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I see theistic implications in everything.
Watch the South Park episode about "The Richers." Suddenly, all these strange references about burning "t"s will make sense.
I see theistic implications in everything.
Don't think of this as a beginning to the end....but the the start of a new beginning....the beginning of the times of enlightenment....Ive lost a lot of respect for people I used to be very good friends with back in the day to a point where most if not all I do not speak to anymore. Not so much for their religious beliefs, morals or scientific a en (easily overcome....very easy), but because they are so ingrained with the same, tired I have heard from countless other sheep they all start to look the same.
Therefore, they are categorized the same. Its like a blank face with an opening in the lower portion reading from the "How to Look, Act, Sound and Believe Like Everyone Else" handbook.
Its really hard for me to discuss things in threads like this because they eventually come back to one subject for me for which everything in the future will hinge on: Artificial Intelligence.
For me, the person who describes the future best and has a proven track record of making accurate predictions in the matter is Ray Kurzweil. He has laid out the way he sees technology unfolding and has been extremely accurate to this point.
The problem with discussing this subject is that most people don't truly understand that artificial intelligence is not something out of science fiction but something that is going to happen in our lifetimes. I think a lot of this stems from people's perception as human intelligence as something more than what it actually is. Our brains our computers, and while they are more powerful than the computer I am posting this on that does not mean they are the pinnacle of efficiency by any means.
Computing will reach the power of the human brain in the very near future. That won't be the day we have AI, but its stepping stone. Technology grows exponentially. Our early ancestors spent age upon age improving on simple crude tools. We had the stone age, the bronze age, the iron age and many others. But each generation took what was known before and added to it as we add to it today. While it tooks thousands of years to go from a simple crude ax to an arrow it has taken less than 70 to go from the dawn of computing to having computers in nearly in every single facet of our lives. And in 5 years, they'll be even more apparent.
Anyway, with computing power growing so fast it in turn impacts every other facet of human development. Medical improvements improve because of this, mechanical improvements go up as well - virtually everything is improved because of this. Humans will become physically integrated with machines in the (relatively) near term future. its already started. Mechanical hearts, prosthetic limbs anyone? What happens when someone designs a hard drive your brain can interact with? what happens when medical nanotechnology involves nanobots inside your body that can directly interact with your brain? What happens when each person is connect to the internet through themselves?
While many of these concepts may see like science fiction the fact is that there are many projects already underway that are founded in good scientific theory and fact outlying these very ideas. It isn't only plausible, it isn't even only probable its simply a matter of time before they are able to be carried out.
So, with all of that in mind, when much of this is carried out it changes the perception of human life, life expectancy and pretty much the entire understanding of life. It is really hard to understand this future looking through our current understanding of things and it is impossible to see past what is certainly going to be a cultural, philosophical and intellectual revolution of the kind that we've never seen before.
Also - if you think of an alien species that has already reached this point in technology it is very difficult to understand how they would visit us and if we would even know it or recognize it in our current state. We often project what we expect to see based on what we know of ourselves. IE most popular culture dealing with aliens depicts them as a 2 legged 2 armed humanoid creature with faces and heads much like our own save a few differences. They fly around in spacecraft much like our own and wear clothing like our own. They speak vocally just like us and you could go own forever with the associations.
That's assuming sin, right and wrong, and mercy are concepts that are real to everyone. Not everyone is governed by these things, only those who choose to let these things govern them.
Who is Ray Kurzweil and what has he done?
Do you think that AI would be a big blow to people of faith and a victory for atheists?
By that I mean, when make becomes the "Creator" and is able to replicate intelligence, will there be no more use for a personal god?
I have the same interest, only it seems youve actually moved in a scholarly direction in your pursuit. Good on you.
I would agree atheism is an illogical starting point to ponder such things. Ive never identified myself as anything, but if I were narrowed, I would say agnostic (previous posts cited) for the personal pondering of the heavens and death must have some frame of reference.And I suspect that you would agree that pure atheistic naturalism (i.e., no God, we evolved by chance, we die, that's it, tough) cannot provide these answers any better than religion can.
Athieism is as bland as Elmer's paste. You live, you die, you biodegrate.
If thats true, then we truly are a joke. Only I dont think life is a joke, therefore there must be a commonality to our existence that extends beyond scientific comprehension (as we know it today, at least). Which inherently makes such things very personal.
All of this is why pondering the original intent of this thread brings this topic to the fore-front at some point. Because if there is life outside Earth, certain religions will have to be revised to include such discoveries, or at the very least re-interpreted. Which is a fine alternative for those who hold so dear an ins ution of control, but a small personal victory to those of us who believed all along that life is bigger than we simple humans, this Earth, this life and the constructs we humans have used to understand the metaphysical is a mere shadow used to screen us from the immensity of our reality.
