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04 Pistons.
Better team won, but Billups injury did affect him for the first three games. Billups played better as the series progressed. One could argue the Pistons may have stolen game 1 as well if Billups had been right. Moot point, but the injury to Billups did play a role early on in the series.
04 Pistons.
I posted this somewhere else, and haven't posted here in awhile but i had to when i saw this thread.
The 08' Celtics being better than the 04' Pistons ?
Bull . No way possible. Not even in someone's dreams. That 04 Pistons defense would shred BOS. LB would kill Doc Rivers in the coaching department. KG's choking would be on full display. Ben would scare the crap out of him. Prince would be effective on Pierce because we'd actually keep him out of the paint. I could go on . . .
A fossil version of Ben did a good job on KG in the Cavs series which if anyone recalls BOS almost lost to a one man team with a defense able to choke off most of their options that doesn't even rival the Pistons.
I mean really if the Wallace combo can be semi-effective on Duncan, you're telling me they can't shut down KG?
And yes the Pistons offense in 04 was underrated, and besides that they generated tons of offense in the open court, and off their defense. They actually moved the ball in half-court sets, and didn't play re ed iso ball that seemed to be the theme of the Flip era.
The Pistons were not sissies on the road, and their defense was for the most part consistent something BOS lacked even in the finals.
BOS is so overrated. Just because they were the best team THIS year means nothing esp w/ the weak compe ion they played in the finals. PP dragged KG kicking and screaming to the finish line.
'04 Pistons without a doubt. Their defense was even better than the Celtics'.
Billups is stronger and bigger than rondo plus you have billups young feet in 04 so...
Billups>Rondo
You have Ben Wallace who was the DPY that year or the year after with fresh and young legs, he will dominate defensively inside the paint where KG was most effective against the lakers
Now that Rasheed Wallace doesnt have to worry about the center he would do just find guarding Lamar Odom and + he has a nice perimeter to his game
Kobe will have to be guarded by Tashuyan Prince and with Prince's long arms he wont stop kobe but he will do good against him.. although I still think Kobe will average more than 20+ ppg.
Pistons in 7
04 Pistons
They beat Kobe with Shaq and a couple more HoFers. This was the 3peat Lakers last Hurrah season that came up short and still hurts to this day.
I think the 09 Bulls have something to say about that....
They would say we agree with what jack sommerset said.
Almost. Took the Spurs 7 games to beat them with HCA. If the Pistons had the HC that year, they would probably have repeated.
Psitons were no doubt the more balanced team. What got the Spurs over the line was the greatness of Duncan, the tenacity of Ginobili and the clutchness of Horry. Those are intangibles the Celtics don't even understand...
Toss up between the Pistons and the Heat. I'll forever love both teams for keeping Karl Malone and Mark Cuban ringless.
It would be interesting to see those 2 teams go at it. But something to keep in mind here, the Pistons guards and their overall perimeter defense was so good in 04 largely because the league hadn't yet enacted the no hand check rule. If they were to play by the old rules, I'd give the edge to Detroit. But honestly, once that rule went into place, it took away from our defensive abilities quite a bit.
The '04 Pistons were such a well rounded team. People forget just how well rounded they were. Tayshaun was still rested at that point in his career. Sheed was energized from the trade and his defense would have been sufficient on KG with Ben anchoring the help-side. Corliss of the bench was money, and a complete reversal from Tashaun (offense for defense switch, inside scoring for outside scoring switch.) The combo of Lindsay Hunter and Mike James was such a contrast from Rip Hamilton and a still-tough-minded Chauncy Billups that it caused opposing teams fits (Chauncy and Rip couldn't defend for their lives, and Bips would both drive and hit clutch shots and Rip had that unique mid range game, while James and Hunter were like rabid dogs defending, and James could drive, while Hunter could hit the three... it was devastating when they switched).
The Pistons were the master of the 'different look', along with the 2nd deepest bench in the NBA 3 years running (Okur was a bench player, and was almost as good as Ben Wallace on D, and better than Sheed at the 3).
