandez (oh, that would have helped team unity), Tiago Splitter, Petteri Koponen

I don't see a single international player who deserved to get more money than the #1 pick. And the guy who presumably would have gotten the biggest contract of any rookie in the past six years under your plan would have been . . . Andrea Bargnani.


So, no not all #1 draft picks are hits. Just the ones you would stiff with your plan. Excellent idea.

[Marcus Bryant]

How about the MB Plan?

After 2 years, a team can use its own MLE exception to sign an international player whose draft rights it holds. That would at least somewhat control for quality. Plus it wouldn't necessarily create an unfair advantage vis a vis other teams as the team wouldn't be given a new cap exception.

[picnroll]

One thing that could be done is allow an escalating scale of what can be offered each year post draft year. Say you draft a player and can offer him rookie scale year one. If he doesn't sign each year you could offer him more so that by year three or so you could offer up to MLE type money if you wanted him and that's what it took to bring him over.

Then there would be some bite to Euro temas paying to develop talent they could lose when fully mature.

How about the MB Plan?

After 2 years, a team can use its own MLE exception to sign an international player whose draft rights it holds. That would at least somewhat control for quality. Plus it wouldn't necessarily create an unfair advantage vis a vis other teams as the team wouldn't be given a new cap exception.

Sorry it will have to be called the P&R Plan

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, I think that's on the right track. But like I said before, it may create a huge incentive to sign a 2-3 year European contract for mid-to-lower first round picks, or those who feel they're not going to be getting a lot of playing time early on.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sorry it will have to be called the P&R Plan

I posted it somewhere yesterday.

[picnroll]

Yeah, I think that's on the right track. But like I said before, it may create a huge incentive to sign a 2-3 year European contract for mid-to-lower first round picks, or those who feel they're not going to be getting a lot of playing time early on.

How many of those mid/late picks really get much significant playing time on the good teams that picked them? How many of those good teams would be better off letting these mid/late picks get playing time overseas? How many of these mid/late picks would get disillusioned sitting in East Jesus, Spain getting no playing time all the while dodging coins and batteries at the end of the bench? How many NBA teams would see their lat round pick with "the incredible upside" showed no progress and saved themselves the cap money by not signing them? There are pluses as well.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, I think that's on the right track. But like I said before, it may create a huge incentive to sign a 2-3 year European contract for mid-to-lower first round picks, or those who feel they're not going to be getting a lot of playing time early on.

I guess the catch for those players would be that the NBA team wouldn't have to give them a larger than rookie scale contract. Considering that the attractiveness of the rookie scale for NBA teams is that it allows them to lock in a talent at a low salary, then perhaps, on average, an international talent who hasn't proven himself abroad would not be rewarded.

Of course, it wouldn't be perfect, but would the # of bad contracts doled out differ that much than the norm in the NBA?

[oligarchy]

Hmm, well, let's see . . .

Year --#1 pick --Players who would have gotten a bigger contract under your plan
2002 -- Yao Ming -- point is moot because China was determining Yao's salary anyway
2003 -- LeBron James -- Darko Milic, Mickael Pietrus, Zarko Cabarkapa, Aleksandar Pavlovic, Boris Diaw, Zoran Planinic, Carlos Delfino, Leandro Barbosa
(I should just stop right here, but . . . )

2004 -- Dwight Howard -- Andris Biedrins, Viktor Khryapa, Sergie Monia, Sasha Vujacic, Beno Udrih
2005 -- Andrew Bogut -- Yaroslav Korolev, Johan Petro, Ian Mahinmi2006 -- Andrea Bargnani (guess he would have been eligible for really big money)
2007 -- Greg Oden -- Marco Blinelli, Rudy Fernandez (oh, that would have helped team unity), Tiago Splitter, Petteri Koponen

I don't see a single international player who deserved to get more money than the #1 pick. And the guy who presumably would have gotten the biggest contract of any rookie in the past six years under your plan would have been . . . Andrea Bargnani.


So, no not all #1 draft picks are hits. Just the ones you would stiff with your plan. Excellent idea.

Your point being what? What point don't you get? THOSE PEOPLE MADE HOW MUCH THE YEAR PRIOR? Please, go to school. Jesus Christ. It makes as much sense on wasting draft picks on players who won't come over. There is no guarantee on a college player or foreign player.

It's completely stupid to compare the two as the same. Who cares if that's what America chooses to do for American players (non-professional). The point being -- don't consider Foreign players rookies, or whatever. Think of an idea instead of saying everything is idiotic. The only thing idiotic is people who about an idea, but don't give one. So, a player who plays in Europe and has a contract making more than the rookie scale should be considered the same (or by your standards less than any college pick). Excellent.

[itzsoweezee]

this offseason and last offseason combine as a screwup of epic proportions. these know-nothing ers that are running the front office and that cheap piece of owner.

[ShoogarBear]

Your point being what? What point don't you get? THOSE PEOPLE MADE HOW MUCH THE YEAR PRIOR? Please, go to school. Jesus Christ. It makes as much sense on wasting draft picks on players who won't come over. There is no guarantee on a college player or foreign player.

