On Oil and Taxes

[clambake]

The largest producer of solar panels for both commercial and residential applications is... BP.

thanks, not all diversity is evil.

[xrayzebra]

thanks, not all diversity is evil.

Not to forget the great PR. Going green is the
in thing. Just read our forum.....

[Extra Stout]

Not to forget the great PR. Going green is the
in thing. Just read our forum.....

We're not all that far away from solar technology being the cheapest and easiest way to generate electricity. BP and their ilk are just looking ahead.

Once researchers get over the UV stabilization hurdle, photovoltaic electropolymers can be embedded into everything. Rather than people having to install solar panels on their roofs, the shingles themselves will conduct electricity. Pretty cool. My company is collaborating on some research projects because our product would make a great substrate for several applications.

[clambake]

Not to forget the great PR. Going green is the
in thing. Just read our forum.....

going green is good, ray.

so is tobacco and waste management, annuities, and rail.

union pacific just gave a 2 for 1 stock split. good times.

you remember texas pacific, missouri pacific?

[clambake]

We're not all that far away from solar technology being the cheapest and easiest way to generate electricity. BP and their ilk are just looking ahead.

Once researchers get over the UV stabilization hurdle, photovoltaic electropolymers can be embedded into everything. Rather than people having to install solar panels on their roofs, the shingles themselves will conduct electricity. Pretty cool. My company is collaborating on some research projects because our product would make a great substrate for several applications.

silicon crystals are so fragile. is that the research you're trying to improve?

[Extra Stout]

silicon crystals are so fragile. is that the research you're trying to improve?

The idea is to move away from silicon.

The bottleneck with silicon is the high cost of purification, not its brittleness.

[Extra Stout]

going green is good, ray.

so is tobacco and waste management, annuities, and rail.

union pacific just gave a 2 for 1 stock split. good times.

you remember texas pacific, missouri pacific?

I know a fellow who started up a rail terminal company a few years back. That made some money, so he thought it would be a good idea to buy up a bunch of ethanol rail cars. That made some more money, so he built some more rail terminals and bought others.

Apparently he's good at business and stuff.

[clambake]

I know a fellow who started up a rail terminal company a few years back. That made some money, so he thought it would be a good idea to buy up a bunch of ethanol rail cars. That made some more money, so he built some more rail terminals and bought others.

Apparently he's good at business and stuff.

pacific rail has been around for ever.

why didn't you get involved with that fellow's project? not on the table?

[RandomGuy]

They don't have the yellow-and-green Abita dumpsters for paper?

I don't know. I need to do some research into it.

[Extra Stout]

pacific rail has been around for ever.

why didn't you get involved with that fellow's project? not on the table?

It's not a public company and I'm not a millionaire.

[RandomGuy]

When I was younger it wasn't a priority to find out. There just wasn't that many people in Texas in those days. A/C hadn't been invented, so we didn't have many yankee's wanting to come down. Everyone here was pretty busy just trying to make ends meet. You knew just about everything about everyone.

AC was invented in about 1850 or so, but the patent was long forgotten until it was reininvented in about 1900 or so. That makes you pretty darn old.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_conditioning

(yes, I know what you mean, I'm just kidding. AC wasn't widespread until after 1950 or so)

[RandomGuy]

The idea is to move away from silicon.

The bottleneck with silicon is the high cost of purification, not its brittleness.

I have had a question or two about silicon that perhaps you know:

If you had access to a zero-g environment and a lot of energy, would it be easier to purify silicon?

How easy would it be to manufacture solar panels based on silicon in space?
(assuming large amounts of both energy and materials were available, I am not worried about logistics of supply, merely the ease of manufacture)

[RandomGuy]

You're not thinking forward. You're thinking right now.
Back then when we had near infinite amount of oil supply, and our entire infrastructure was based on combustion engines, it was the obvious choice to keep using what we had. It was more economical than exploring alternatives. Plus the technology didn't exist to have an all-electric or all-hydrogen car that was usable.
Right now oil supply is meeting demand, and it will get worse over time on the demand side. It's a limited resource. Simple as that.
Many companies have spent a lot of money on alternative energy sources. That's why we have solar panels, wind turbines, etc.
As far as cars are concerned, the technology right now can build an all-electric car that can do ~220 miles on a single charge. The cost can vary between 1 to 4 cents per mile, depending when and where you charge your car. The beauty of all-electric is that you can charge pretty much anywhere. The infrastructure cost is minimal, plus electricity can be generated from solar, wind, hydro, etc that are pretty clean sources.
Hydrogen can also currently do about ~220 miles on a single fuel cell. The biggest caveat being that a lot of infrastructure will need to be built to handle it.

My biggest beef with lawmakers is that it's unfortunate they keep feeding the Detroit cartel with incentives and tax breaks, while it's mostly foreign and independent companies that build and bring to market actual cars with innovative technology. I'm sure that at least the independent company could have used a tax break or a 30 million incentive from the government while developing their car.

The biggest hurdle for fuel cells:
Platinum

Platinum is used as a catalyst in fuel cells from what I understand. It is not consumed, its presence just allows something to happen that wouldn't otherwise. Given the recent run up in precious metals/commodities represent a problem for widespread use of such fuel cells.

Big $$$ for someone who can find a cheaper material to do the same thing.

I think the job market for material engineers and chemists will be good in the next 20 years.

[Extra Stout]

I have had a question or two about silicon that perhaps you know:

If you had access to a zero-g environment and a lot of energy, would it be easier to purify silicon?

