NBA - It's Not Fixed As Far As the Spurs Are Concerned

[MateoNeygro]

as a business owner, this struck a chord, because ultimately you are held responsible for any monkey business in your company, even if an employee was the one screwing around. see you are arguing on the premise that the tampering is necessarily coming from a top-down directive, presumably to increase/decrease ratings. however, tampering can come in many forms, and the more likely motive to tamper is to manipulate the gambling market, not the ratings market. of course, this view shifts responsibility back from stern to donaghy and the like- mid level guys who can get away with crap precisely because they arent at the top.

i dont think the league is rigged outright, but i do think that games have their outcomes affected by crooked refs, greedy execs (league or team), personal vendettas, etc. its almost inevitable. and i think good teams play through that. still, its pretty damning to hear that refs play tennis with GM's or that owners complaints affect how calls are being made. the league has rules and regulations for a reason, and the fact that jackson and nunn are incapable of enforcing them is really pathetic. i cant believe those two still have jobs. (crawford too. how many bad calls does he have to make to lose his job?) like big dog said, if you can fine the players and coaches for screwing up, start fining the refs, the calls will improve. i dont think that is too much to ask for.

well said diego very astute observation and take on the whole thing, i think if there is any fixing your scenario is probably the most likely. GOOD PLAY SIR GOOD PLAY

[1Parker1]

Pivotal Game 4: Assigning J Crawford to an important Spurs playoff game, knowing full well the history there. The ending of that game didn't help in reconciling said history.

Tim Duncan laughs at a ref one time and another time accidently runs into a ref during the course of a regular season game and he is suspended/thrown out of the game. Kevin Garnett intentionally pushes a ref out of the way during a tussle in a playoff game and he doesn't so much as get a fine.

.04 Game: To this day, I am still not sure how a player can catch, turnaround, and shoot the basketball in 4 tenths of a second, unless he is superhuman.

In no way am I saying that the NBA is rigged, I really don't believe that. But you honestly cannot blame Spurs fans for believing this.

[1Parker1]

I am still waiting for Phil Jackson to get a single fine this postseason for all his comments regarding the refereeing. That in itself is another outrageous thing.

[td4mvp21]

Pivotal Game 4: Assigning J Crawford to an important Spurs playoff game, knowing full well the history there. The ending of that game didn't help in reconciling said history.

I'm not sure why Crawford would even be allowed to ref Spurs games. He's human, and whether you like it or not, he is going to be biased against a player/team that had him suspended for the '07 playoffs and publicly scrutinized. How can one not?

Tim Duncan laughs at a ref one time and another time accidently runs into a ref during the course of a regular season game and he is suspended/thrown out of the game. Kevin Garnett intentionally pushes a ref out of the way during a tussle in a playoff game and he doesn't so much as get a fine.

I will never understand this. Blatantly unfair and inconsistent by the league.

.04 Game: To this day, I am still not sure how a player can catch, turnaround, and shoot the basketball in 4 tenths of a second, unless he is superhuman.

In no way am I saying that the NBA is rigged, I really don't believe that. But you honestly cannot blame Spurs fans for believing this.

.4 was one of those once in a lifetime shots. Whether it should have counted or not is a moot point now, that was 4 years ago and the Spurs have won 2 les since. Plus we couldn't hit the broad side of a barn that year anyway.

[Robinzine]

The NBA is only rigged against the Barry family: Rick Barry because of his early contract problems that made him waste his talent in the ABA for years; Scooter Barry for being called Scooter; Drew Barry for being mediocre, Jon Barry for losing his hair; and Brent Barry for being a victim of a vicious conspiracy against calling fouls committed by Derrick Fisher. Those Barry's have been through so much (sniff). Quick, someone get me a convicted felon to confide to.

[Bob Lanier]

at Detroit being a small market.

San Antonio is a small market. Milwaukee is a small market. Utah is a small market. New Orleans is a small market. Detroit is not a small market.

[Cry Havoc]

With these accusations coming out about the Lakers/Kings playoff series, it's easy to let your mind wander and imagine how many games/series have been rigged these past few years.

Fans have theories on both sides...and I might be in the minority, but i have a problem believing anything that comes from Donaghy's mouth.