Oh, and they had a monumental defense, and beat 2 of the other most monumental defensive squads in a row in NJ and IND.
I see a lot of similarities between the Celtics and those Pistons. More than people give them credit for. The coaching was fairly equal on both squads. Both were kind of anemic on offense at times, but much of that came from playing in the defensively superior Eastern Conference. So the numbers are misleading.
PP and Bips cancel each other out in 2004. Sheed and Ben '04 easily counter KG/Co on defense alone, as KG was having a hard time scoring anyways (keep in mind, this is the Duo, along with Okur that held Shaq in check with single coverage BEFORE the Rasheed trade).
Pistons bench was a little deeper, and the starters for the Celts were a little better. And the Pistons and the Celtics both had things to prove and were VERY hungry.
It would be a crazy series.
The 2006 Heat had no business being in the Finals (were pushed in) and defeated a team that shouldn't have been in the finals to begin with (Spurs should have been there, the NBA messed things up bad), just as the 2005 Pistons had no business in the Finals (Wade got hurt), nor the 2007 Cavs (perfect storm)...
Celts '08 and Pistons '04 were the only teams worthy of of their Finals berths from the EC from 2004 on.
Last edited by jacobdrj; 06-18-2008 at 09:06 PM.
I think they would have taken out the 05 Spurs (factoring Duncan's ankles in) and probably the 07 Spurs.
01 lakers. we only lost one game in the playoffs...beat THAT!!
so did the 83 76ers...01 lakers. we only lost one game in the playoffs...beat THAT!!
Lakers08Chumps must be dyslexic. We're talking East here.
04 Pistons gets my vote. we haven't seen the 08 Celts beat a truly monstrous defensive team this playoffs (Cavs & 08 Pistons don't count)
at you comparing the Celtics defense to the Suns. Celts O is good but it wasnt the backbone of their team. It was their defense and has been the case all season long. There is no other way to say it Stretch. The Celts defense is that ing good. On the stat sheet and on the court it showed. Stretch deep down inside you that too. Let your hate for the Celts go.
The only reason LA managed to make that game 2 comeback was because Boston let their guard down. They were up 24 with 7-8 minutes left in the 4th and then all of a sudden they thought the Lakers would quit trying. Thats why you saw them treating a 30 point lead like a 1 point lead throughout the 2nd half last night.the entire series is proof of that... they got hot, hit everything, and the Lakers would lose focus and take ty shots (except for that game the Lakers came back from being down a bunch, cuz they actually started taking good shots and driving straight at KG in the 4th and were able to get some easy buckets and momentum.
The difference between this Celtic D and the Suns D is the Celtics can play it on any given night for a full 48 minutes. That is what this team has been about all season long. Pistons/Spurs/Rockets had a top notch defense for consecutive years. It's way too premature to put the Celts in that class. If they can do this for a few more years, then we can bring that conversation up. Until then, 1 year just isnt enough.the only difference between that Phoenix defense and this Celtics defense, is that the Celtics actually have people that can guard the paint. But their defense is no where close to being as good as that Pistons team, or any Spurs team of the past 8 years or so. Not even as good as the Rockets have been the past several years.
Actually I don't hate the Celtics one bit. I just think their defense is massively overrated. Its not a bad defense by any means ,but the fact is, the ONLY time they "shut down" opponents, is when they are hitting their shots. they are not like the Spurs and Pistons. You cannot count on them to win a game with defense when their shot is not falling. Granted, it doesnt happen often, because their offense is very very solid and balanced. But if they arent hitting shots, they arent winning the game with defense.
and you really have no reason to talk to me. remember what happened last time... *cough* *cough* 18*-1 *cough*
I agree they let their guard down some, but also, the Lakers started playing MUCH smarter, and driving the ball, getting to the line, and taking SMART open jumpshots.
According to Doc Rivers in his 4th quarter interview the other night, they have a problem with that.