How easy would it be to manufacture solar panels based on silicon in space?
(assuming large amounts of both energy and materials were available, I am not worried about logistics of supply, merely the ease of manufacture)

I have no idea how zero-g would help silicon purification. I must be missing something.

There is a molten salt-based process that allegedly uses less energy than the current methods using hot intermediate gases.

[Extra Stout]

The biggest hurdle for fuel cells:
Platinum

Platinum is used as a catalyst in fuel cells from what I understand. It is not consumed, its presence just allows something to happen that wouldn't otherwise. Given the recent run up in precious metals/commodities represent a problem for widespread use of such fuel cells.

Big $$$ for someone who can find a cheaper material to do the same thing.

I think the job market for material engineers and chemists will be good in the next 20 years.

Platinum is not the only catalyst. There are catalysts out of nickel or even iron that work in fuel cells.

[Don Quixote]

All this stuff about oil and silicon is good ... but what does this have to do with TEXAS?

[RandomGuy]

Platinum is not the only catalyst. There are catalysts out of nickel or even iron that work in fuel cells.

I know. But when one is talking about weight/efficiency, my understanding is that platinum wins, hands down.

I have no doubt that SOMETHING else will eventually be used, and that they are researching it now, though.

[RandomGuy]

All this stuff about oil and silicon is good ... but what does this have to do with TEXAS?

Silicon=solar=Sunny places=Texas.

[Extra Stout]

All this stuff about oil and silicon is good ... but what does this have to do with TEXAS?

You know those hot Texas summer days when the sun beats down on your house and the electric meter spins furiously because of the A/C?

Imagine the same meter spinning furiously in the opposite direction.

[boutons_]

"A/C"

anybody tried living in SA hot months w/o any a/c at all?

[RandomGuy]

You know those hot Texas summer days when the sun beats down on your house and the electric meter spins furiously because of the A/C?

Imagine the same meter spinning furiously in the opposite direction.

That is the BIG advantage of solar. It is active at the same time that you use most of your power, i.e. during the day when it is hot.

[Don Quixote]

You know those hot Texas summer days when the sun beats down on your house and the electric meter spins furiously because of the A/C?

Imagine the same meter spinning furiously in the opposite direction.

The thread le all makes sense now. Thanks!

[xrayzebra]

Hey Scott. Two things. I can remember here in Texas when the Permian Basin was the center of oil and oil was selling for next to nothing, they stacked rigs. Then when it went up they couldn't find or buy enough rigs to get into the fields. So, somehow this doesn't fit into the picture you have painted. OILCO's drilled but most drilling was done by independents. I had an uncle that worked with lots of wildcatters. He worked them all,
cable tools and rotary and did it all from dressing tools to driller to tool pusher. Another uncle who was a roughneck and got killed by falling out of a rig into the tools on the floor.

Another thing. Listening to Rush today........waiting till all the catcalls die down.........a lady called in today who had been a trader on the floor of Wall Street and she made the statement, which I had made, and was scoffed at, that if they opened up ANWR and other areas and announced that they were going to start drilling the cost of oil would more than likely fall by 30-40 dollars almost
immediately. Rush said, yeah, but none would be produced for 10 years, her comment, yes, but traders are trading into the future and that is what they base their price on. And she made a valid point. Crude feel today on news that the Saudis were going to start producing from a newly developed field. And on the stronger dollar.
Any comments.

Added: She also said she though oil was in a bubble right now and
could have a dramatic fall in price.

[RandomGuy]

Hey Scott. Two things. I can remember here in Texas when the Permian Basin was the center of oil and oil was selling for next to nothing, they stacked rigs. Then when it went up they couldn't find or buy enough rigs to get into the fields. So, somehow this doesn't fit into the picture you have painted. OILCO's drilled but most drilling was done by independents. I had an uncle that worked with lots of wildcatters. He worked them all,
cable tools and rotary and did it all from dressing tools to driller to tool pusher. Another uncle who was a roughneck and got killed by falling out of a rig into the tools on the floor.

Another thing. Listening to Rush today........waiting till all the catcalls die down.........a lady called in today who had been a trader on the floor of Wall Street and she made the statement, which I had made, and was scoffed at, that if they opened up ANWR and other areas and announced that they were going to start drilling the cost of oil would more than likely fall by 30-40 dollars almost
immediately. Rush said, yeah, but none would be produced for 10 years, her comment, yes, but traders are trading into the future and that is what they base their price on. And she made a valid point. Crude feel today on news that the Saudis were going to start producing from a newly developed field. And on the stronger dollar.
Any comments.

Added: She also said she though oil was in a bubble right now and
could have a dramatic fall in price.

Honestly, nobody really has a handle yet on exactly how and why oil is going up, and when/if it may go down.

Certainly futures trading is figuring into it, but to what exact degree, no one really knows.

I imagine in a few years there will be a consensus, but for now, most experts are kinda shaking their heads, as I am sure scott will attest to when he gets back from his fishing trip.

The recent introduction of futures traders to the mix as well as the complication that oil is sold in dollars, makes it REALLY hard to say much with any degree of certainty about the current/future price of oil.

[xrayzebra]

Honestly, nobody really has a handle yet on exactly how and why oil is going up, and when/if it may go down.

Certainly futures trading is figuring into it, but to what exact degree, no one really knows.

I imagine in a few years there will be a consensus, but for now, most experts are kinda shaking their heads, as I am sure scott will attest to when he gets back from his fishing trip.

The recent introduction of futures traders to the mix as well as the complication that oil is sold in dollars, makes it REALLY hard to say much with any degree of certainty about the current/future price of oil.

Think he will have a fish fry. I'll buy the beer....