A glimpse into government health care

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/De...aspx?id=130932

I'm sure the resident Obamapologists will say this would never happen under his plan, or blame it on Bush...

[Emanuel20]

"We can't cover everything for everyone," he said. "We try to come up with polices that provide the most good for the most people."


Wow, I work in an unsurance company and I see the meaning of the quote portrayed by every aspect of the insurance company ...They are in the business to make money and that is ALL.

Here in Atlanta, there was one case where an ill child went to kaiser, however they were insured by BCBS and Kaiser sent them to a different hospital b/c they were insured by a different provider. And on the way to the other hospital, the kid died. It kills me to see that such things happen!

[Purple & Gold]

Government Health Care works. It will eventually happen here in the U.S. It's the natural progression of things.

[PEP]

Government Health Care works. It will eventually happen here in the U.S. It's the natural progression of things.

It's good to see that youre optimistic about the govt running health care because everything else theyve gotten their hands on has worked out very well.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Government Health Care works. It will eventually happen here in the U.S. It's the natural progression of things.

If by works you mean people die while on a waiting list to even see a doctor for a diagnosis like what happens over in Europe with their socialized health care, then yeah, we can all look forward to a highly successful and 'working' government health care system.

[Clandestino]

I love it how the people who are pushing for government healthcare always are the first to criticize how much the government sucks

[Anti.Hero]

At least our leaders in the government will still get access to the greatest doctors in the world and won't have to ever wait in lines. That's all that matters.

I mean, look how fast they helped Teddy. He's a swell guy. God bless Amerika.

[Anti.Hero]

Government Health Care works. It will eventually happen here in the U.S. It's the natural progression of things.

Yeah the 2 billion a year your state drops on illegals' health care is doing wanders for your state! hahaha

It's going to be awesome! They will save us all!

[boutons_]

Aggie's, supposedly some kind of business dude, cherry pickiing his half-truths, again.

Chemo is fantastic business, dude, get over it.

He fails to see why OHP won't cover this lady with recurrent, probably metastatic, cancer which is, in nearly all cases, incurable. iow, it's only a matter of time for her, probably shorter rather than longer.

Chemo doesn't work for 100s of 1000s of cancer patients. Ask the US 600K+ who die from cancer every year. Chemo extends the avg patient's life by well under 6 months vs. no chemo, during chemo-life extension the typical chemo patient's QUALITY of life is in the toilet due to chemo toxicity. Chemo even kills more paitents than it cures. EVERYBODY $wins big except the patient.

Chemo is extremely expensive (talking 100s of $K if you drag it out), and in nearly every case, the cost of research, testing, and production are overwhelmingly covered by the price. iow, chemo is not only hugely ineffective, it's hugely profitable, for BigPharma and for the oncologists who basically live off the percentage of chemo they prescribe. There was a poll of oncologists some years ago that said 3 of 4 oncologists would refuse chemo FOR THEMSELVES because, from their first-hand experience, of the side-effects and ineffectiveness.

So, that super-expensive doesn't work, the lady's going to die, but the for-profit chemo business, knowing full well what the odds are, gives the sucker, er patient, some cruel, inhumane hope that something can be done (6 months life extension max on avg) and tries to suck out a few $100K from the insurers.

So the OHP, putting on their actuarial/business hat, knows this lady is dead, and covering her suicide is better for OHP (they are economists rationing "$care" and they know some "care", like chemo, is worthless bull ).

If chemo "worked", then the discussion is totally different.

Here's a page compiling some anti-chemo links:

http://salonesoterica.wordpress.com/...on-themselves/

"Obamapologists will say this would never happen under his plan"

(Putting words in people's mouths. Do you have a link?)

Sure it will. Why is that fact of end-of-life care the fault of Obama's, or anybody's, health plan?

