Cops kill man who beat toddler to death....GOOD!!!

[Extra Stout]

Wow, this got deep.

We're all going to have differences on the appropriate punishment. The bigger problem I have is with a bunch of pussy ass Californians standing there and not doing about it.

You've got a group of at least 4 people and they stand and watch an infant get beat to death because 'they tried to pull the guy off the kid, but he pushed them off.'

Take his ass to the ground, start beating his ass, occupy him long enough for someone to pull the toddler away, etc.

Typical sorry ass left coast pacifistic pussies.

I suspect in Texas it would have happened as you say. Interesting but unsubstantiable anecdote:

In the 1970's, in rough neighborhoods in New York, a woman could be raped in broad daylight in public, and bystanders would ignore her screams as they walked on by.

Since 9/11, New Yorkers respond more like the way you propose.

[BRHornet45]

good job from the police officer, but oh don't worry im sure the Democrats will be screaming for this officer to be fired and jailed for using his gun.

[Don Quixote]

If this had happened in New Orleans, and the dead guy were a member of a certain sensitive group, you're darn right the libs would be screaming for the cop's head.

[Don Quixote]

Pragmatically, capital punishment in this country makes little sense. In order to maintain a frequency of false conviction low enough that society will accept it, we keep an appeals process which incurs legal fees that exceed the cost of lifetime imprisonment. The duration between conviction and execution usually is so long that the deterrence of shortened lifespan to a criminal is discounted to nil. So it costs us more money and prevents zero additional crimes. The reason we keep it around, I think, is because citizens either are ignorant of those facts, or are more satisfied with the vengeance exacted in killing a murderer.

Now it is true that legal costs could be greatly reduced if we greatly streamlined the appeals process, to the point that society could save money through the execution of criminals. However, the trade-off would be that the state would kill many more innocent people, a consequence I do not find morally tenable.

The theology behind my position centers around the value of human life and the at ude of society towards it. To a Christian, human life is quadruply precious, since humans are given life from God, since humans are made in the image of God, since God in Jesus Christ was made into human likeness, and since Jesus Christ submitted to death in order to save human beings. The taking of human life therefore is a terrible tragedy, a miscarriage of the intent in creation, and a residue of the effects of the Fall. As this informs my ideology, I then hold that the state through its jurisprudence likewise should hold a high view of human life, evensofar as not to exact vengeance through killing except when in and of itself it is necessary to protect other human life. The narrative underlying this thread gives an example of this, although tragically the infant already had been murdered.

The state is granted civil authority to punish transgressions against civil law. It is just that if a person fails to abide by the laws of his society, that he therefore lose the privileges within that society as well, including his individual freedom. The state holds up its responsibility to its citizens by removing from among them those who pose a violent danger to it. But when the state holds that certain crimes are heinous enough to warrant execution as a matter of vengeance, it then holds up Law as a higher ideal than the human life Law is ostensibly intended to protect. Incarceration, isolation, and hard labor as punishment do not equal the taking of life by the criminal, but under the ideal state, that is not the point anyway.

I basically agree with your take on capital punishment. Your theological approach is robust and solid -- my only concern is that scripture yet permits the state to have it (OT), or accepts it as a reality (NT). So, I lean against it, but I'm not full-out 100% against it.

I'd prefer these vile offenders suffer good and long.

[BRHornet45]

If this had happened in New Orleans, and the dead guy were a member of a certain sensitive group, you're darn right the libs would be screaming for the cop's head.

LOL son at you poking fun at New Orleans. I am so highly offended.

son nice signature of Muhammad Hussein Obama

[Extra Stout]

I basically agree with your take on capital punishment. Your theological approach is robust and solid -- my only concern is that scripture yet permits the state to have it (OT), or accepts it as a reality (NT). So, I lean against it, but I'm not full-out 100% against it.

I'd prefer these vile offenders suffer good and long.

I don't think ancient Israel had quite the capacity for locking up violent offenders that the United States of America has. Much of OT law quite obviously applies to the reality of an ancient society, and is shared in common with contemporaries to ancient Israel.

The NT accepts the reality of the state as it is. Paul is very clear about respecting the existing civil authorities. Remember this is in the context of Jews expecting a Messiah who would overthrow the Romans and reestablish the Davidic kingdom, contrasted with Jesus' teaching that his kingdom is not of this world. The formula "Jesus is Lord; there is no other name under heaven by which men may be saved" was subversive enough in the Roman Empire.

