MVP? More like MIA

[baseline bum]

The revisionist history going on here is laughable. It sounds like 99% of you did not even watch Jordan in the 80's and 90's and all you know of him is the highlights you see on TV.

Jordan faced a very similar defense to the Celtics in the 80's against the Pistons. He tried to do it all by himself and failed miserably. I mean miserably. So much so that people wrote him off as a player incapable of leading a team to a championship, much like the criticisms of Kobe now. Maybe a Jordan in his prime shoots a bit higher FG%, maybe he stops Pierce a couple more times, but he doesn't change this outcome one iota. Celtics are still winning and it has far more to do with the other Laker role players than it does anything else.

You mean like the series Jordan averaged 32 ppg in 1990, and took Detroit to 7, while having two games in the 40s? Or when he put up 30 a game in 89? His worst series against Detroit was 88, when he dropped 27 points and 9 boards a game.

LMAO @ your dumb ass trying to compare the 08 Celtics to the Bad Boys.

[san antonio spurs]

You mean like the series Jordan averaged 32 ppg in 1990, and took Detroit to 7, while having two games in the 40s? Or when he put up 30 a game in 89? His worst series against Detroit was 88, when he dropped 27 points and 9 boards a game.

LMAO @ your dumb ass trying to compare the 08 Celtics to the Bad Boys.

Not only that but Jordan wasn't the veteran that Kobe is now.

[DazedAndConfused]

You clearly did not watch Jordan in the 80's so this discussion ends here. Learn some NBA history, yes it's true the NBA existed before the Spurs and Tim Duncan.

And yes the Celtics are one of the best defensive teams this league has seen, even more so with the addition of zone defenses. Statistically they are the best in the last 25 years.

[DazedAndConfused]

Not only that but Jordan wasn't the veteran that Kobe is now.

Yup he was just NBA MVP and NBA defensive player of the year.

[O-Factor]

Not only that but Jordan wasn't the veteran that Kobe is now.

AND he showed more heart and no quit.

[DazedAndConfused]

The bottomline is you need a TEAM to beat the Celtics. One player is not going to do it all by his lonesome, not even the greatest to ever lace em up.

[PM5K]

LMAO @ your dumb ass trying to compare the 08 Celtics to the Bad Boys.

Yup, he totally lost the argument when he said that...

[san antonio spurs]

The bottomline is you need a TEAM to beat the Celtics. One player is not going to do it all by his lonesome, not even the greatest to ever lace em up.

I thought u had a team? And a pretty good one, or not?

[PM5K]

The bottomline is you need a TEAM to beat the Celtics. One player is not going to do it all by his lonesome, not even the greatest to ever lace em up.

Nobody is denying that it takes a team effort to beat any other team, including the Celtics, what I'm saying is that the same Lakers team lead by Jordan would have been a different team than the one lead by Bryant.

You can't say that don't have a team with the players they have, they made it all the way to the Finals, but they were missing something that Kobe didn't bring, something Jordan would have...

[DazedAndConfused]

The Lakers were missing a defensive DNA that the Celtics had. That has more to do with the coaching staff and the individual players themselves than Kobe Bryant. Michael Jordan would not have single-handedly fixed that.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

The bottomline is you need a TEAM to beat the Celtics. One player is not going to do it all by his lonesome, not even the greatest to ever lace em up.

That argument doesn't hold up.
Lebron was a game 7 win away from doing it to this same Boston Celtics defense all by HIS lonesome. And Kobe had one of the deepest teams in the league this year.

[Manu Pacquiao]

http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-plaschk...5112683.column

MVP? More like MIA
Kobe Bryant made just seven of 22 mostly wild shots. He had just one assist. He had four turnovers. The league MVP was unable to carry a team that needed carrying.
June 18, 2008

BOSTON — In the end, the chant became fact, the screaming pleas of throaty New Englanders transposed into a sinking reality for silent Angelenos.

In the end, the crazy dream that the Lakers could quickly turn dysfunction into destiny ended when the Boston Celtics slowly turned them into chowder.


L.A. Beat.

And how.

An NBA Finals that began with the Lakers spraying wild streams of hope across the Southland ended Tuesday with those same Lakers in a small and embarrassed puddle.