I just don't see how small market teams like the Spurs and Pistons could be so successful in a "rigged" NBA system. After ten years (while Spurs stars age) the NBA is just now considering the best financial option?? Why not do this after the first Spurs le?

If Manu's healthy and the Spurs manage to pull out a series victory over the Lakers, is the NBA still rigged? Kobe Shot eleven freethrows the entire series. In the Spurs game 3 win, Kobe shot one freethrow. In the Lakers game 4 win, Kobe didn't shoot a single freethrow. How are the refs rigging games if they aren't even making calls?

As far as the Kings/Lakers series, why would the NBA tamper with a series that already had great ratings? Why not tamper with one of the three most recent series between the Spurs and Suns? If you remember correctly, the NBA cares so much about the ratings that they suspended Amare and Diaw from a very capable Suns team, just last year.

The NBA would rig a single game in a series (with high ratings) to get high ratings, but would allow a team with terrible ratings and a small market to win 4 les in 9 years? And how has another small market (low ratings) team like the Pistons been allowed to see the conference finals for the past 6 years in a row?

Spurs fans should be the least critical of the NBA.

If the NBA fixed the results every year, it would become obvious VERY ing quickly.

All they have to do to make money is make sure that occasionally a small market team can find it's way into the Finals, legitimately or not. Then they can point and say, "See! Proof! No fix!"

The Gasol Maneuver coupled with the KG golden parachute made me skeptical of these playoffs before we ever reached the WCF.

And I'm still waiting for ONE PERSON to tell me how the a team gets 4 days off between a game 6 and 7, and then has to play a WCF Game 1 in a virtual back-to-back.

Please. Explanation. Come on, NBA, you want to show you're credible? Explain this piece of logic.

[ShoogarBear]

And I'm still waiting for ONE PERSON to tell me how the a team gets 4 days off between a game 6 and 7, and then has to play a WCF Game 1 in a virtual back-to-back.

This is really the only thing during this playoffs that I truly consider a massive league office f-up. That was unforgivable. Not to mention that WCF was then the first every-other-day 7-game series in recent memory.

[FromWayDowntown]

This is really the only thing during this playoffs that I truly consider a massive league office f-up. That was unforgivable. Not to mention that WCF was then the first every-other-day 7-game series in recent memory.

To be fair, the 2006 WCF was an every-other-day 7 game series, too:

Western Conference Finals (4-2): Dallas Mavericks over Phoenix Suns

Game 1 May 24 Dallas Mavericks 118 Phoenix Suns 121 
Game 2 May 26 Dallas Mavericks 105 Phoenix Suns 98 
Game 3 May 28 Phoenix Suns 88 Dallas Mavericks 95 
Game 4 May 30 Phoenix Suns 106 Dallas Mavericks 86 
Game 5 June 1 Dallas Mavericks 117 Phoenix Suns 101 
Game 6 June 3 Phoenix Suns 93 Dallas Mavericks 102

The Mavericks also played Game 7 against the Spurs that year on May 22, so they played a schedule that resembled the Spurs' schedule this year.

The ECF this year were also an every-other-day affair, as were the ECF in 2006, 2002, 2001, and 2000. Both conference finals in 2005, 2004, and 2003 were every-other-day series, too.

[urunobili]

As much as Stern apparently doesn't care for the Spurs ratings-killing, intrusive appearances in the NBA Finals or for Pop's anti-establishment at ude, the Spurs dynasty run is his best counter claim as to why the league ISN'T rigged.

[ShoogarBear]

The Mavericks also played Game 7 against the Spurs that year on May 22, so they played a schedule that resembled the Spurs' schedule this year.

Point granted about the Mavs playing every other in the WCF. But there were only 2 off days between game 6 and 7 against the Spurs, so it's not like they had any wiggle room in the schedule. Not to mention they only had to travel from SA to Dallas. The NBA could have easily scheduled the WCSF to allow an extra day between the end of one series and the beginning of the next.

[thispego]

I've already stated that this is not the case. The league officials could/can tamper with the league in a countless number of ways. This is not an argument about what you think is in my mind, let's not make it one.