It's completely stupid to compare the two as the same. Who cares if that's what America chooses to do for American players (non-professional). The point being -- don't consider Foreign players rookies, or whatever. Think of an idea instead of saying everything is idiotic. The only thing idiotic is people who about an idea, but don't give one. So, a player who plays in Europe and has a contract making more than the rookie scale should be considered the same (or by your standards less than any college pick). Excellent.

The only one who doesn't get the point is you.

First, YOU made this moronic statement, did you not?

Yeah. All #1 draft picks are hits.

The NBA and NBA fans don't care how much those guy made overseas. The only thing they care about is how they are going to perform as an NBA player and how they should be paid commensurate with their NBA performance.

You said international players without NBA experience should be paid more than college players without NBA experience. And I showed there isn't a shred of evidence to justify that on the basis of performance.

Or, why don't you tell us which of those players I listed deserve to have a contract that pays them more than the #1 pick?

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, Shoog. Go to school.

[Marcus Bryant]

this offseason and last offseason combine as a screwup of epic proportions. these know-nothing ers that are running the front office and that cheap piece of owner.

This offseason? It's June 8th.

[AFBlue]

How about the MB Plan?

After 2 years, a team can use its own MLE exception to sign an international player whose draft rights it holds. That would at least somewhat control for quality. Plus it wouldn't necessarily create an unfair advantage vis a vis other teams as the team wouldn't be given a new cap exception.

Can't the Spurs do this anyways?

They could renounce his rights in 2010 and then use their MLE to sign him to a larger contract than originally specified.

I'm sure the league would have something to say about it, but is that possible?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

This offseason? It's June 8th.

[Mr. Body]

this offseason and last offseason combine as a screwup of epic proportions. these know-nothing ers that are running the front office and that cheap piece of owner.

They really did screw the pooch, but at least there are still pieces in place. But cue anyway the Pollyanna Brigade and the Four Championships/No History Brigade.

[ShoogarBear]

Yeah, Shoog. Go to school.

http://schools.nationalrelocation.com/district/3302730/

[oligarchy]

The only one who doesn't get the point is you.

First, YOU made this moronic statement, did you not?



The NBA and NBA fans don't care how much those guy made overseas. The only thing they care about is how they are going to perform as an NBA player and how they should be paid commensurate with their NBA performance.

You said international players without NBA experience should be paid more than college players without NBA experience. And I showed there isn't a shred of evidence to justify that on the basis of performance.

Or, why don't you tell us which of those players I listed deserve to have a contract that pays them more than the #1 pick?

We are just going to go back on forth on the same points. I say it does matter that college players make zero and international players have contracts. You say it doesn't, based on precedence of performance.

[CaptainLate]

I'm not that worried about Splitter...I said Ian had more upside 3 months ago and got nearly a boardwide pileon for saying it...


But if you think this is going to be isolated to Splitter, Tau and the Spurs, you are sadly mistaken...the Euroleagues has pretty obvious intentions of setting itself up as a rival of the NBA...not a minor league...and you really can't blame them for that.

To ignore the fact that they are inching closer and closer to that goal with each passing year, is the height of "American arrogance".

They are gaining...and you can stick your head in the sand and count on your "inherent" superiority to win the day...but ultimately you will wind up a fool for taking that approach.

And it's b/c "American arrogance" is to the conspiracy to destroy the US$ and replace it with the Amero -- the currency of the North American Union. The Euroleagues, having already experienced it, are well aware of what has been done to Europe.

Start your education here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVsMUpPgdT0 and, as I said earlier, do a search on "Amero" and "North American Union". Check out http://www.amerocurrency.com/ and WAKE THE UP!! You can be damn sure cia Pop knows what is going on, but I wonder whether he is for or a One World Government?

www.RonPaul2008.com

[CaptainLate]

No compensation....Some kind of contractural flexibility would be nice on a limited scale so SA could be more compe ive in this situation, but the NBA PA and the league really don't care about doing the Spurs any favors at this point.

Unless the Spurs get new ownership willing to spend to stay compe ive, then after the Duncan era they will be looking to sell the team who isn't interested in keeping the Spurs in SA...or will lie and "do a Seattle".

[Mitch Cumsteen]

The problem lies not with NBA rookie salary cap, but with the location where Splitter was drafted. If he goes in the top ten, then the salary is compe ive. If he goes in the second round, the salary can be compe ive, depending what a team is willing to offer. The late first round draft and stash is currently a lousy strategy. You can do it in the second round, but not late in the first round. If you can get a guy to come over immediately, fine. But otherwise, treating the Euroleague like a glorified D-league clearly isn't going to fly with good prospects. It used to be that they built their value to go to the NBA, now they are building their value to the Euro teams.

Scola didn't come because the Spurs were too ing cheap to pay him. In some ways, this is a similar deal -- they thought they could get frontline help on the cheap with a rookie contract for a guy who they knew was better than what they could pay him. It seemed like a brilliant business decision at the time -- get Mahinmi and Splitter for less than the cost of Scola. But they severely underestimated the market forces at work. In hindsight, you can't blame them but they got blindsided and made a bad business decision.