And IMO, Celtic fans better enjoy this, because this Celtics team is not winning any more les. Too many good up-and-coming teams, while the Celtics are getting older. I cannot see them beating Lebron next year, considering how awful his team was, yet he still took the Celtics to 7 games, despite some very "2006 Finals" type officiating in favor of the Celtics. Atlanta is definitely an up and coming team. Who knows what Philly may do. Orlando will only get better. And don't expect Stern to bail you guys out again next year, now that all this "fixing" stuff has been coming out lately...
04 pistons was the best
heat was funded by the refs
celtics was from sterns, what i wish, comes true
04 pistons no doubt.Celts D is very overrated.
However,the 06 heat were the best at sleeping with the refs and getting to the line. The 06 Mavs didnt have that physical of a defense to allow 95+ free throws from one player.
That's a key point - the rule change makes the comparison pretty hard to draw. All Detroit's great defensive marks from that season have to be viewed in that light. Pistons' D in '04 was better than the current Celts is, but we don't know how this Celts team would have fared under the old rule - it's theoretically conceivable their D would have been as good or better than Detroit's.
Still, I'd pick the '04 Pistons, on the grounds that beating the "Fab Four" Lakers in 5 is more impressive than beating the current squad in 6.
Pistons in a heartbeat. They faced a team in LA that stood absolutely no chance guarding them and challenging them in terms of mental toughness (and the C's aren't even that tough mentally, which goes to show just how soft LA is).
Prince would be for Pierce, Big Ben/Wallace would give Garnett a lot of trouble. The series would come down to how well Billups plays, just like this year. They would have been in the Finals IMO if they were playing w/ a healthy Buillups.
Pistons and Celtics were the two best teams this year.
That goes for just about every team. You need both to win it all in this league. If your offense cant score enough points, it doesnt matter how good your defense is. The Celts werent hitting their shots in game 6 vs Detroit and game 4 vs LA yet they came back not just because of an offensive surge but their D as well. Boston started game 6 vs LA off horribly yet they were right there thanks to their D. Again I am not going to put them on the Spurs/Larry Brown Pistons category so it's not point in arguing about that. That Larry Brown Piston team had a good enough O as well to help out their D. Same with those Spurs teams. The O doesnt have to be great but it has to be productive. You need balance to win championships in the NBA.
Actually stretch I am not talking by any means. However if I wanted to, I would have every right to because my team was the last one standing.and you really have no reason to talk to me. remember what happened last time... *cough* *cough* 18*-1 *cough*
Thanks to boston relaxing with a 24 point lead with 7-8 minutes to go in the 4th. If Boston hadnt relaxed, LA doesnt make it that interesting.I agree they let their guard down some, but also, the Lakers started playing MUCH smarter, and driving the ball, getting to the line, and taking SMART open jumpshots.
Changed have to had.According to Doc Rivers in his 4th quarter interview the other night, they have a problem with that.
And IMO, Celtic fans better enjoy this, because this Celtics team is not winning any more les. Too many good up-and-coming teams, while the Celtics are getting older. I cannot see them beating Lebron next year, considering how awful his team was, yet he still took the Celtics to 7 games, despite some very "2006 Finals" type officiating in favor of the Celtics. Atlanta is definitely an up and coming team. Who knows what Philly may do. Orlando will only get better. And don't expect Stern to bail you guys out again next year, now that all this "fixing" stuff has been coming out lately...
Also how do you know this Celts team isnt winning anymore les? This team easily has another 2 strong years left in them. KG/Pierce/Allen arent anywhere near done and Rondo/Perkins are young. Posey is a damn good role player as is Leon Powe. Gabe Pruitt could be something next year at the backup pg spot. Cassell/Brown you can call done but everyone else isnt. Plus they have the MLE to use for more depth.
They didnt need a David Stern fix to be crowned champions. They were the best team in basketball this season and they proved it especially as the playoffs went on. They arent unbeatable by any means either.
Stretch you claim to not hate the Celts yet you throw the conspiracy bull card at them. Only someone who hates the Celtics would say something like that.
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