How many 1000s of uninsured poor people, the one's Obama wants to cover, die unnecessarily now because they "just go to the emergency room" only as a last resort, when their disease is much more expensive to treat, and more likely to be permanently debilitating or fatal. And guess who pays for their super-inflated care? Tax dollars, and paitients who can pay (their bills are jacked up to pay for the poor who can't pay. Somebody's gotta pay and it sure ain't the health corps).

End-of-life (cancer) care requires lots of brutal decisions, such as "why waste 100s of $K on a surely dying person when that money could help non-dying patients? Does Old Sick Senile McFlopPanderKeating even have a health plan? (privatizing MediCare/-Aid/SS isn't a plan. It's coporatete thievery. If you think OHP is heartless, you ain't seen nothin, yet).

OHP not spending $200K+ on a dead-person-walking makes societal/business sense, no matter how brutal it is for the person. The person should go into OHP-covered palliative care, make the best of time remaining.

[Clandestino]

boutons is a ing doctor now! hahaha

[possessed]

I can hardly wait for the day that we make appointments for physicals two years in advance.

So... Canadians come to the USA for major surgeries so they can be seen sooner and by better doctors, where will they go when we socialize our health care?

Where in the will we go?

[boutons_]

"boutons is a ing doctor now"

no, but I'm sure better than Clanny assholes who post nothing but rotten tomatoes.

[Clandestino]

You have never posted anything of substance. You have never posted one solution to any problem. You have always cut n pasted terrorist bull or ridiculed the USA, US Army, Government, etc. However, all of the sudden you think the US Government should pay for your loser ass to have healthcare.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

"boutons is a ing doctor now"

no, but I'm sure better that Clanny assholes who post nothing but rotten tomatoes.

There was nothing factually wrong with the article, unlike your posts.

The Oregon style of health care is based on a prioritized list, basically a copy of Canada and Great Britain's system.

I'm sure you'll tell me you know more (even though you don't know your head from a hole in the ground), but I have family in Great Britain. We've talked on more than one occasion about universal health care, and they all say it sucks and would be the end of America as a superpower.

[Don Quixote]

"We can't cover everything for everyone," he said. "We try to come up with polices that provide the most good for the most people."


Wow, I work in an unsurance company and I see the meaning of the quote portrayed by every aspect of the insurance company ...They are in the business to make money and that is ALL.

Here in Atlanta, there was one case where an ill child went to kaiser, however they were insured by BCBS and Kaiser sent them to a different hospital b/c they were insured by a different provider. And on the way to the other hospital, the kid died. It kills me to see that such things happen!

Very sad, indeed.

No one is saying the current system is very good. Certainly we must make changes. But is having the government run health care the solution?

[boutons_]

"is having the government run health care the solution?"

"current system" is dominated by for-profit corps, not the govt. That's a solution?

The right-wing knee jerk lie that govt never does, cannot do anything right (except the kick-ass military or enrich Repug/conservative MIC contractors) is total bull . The VA has been totally renewed in the past 15 years and runs as well as any private health care (at least until it was overwhelmed and underfunded by the Iraq vets).

The insurance companies select out the chronically ill (and will fight like to maintain the selectivivity), dumping them on govt/charity services. Insurance companies also can prevent ill people from getting jobs, since they tell the corp clients not to hire candidates with chronic diseases, not to hire old/sicker candidates. Corps will also try to lay off old employees first because they have hiring medical costs than younger employees.

[Man of Steel]

Boutons--really impressed by your argument. I admit I had to read it a couple of times and as one who has a chronic bad back all of my life and who had a miserable experience in finding health care, I am sensitive to the role of the insurance companies in making medical decisions.

As for Bush--please--I voted for this ass two times--I gave him a pass until the last year or two. As a lifelong Republican, I am voting Obama!

Yes we can.

[shelshor]

There was nothing factually wrong with the article, unlike your posts.

The Oregon style of health care is based on a prioritized list, basically a copy of Canada and Great Britain's system.