If someone is in the position to control every aspect of a business, and that person is willing to use underhanded methods to achieve financial benefit... then at any time, during any year, that person (or persons) could use their influence to acheive said benefit. That person (or persons) would not need to wait 10 years to do so...nor would they allow certain (financially detrimental) events to take place so frequently.

It's not logical that the NBA would continually "battle itself" by "slightly" determining either the outcome of games, the balance of power among the east or west, or player personnel per team...only to allow a ten year power shift to the west, small market superiority in both conferences over a ten year period, and abysmal finals ratings over the past 5 years. The NBA wouldn't need to wait for an "opportunity" to act unethically if they are an unethical corporation.



After 15 years of being terrible, the Celtics aquire talent and it was the league who orchestrated this? Same with the Gasol trade, the league doesn't need to wait 6 years through terrible ratings to "allow" a quality player to play alongside Kobe. I never said the Boston trade was bunk, just the Gasol trade. And enyone with eyes can see that. Was there collusion between the teams involved in those trades? Maybe, but why is the league all the sudden the ones behind those deals? I could argue that there was collusion between the Sonics and the Spurs in the KT deal...and i'd probably be right. There was collusion between the Nets and the Mavs when Stackhouse was involved in the trade...and the league stepped in.

No one robs a bank at noon...the NBA isn't going to fix games when everyone is atching during the highest rated playoff series that postseason, only to "solidify" Kobe and Shaq as stars. And if the NBA wanted them to advance (to get a threepeat) then why risk pushing the series to a game 7?

There's no logic behind any of these arguments...just a lot of accusations. I could give a damn about defending the NBA, but you're not going to convince me it's "fixed" with the information that's available right now.

your "smart arguments" are making you sound stupid. not to mention you are contradicting yourself. First You say that you don't believe they are fixing games because if they fixed one or two series' to produce the outcome they desired then why don't they fix every series to produce their desired outcome every season. Then you follow up by claiming that you dont hold the belief that "either they are fixing everything or they are fixing nothing". There not going to fix the outcome every year at the cost of losing the fans of every other team that is not a "large market"

[Blake]

Point granted about the Mavs playing every other in the WCF. But there were only 2 off days between game 6 and 7 against the Spurs, so it's not like they had any wiggle room in the schedule. Not to mention they only had to travel from SA to Dallas. The NBA could have easily scheduled the WCSF to allow an extra day between the end of one series and the beginning of the next.

eh. I think it was just a screwup on the NBA's part.

Nevertheless, if the Spurs would have won just one more game (against lousy Seattle late in the season) they would have had HCA against the Hornets.....probably would have won in 6 and would have been able to sleep in their own beds instead of on the tarmac.

There's no conspiracy. Just fans that get pissed when their teams lose and things dont go their way.

[Cry Havoc]

eh. I think it was just a screwup on the NBA's part.

Nevertheless, if the Spurs would have won just one more game (against lousy Seattle late in the season) they would have had HCA against the Hornets.....probably would have won in 6 and would have been able to sleep in their own beds instead of on the tarmac.

There's no conspiracy. Just fans that get pissed when their teams lose and things dont go their way.

Just leagues that schedule 4 days between game 6 and game 7.

[SpursFan0728]

Get away with what?? They've "fixed" the NBA so the Spurs could win every other year?

They've fixed the NBA so that the Pistons could make the conference finals every year?

I never stated nor implied that if the league didn't tamper with everything then they've tampered with nothing. I was simply addressing the differen't accusations i've seen tossed around this board, many of which have no logic behind them...kind of like your previous two posts.

If you run a business you're not going to illegally tamper with different aspects of the business without using some type of logic. So what's the logic behind the various things that have transpired over the past 10 years?

I'm not even sure how to respond to your childlike derision due to the fact that you didn't even present an argument.

The points you mention are great

but what i think is games are rigged at a certain level only to boost up TV ratings but not to decide who wins a Championship.
When Donaghy says game 6 was rigged, and if u watch the game, it is quite obvious that the refs wanted the Lakers to take Game 6 and force a game 7. This does not mean the NBA want lakers to Win it all.

I hope this make sense =)

[Blake]

The points you mention are great

but what i think is games are rigged at a certain level only to boost up TV ratings but not to decide who wins a Championship.
When Donaghy says game 6 was rigged, and if u watch the game, it is quite obvious that the refs wanted the Lakers to take Game 6 and force a game 7. This does not mean the NBA want lakers to Win it all.