Which the Celtics splashed through. Again and again. Loudly and messily and triumphantly in a 39-point victory that gave them their record 17th NBA championship.

The final score in Game 6 was Celtics 131, Lakers 92.

The final count in Finals games was Celtics 4, Lakers 2.

The final scene was green and white confetti blanketing brown parquet, small tears blanketing giant cheeks, fans tumbling over barricades onto the floor as the Lakers tried to escape.

"Man, man, man," said the Celtics' Kevin Garnett, saying it all.

The final cheers were heartfelt songs filled with the relief of fans who have waited 22 years since the Celtics' last le.

But the final chants were more compelling, because they were directed at you-know-who.

In his best chance at establishing his legacy as a championship player without Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe Bryant was seemingly burdened by something even heavier.

He made just seven of 22 mostly wild shots. He had just one assist. He had four turnovers.

The league MVP was

AWFUL, unable to break through even the most basic of one-on-one Celtic defenses, unable to carry a team that needed carrying.

In the six games of the series, he shot poorly, led inconsistently, had only one really dramatic moment, and that was on defense.

And, so, in voices that seemingly shook the TD Banknorth Garden, with Bryant standing at the foul line in the third quarter, here came those chants.

"You're . . . not . . . Jordan!" the fans sang, referring to Michael Jordan.

No, clearly, at this point he is not.

When Bryant began the fourth quarter on the bench with his team trailing by 29 points, they chanted again.

"Where . . . is . . . Kobe?" they sang even louder.


Today even the most diehard Bryant fans must be asking themselves the same thing, in wondering how far he can lead a team by himself.

"Once you taste defeat, that makes you a little tougher," said Bryant.

Other Lakers were just as deserving of the jeers.

Lamar Odom had two baskets and three turnovers and not one offensive rebound for a team that combined for a stunningly low two.

Pau Gasol had four baskets and five turnovers and the indignity of being forced into a jump ball by a guy -- Garnett -- using just one hand at the time.

"I thought we played on our heels from the very get-go," said Coach Phil Jackson. "They overran us. . . . We never met that energy all night tonight."

Before the game, if the Lakers were to lose, I was considering writing a column extolling this season's amazing turnaround and applauding them for an inspiring effort that ended at the feet of a clearly better team.

Before the game, if the Lakers were to lose, I was reminding everyone how their best inside player was in street clothes, and how Andrew Bynum's return next season should make them NBA favorites.

But after what happened in the game, how could any of us believe any of that?

They need more than Bynum. They need toughness in the middle. They needed maturity everywhere.

"We were surprised we were here, and we're glad that we had an opportunity," Jackson said. "But whenever you get this opportunity, you don't want to let it slip away, and we did."

How bad did it slip?

In the last seven minutes of the second quarter, the Celtics outscored the Lakers, 26-6, with a lineup that included three Celtic subs.

How bad did it look?

Garnett stalked around the court waving and chanting, a pep rally celebration -- with 5:07 left in the game.

The fans began chanting, "Nah-nah-nah-nah . . . goodbye" -- with 4:53 left.

Paul Pierce began doing a disco dance on the Celtic bench -- with 2:21 left.

Speaking of bad, yeah, the guy who began the series being carried off the floor and placed into a wheelchair was the Series MVP, an award that Pierce should place next to his Oscar.

"This is unreal," said Pierce in his acceptance speech.

I agree. I picked the Lakers to win in five games. The Lakers could not have won this series if it had gone 25 games.

I discounted that the Celtics' three veteran stars -- two of them acquired last summer -- would not be denied the championship that had thus far eluded them.

I didn't give them enough credit, and I gave some of the untested Lakers way too much credit.

So, too, apparently, did Jackson, who took the unusual step of threatening roster moves even before the cheering stopped.

"We have to get some players if we're going to come back and repeat, to have that kind of aggressiveness that we need," he said.

So when they return next fall, some of the Lakers might be new.

After this awful farewell, it is hoped that some of them will also be improved.

Fair weather .

[DazedAndConfused]

That argument doesn't hold up.
Lebron was a game 7 win away from doing it to this same Boston Celtics defense all by HIS lonesome. And Kobe had one of the deepest teams in the league this year.