I'm sure you'll tell me you know more (even though you don't know your head from a hole in the ground), but I have family in Great Britain. We've talked on more than one occasion about universal health care, and they all say it sucks and would be the end of America as a superpower.

Is this the same government that has been so successful at running the veterans health care system?

And each year in Oregon, the list gets shorter
A few years ago, sex changes were covered; the first item NOT covered on the list was dry, cracked & bleeding hemorrhoids

[Hook Dem]

"boutons is a ing doctor now"

no, but I'm sure better than Clanny assholes who post nothing but rotten tomatoes."
Isn't that a lot like the pot calling the kettle black??????

[Don Quixote]

At this point, Boutons calling any of us crazy or intellectually unfair is like Liberace calling us gay, Tom Cruise calling us weird, or the KKK outing us as racists.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Is this the same government that has been so successful at running the veterans health care system?

And each year in Oregon, the list gets shorter
A few years ago, sex changes were covered; the first item NOT covered on the list was dry, cracked & bleeding hemorrhoids

There's a slight difference between the VA and what nationalized health care would entail.

Government provided health care would look more like our corrupt welfare program than what the VA has been able to do.

Or do all of you think that the insurance and medical industries are just going to go quietly into the night and not get their hand in the government cookie jar, when it's already there on both sides of the aisle?

[boutons_]

"slight difference between the VA and what nationalized health care would entail."

The successful VA would serve as model for how to do it right, as would other countries' national health programs that deliver care to 100% of their people for 2/3 or 1/2 national cost of the USA's

"Government provided health care would look more like our corrupt welfare program than what the VA has been able to do"

In your talking-points vision of the future, with your knee-jerking wildly.

The most corrupting influence on govt health care is "free market" corps maximizing their revenues while minimizing product delivery (if they delivery anything at all), not corrput govt employees.

The corps are so powerful that they will fight like (aka buy politicians at all levels with 100s of $Ms) if anybody even talks about "reducing costs" aka touching their cheese.

It will take real leadership (excludes Old Sick Senile McFlopPanderKeating) to fight them.

Can Obama and the Dems do it? Very probably not, losing the battle may expose to the sheeple how totally, irretrievably, the USA was "bought, sold, and delivered a long time ago" - George Carlin, not that the somnolent sheeple, by definition, give a .

[Purple & Gold]

If by works you mean people die while on a waiting list to even see a doctor for a diagnosis like what happens over in Europe with their socialized health care, then yeah, we can all look forward to a highly successful and 'working' government health care system.

Please enlighten me on how it doesn't work in Europe. Bear in mind I can see through bull a mile away and I have lived in a European country with socialized medicine. I take it you have as well, since you seem to know so much about it.

[DarkReign]

Please enlighten me on how it doesn't work in Europe. Bear in mind I can see through bull a mile away and I have lived in a European country with socialized medicine. I take it you have as well, since you seem to know so much about it.

Dont bother. While I understand the merit of your argument, others will never even consider it.

They have health insurance, so do most people in their family. Until that fact changes (and it will), your words fall on deaf ears.

My point is, Universal Health Care is a hot-button issue (as it was meant to be). Its the same as abortion, illegal immigration/amnesty and gay marriage.

A distraction tactic for the politically starved, providing the much-needed reasons for hate and contempt needed by others to despise those unlike themselves.

If you ever encounter the few here who can have an argument free of their own personal motivations, feelings, and self interests youre lucky.

[clambake]

Dont bother. While I understand the merit of your argument, others will never even consider it.

They have health insurance, so do most people in their family. Until that fact changes (and it will), your words fall on deaf ears.

My point is, Universal Health Care is a hot-button issue (as it was meant to be). Its the same as abortion, illegal immigration/amnesty and gay marriage.

A distraction tactic for the politically starved, providing the much-needed reasons for hate and contempt needed by others to despise those unlike themselves.

If you ever encounter the few here who can have an argument free of their own personal motivations, feelings, and self interests youre lucky.

can't you see how gay marriage has destroyed straight people?