I hope this make sense =)

but why stop with just getting to a game 7?

with the Finals next up, there is more money to be made with LA in the finals instead of Sacto.

The logic that they would say, "ok, we got our game 7 in the WCF so we don't care about who wins game 7 and advances" doesn't jive.

[SpursFan0728]

but why stop with just getting to a game 7?

with the Finals next up, there is more money to be made with LA in the finals instead of Sacto.

The logic that they would say, "ok, we got our game 7 in the WCF so we don't care about who wins game 7 and advances" doesn't jive.

I think the excitement of a game 7 is beyond Lakers going to the finals because there isn't a team in the east that are le contending. Basically the winner of the west will likely win it all

[Blake]

I think the excitement of a game 7 is beyond Lakers going to the finals because there isn't a team in the east that are le contending. Basically the winner of the west will likely win it all

huh? What has that got to do with ratings.

LA dwarfs Sac in ratings plain and simple. Stern has even said his favorite matchup would be LA vs LA.

[RussN]

With these accusations coming out about the Lakers/Kings playoff series, it's easy to let your mind wander and imagine how many games/series have been rigged these past few years.

Fans have theories on both sides...and I might be in the minority, but i have a problem believing anything that comes from Donaghy's mouth.

I just don't see how small market teams like the Spurs and Pistons could be so successful in a "rigged" NBA system. After ten years (while Spurs stars age) the NBA is just now considering the best financial option?? Why not do this after the first Spurs le?

If Manu's healthy and the Spurs manage to pull out a series victory over the Lakers, is the NBA still rigged? Kobe Shot eleven freethrows the entire series. In the Spurs game 3 win, Kobe shot one freethrow. In the Lakers game 4 win, Kobe didn't shoot a single freethrow. How are the refs rigging games if they aren't even making calls?

As far as the Kings/Lakers series, why would the NBA tamper with a series that already had great ratings? Why not tamper with one of the three most recent series between the Spurs and Suns? If you remember correctly, the NBA cares so much about the ratings that they suspended Amare and Diaw from a very capable Suns team, just last year.

The NBA would rig a single game in a series (with high ratings) to get high ratings, but would allow a team with terrible ratings and a small market to win 4 les in 9 years? And how has another small market (low ratings) team like the Pistons been allowed to see the conference finals for the past 6 years in a row?

Spurs fans should be the least critical of the NBA.

It's rigged by making certain calls at certain times that would not be called in a normal basketball game. They don't plan out the whole series, they just make suttle calls to alter the game.

As for the Suns players being suspended...they had to be, they broke a rule.

If anyone says that the 2008 Spurs-Lakers series was rigged, they are blinded by their fanhood. We did get robbed on one call, but they normally do not make that call in an NBA game. The Lakers beat us fair and square.

If the NBA called the game like an Olympic Ref would call a game I think it would be much better off. It would be REAL basketball.

[RussN]

A TV idiot commented on the NBA and said, "It isn't rigged. If it were rigged the Knicks would be the best team."

Such is the logic of the uninformed. I guess that guy didn't know of Isiah Thomas and the damage he caused which no one (including Stern) could bail him out.

People point to the lottery as proof the lottery isn't rigged, which I agree with.

But there is just so much either bad or crooked officiating can do. While the league would like a Boston/LA 7 game finals every year, that just isn't possible. What is possible is trying to extend any series to 7 games. And what is possible is calling a lot of fouls in a critical game that helps one team and hurts the other. We saw that against the Mavs in the 2006 playoffs.

+1

[BigZak]

the spreads are fixed for certain selected games...usually opposite of the biggest money...



big market, little market, ratings, final outcome of games got nothin to do with it...


that's why even though i believe it's all a big ing show, i still cling to the fact that hopefully the peeps on the take let the best teams win 7 game series...

never seems to be a problem until you get very evenly matched teams where every game can go either way...oh well...go spurs go!

[braeden0613]

I think David Stern could admit that some games were fixed and some people here still wouldnt believe it. We've already had a crooked ref convicted and now some other refs may end up getting investigated. Some people are just not willing to admit this for some reason.