Lebron's team plays amazing defense. If you notice teams that had strong defenses with physical front lines fared far better against the Celtics this year than teams with good offense. Matchups, matchups, matchups.

There are so many things that go into winning besides the franchise player. You guys need to get your head out of your asses and realize that one player alone isn't winning you the ship and one player alone is often never the reason why a team loses.

[Ghazi]

I'm not a Kobe fan, but the criticisms of him are ridiculous. He has never personally compared himself to Jordan and has said something along the lines of "Michael is Michael" and "Kobe is Kobe", yet because the MEDIA has decided to build him up people criticize him for not living up to the standard of excellence of the greatest player of all time. That's like criticizing a millionaire for not being a billionaire. Kobe is what he is, the best shooting guard in the game. We can talk about how Jordan would not have blown the game 4 lead against Boston and that may be true, because Jordan is a much better player than Kobe Bryant... but so what? Criticizing someone because he is not as good as the best player of all time makes no sense.

and the "can't win without Shaq" argument holds little substance either considering Shaq can't win without Kobe either (2006 Finals were BS, either). We could also say Garnett can't win without Pierce/Allen, Pierce can't win without Allen/Garnett, and Allen can't win without Garnett/Pierce, Robinson can't win without Duncan, etc etc.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

He has never personally compared himself to Jordan and has said something along the lines of "Michael is Michael" and "Kobe is Kobe", yet because the MEDIA has decided to build him up people criticize him for not living up to the standard of excellence of the greatest player of all time.

Please, Kobe is not an innocent victim of the media. His actions on court speak louder than words ever since his first all star game. It's more like 40-60.

If he didn't want the heat, he shouldn't have been boasting "not tonight, not tonight" to the fans in Boston. And not backing up his trash-talking in the 2nd half of game 6. Instead he cried.

[Spur-Addict]

Lebron's team plays amazing defense. If you notice teams that had strong defenses with physical front lines fared far better against the Celtics this year than teams with good offense. Matchups, matchups, matchups.

There are so many things that go into winning besides the franchise player. You guys need to get your head out of your asses and realize that one player alone isn't winning you the ship and one player alone is often never the reason why a team loses.

I'm sure Kobe had no say in evaluation of the current roster. Just not to long ago he was crying about the roster situation in regards to alot of things. If i'm not mistaken he demanded a trade, but then things changed around camp. Things changed at point and power forward. Fish is supposed to be this great defender, Kobe is all league if i'm not mistaken. I don't care what you say, Turiaf is a good defender and so is Trevor. Mihm is a good defender. Odom and Gasol certainly played well against Boozer and Okur. Also, I remember you saying Gasol did the job On timmy not to long ago, now he can't defend? GTFOH

Now, after being favored by everyone and their mother, they lose and their team is looked at in a different manner. Last series L.A was a superb defending team, now they aren't? Good against the early round opponents and now they aren't? Man why don't you GTFOH. Everything must be perfect for Kobe, why don't you stop making excuses for him? What I saw was a talented team who were bullied, PERIOD.

Everyone including Kobe were bullied. In a deciding game you don't just throw up jumpers, he could've posted up on the block but he didn't. They were bullied despite a seven footer shooting 15 footers all series long. Boston didn't have much of an interior game at all. Just not to long ago you said they were missing one piece, now it's more than one? What your team needs is heart, that doesn't grow on trees i'm afraid. The Spurs aren't the most talented team all around, but we certainly have heart. Despite all the set backs this season and post season we fought b/c we have heart. Heart will get you somewhere talent can't, when you have heart and talent, WATCH OUT. Hopefully we can sure up the places that need it b/c we have all the heart any team needs, along with great talent already.

[Kobe24Forever]

yeah all these kobe hate has got to stop, in regards to Jordan, it was the assinine fans who did the comparisons not kobe, you can't compare the current lakers squad with the bulls squad either, the bulls were just superior defensively, they had hardnose and very quick and smart players who played great team defense, jordan couldnt do it all by himself, lets get serious, we only got gasol, this year, he's still soft, odom is soft as well, but i can say that with gay allen, rondo and garnett, there's more ways to exploit the celtics quick defense and that is andrew bynum, a big strong body down there, and a very mobile one at that, will cause celtics all sorts of problem, we just ran into a matchup wall, and some very inexperience players like farmar and vujacic.