It is theologically important to note that Christianity does not prescribe a social order for the entire society the way Islam does. Augustine came along later and superimposed a Christian social order over Biblical truth which was erroneous and frankly quite awful, though quite popular among medieval Western rulers looking to use Christianity as a means to power.

Nevertheless, in the American system where people theoretically have a say in their government, the application of Christian principles to political science is a worthy endeavor, so far as it actually deals with virtues, rather than power claims.

[Brutalis]

Did he at least suffer first like the child did?

[Don Quixote]

It is theologically important to note that Christianity does not prescribe a social order for the entire society the way Islam does. Augustine came along later and superimposed a Christian social order over Biblical truth which was erroneous and frankly quite awful, though quite popular among medieval Western rulers looking to use Christianity as a means to power.

Nevertheless, in the American system where people theoretically have a say in their government, the application of Christian principles to political science is a worthy endeavor, so far as it actually deals with virtues, rather than power claims.

Another good post. You are quite right that Christianity does not resemble Islam in its relation to the state. I don't quite share your dim view of Augustine, but I can admit that maybe he was, um, wrong on this count.

I think we agree that American Christians ought to have a say in how the country is governed, just like all Americans. I particularly like how we ought to speak from a position of wanting virtue, not merely power. And the virtuous thing, in this case, would be ... ?

[Don Quixote]

LOL son at you poking fun at New Orleans. I am so highly offended.

son nice signature of Muhammad Hussein Obama

I have room to talk -- I LIVE in New Orleans. Have since 2005.

And you like my Obama porn?

[BRHornet45]

I have room to talk -- I LIVE in New Orleans. Have since 2005.

And you like my Obama porn?

we should get drunk then son. although I gotta ask ... are you for Obama or is that picture mocking him? it's bad enough your a Spurs fan, hopefully your not a Democrat too.

[Don Quixote]

I post my Obama porn to appease, and show my sincerest regrets to, his supporters for ever having made fun of, mocked, or questioned the character or politics of their Anointed One, praise be unto him. I am repenting. Yes we can!

I am also in search of a way to show my contrition for ever having been a conservative Reaganite.

[Don Quixote]

I have a fair amount of Obama porn in my collections -- art or literature by his followers.

I saw a tee-shirt being worn by an older lady (Chinese place at Elysian Fields and Gentilly), with a big pic of a smiling Obama, PBUH, with Dr. King, Malcolm X, and Rosa Parks in the background. I wanted to take a pic of it but I didn't have my camera.

[BRHornet45]

I have a fair amount of Obama porn in my collections -- art or literature by his followers.

I saw a tee-shirt being worn by an older lady (Chinese place at Elysian Fields and Gentilly), with a big pic of a smiling Obama, PBUH, with Dr. King, Malcolm X, and Rosa Parks in the background. I wanted to take a pic of it but I didn't have my camera.

oh dear god son are you kidding me? that is hilarious lol

as far as politics goes. Libertarian is the way to go.

[Brutalis]

I have a fair amount of Obama porn in my collections -- art or literature by his followers.

I saw a tee-shirt being worn by an older lady (Chinese place at Elysian Fields and Gentilly), with a big pic of a smiling Obama, PBUH, with Dr. King, Malcolm X, and Rosa Parks in the background. I wanted to take a pic of it but I didn't have my camera.

Don't fret. You know some good ole southern boy will take him out before he even sits in the oval office.

Not that I condone it............

[MateoNeygro]

i would have punch him in the heart and made it explode

[RandomGuy]

No one pointed out the guy was beating the "demons" out of the kid.

This suggests a few possibilities:

1) He was suffering from some form of meningitis (brain infection), and this commonly causes psychosis, paranoia and other violent behavior if untreated.

2) He was simply really that insane and it just got so bad that he went over the edge.

3) He was on some sort of drug bender that caused him to lose connection with reality.

He could have also simply been a violent, evil person, as has been suggested.

Such people usually aren't concerned with "demons", and that tends to indicate someone hearing voices.

Just thought I would throw that bit in there. Reality is not always so cut and dried.

[smeagol]

Cowards.

I was told by people who post on ST that you should not intervene in other peoples fights.

Interesting to hear them out regarding this horrific case . . .

[smeagol]

I always wondered why people who are against the death penalty ususally state that it is inhumane.

On the other hand, they prefer that these criminals who murder, spend their life behind bars, which is pretty inhumane in itself.