[KidCongo]

I'm not a Kobe fan, but the criticisms of him are ridiculous. He has never personally compared himself to Jordan and has said something along the lines of "Michael is Michael" and "Kobe is Kobe", yet because the MEDIA has decided to build him up people criticize him for not living up to the standard of excellence of the greatest player of all time. That's like criticizing a millionaire for not being a billionaire. Kobe is what he is, the best shooting guard in the game. We can talk about how Jordan would not have blown the game 4 lead against Boston and that may be true, because Jordan is a much better player than Kobe Bryant... but so what? Criticizing someone because he is not as good as the best player of all time makes no sense.

and the "can't win without Shaq" argument holds little substance either considering Shaq can't win without Kobe either (2006 Finals were BS, either). We could also say Garnett can't win without Pierce/Allen, Pierce can't win without Allen/Garnett, and Allen can't win without Garnett/Pierce, Robinson can't win without Duncan, etc etc.

Allen/Pierce/Garnett are not compared to Jordan. Shaq won without Kobe.

[KidCongo]

I'm sure Kobe had no say in evaluation of the current roster. Just not to long ago he was crying about the roster situation in regards to alot of things. If i'm not mistaken he demanded a trade, but then things changed around camp. Things changed at point and power forward. Fish is supposed to be this great defender, Kobe is all league if i'm not mistaken. I don't care what you say, Turiaf is a good defender and so is Trevor. Mihm is a good defender. Odom and Gasol certainly played well against Boozer and Okur. Also, I remember you saying Gasol did the job On timmy not to long ago, now he can't defend? GTFOH

Too right. Kobe should be able to light a fire up under their asses and make them defend.

[ratm1221]

The bottomline is you need a TEAM to beat the Celtics. One player is not going to do it all by his lonesome, not even the greatest to ever lace em up.

Now you are contradicting yourself. You said all this TEAM is missing is Bynum. Now you are saying there there is no team outside of Kobe. Which is it?

And yes, MJ would have put this TEAM on his back and carried them piggyback to a championship kicking and screaming.

And at you saying this Celtics team has the best defense in 25 years...

If that is what helps you sleep at night to keep the 39 point nightmares away.

[1Parker1]

No one knows for sure what Jordan would/could have done with this Lakers team against this Celtics defense.

But one thing, anyone, even Laker Homers, can agree with; In no way, shape, or form would an MJ led team have let this Celtics team come back from 24 down at halftime, 20 up in the 3rd quarter, on their own Homecourt in a pivotal Game 4. That game could have raised Kobe's game and reputation, but instead, people are going to look back on this series, particularly THAT game, and it's going to take Kobe a long time to recover from it.

[ratm1221]

Lebron's team plays amazing defense. If you notice teams that had strong defenses with physical front lines fared far better against the Celtics this year than teams with good offense. Matchups, matchups, matchups.

There are so many things that go into winning besides the franchise player. You guys need to get your head out of your asses and realize that one player alone isn't winning you the ship and one player alone is often never the reason why a team loses.

So let me get this straight. You said one man can't do and it's a TEAM that wins ships. But, your also saying that Bynum (ONE MAN) coming back is going to fix all the defense problems?

[stretch]

If you seriously think swapping MJ with KB would have resulted in the Lakers winning against the Celtics you are a moron. Or a Kobe hater. Probably both.

No way Jordan lets his team slip the way Kobe did. No way he allows a comeback like Kobe did. Jordan knew when to take over games. Kobe clearly does not, as he allowed the Celtics to cut deeper and deeper into the lead, any by time he started to try to take over, it was far too late. Not to mention he falls in love with the jumper WAY too much. Jordan never had as big of an issue as Kobe does with falling in love with the jumper.

[stretch]

and did anyone notice how PATHETIC Kobe was on defense in game 6? even before the game was out of hand, he was missing rotations and playing AWFUL lazy defense and was a big reason they went on a run and was able to maintain that lead. Kobe has definitley lost several points defensively in my book. he was very average on defense all series, and i cant count how many steals he gets from getting away with fouling the out of opponents. i almost NEVER see him get a clean steal.

[~~~~~~]

Bryant needs another Batman.

No, Bryant needs Superman