Again, humans desire control....we all do, I know I do. But control is a dirty word to me when referring to the things no one can know and never will, until our departure...and Im not entirely sure death equals enlightenment either, but thats another thread all together.
I will assume you meant this as a question to anyone.
No, I dont think AI affects any religion whatsoever, save for the specific, strict religious figures damning any sort of human creation that can be interpreted as "God-like".
Whether that be cloning, AI or any other unknown discovery that borders on the fine (always moving) line in the sand our predecessors thought to be over-stepping our bounds.
I for one believe no such line exists, that our only limitations are the ones we set for ourselves. Any creation of life/intelligence, artificial or otherwise, should be seen as a blessing from the various religions in my mind. But that would be a hard hill to climb against others who find their current constructs of power and order usurped by the logical advances in science.
I see what you are saying, but wouldn't creating life, by creating artificial intelligence as it were, invalidate the need for a "god"? I mean, if we get to that stage where we can create a sentient being, what would "god's" purpose be?
Very true. If we were to make contact with an alien race, they could look very different than our expectations (among the other subtle differences that may exist).
But certain aspects of the evolution of life here on Earth that allowed us to manipulate our environment to our advantage can be projected onto those possible lifeforms of the stars, IMO.
Things like: communication (vocal or otherwise), reproduction (asexual or sexual), mathematics (intergalactic language), opposable thumbs (or the equivalent...if they havent evolved away from such a thing), larger brains (or equivalent), etc.
So, drawing similarities from ourselves onto "them" is entirely plausible. Although I do agree, there is no rule that says they are bipedal vertebrates with closely-set eyes (or what have you). But, it is my belief, there will be similarities nonetheless. It just depends on your personal definition of similar, aesthetic or otherwise.
That question can be answered only if one's conception of God is merely in terms of some purpose that he serves for mankind.
It would seem you hold a bias toward a God of Creation, whether that bias is negative or positive, Ill leave that answer to you.
If positive, God is responsible for your creation (life in general). That importance would be significant to the end of days. Because computers can create new algorithms from known quan ies of data, this fact does not decrease the importance of those who created such a computer capable of such a feat. If anything it validates it, IMO.
If negative, then its another notch in the belt of "Reasons God Doesnt Exist".
If neither, then its nothing more than another extension to our ever-blossoming understanding of our world and our ability to influence it in ways outside the physical. As artificial as AI is, if it were able to replicate cognitive thinking and maybe even become self-aware and emotive (this is bordering on the fantastic, btw), it would add perspective to our world view. There would be those who think ourselves as Gods (not good, imo), those who reject such an advance as heretical (also not good) and those who just add it to the collection of discovery as another step toward Total Understanding, a pursuit of perfection everyone knows is not possible but strive for nonetheless.
My opinion, anyway.
How can you list things like opposable thumbs or enlarged brains when you don't even know whether this hypothetical life is carbon-based, cellular, has genes, DNA, etc.? You can't take anything for granted in projecting characteristics of earth-based life onto the hypothetical extraterrestrial. We might not even be able to recognize it as a life form.
Eh...good point. Youre right, I definitely assumed a carbon-based, organic lifeform.
But is that as big a stretch of the imagination as is some floating, 4th dimensional being(s) of intellect without a body?
I dont even know if thats entirely possible. Do you?
I'm loath to make declarative statements based upon nothing but speculations emanating from my feeble, limited mind. I have no idea what is or is not possible. I do believe in a spiritual realm with spiritual beings, and anything that can be conceived in this realm pales to that.
Fair enough. With such a fantastic belief of things, I can understand why you wouldnt go out on a limb unsolicited.
So let me solicit you...
Assume said lifeform is a carbon-based organism, what assumptions could one make about them?
He's an inventor first and foremost. He's also a technology expert and has written several books on the subject of AI. The first was the age of intelligent machines in which he laid out the development of the internet and persaonl computing. Then he wrote The Age of Spiritual Machines which had much more to do with the development of AI and his latest book is about the emergence of AI within the next century and provides an updated roadmap of how we'll get there. His predictions are uncanny and he explains him self very well.
It is all very dry reading (I have yet to read his latest book) but if you can have the patience to read through it a couple of times it is an interesting perspective on how he sees things playing out.
I wasn't aware atheists were fighting and needed a victory. Faith is something everyone must answer for themselves. I'm sure that a change that big to our society will leave lasting effects on nearly every facet of our lives but I do not believe it will by any means be an eradication of religion. No other intellectual revolution in our past has managed to do so, and I"m not sure this would be any different.
Religion - just like every other part of humanity - is constantly evolving and would probably do just that in the face of a change of this nature.
I think you missed my point.
The human body is a machine. What separates it from what we normally consider machines are several things but it is undeniable that our bodies are just as mechanical as any machine that does the same function. We are self aware machines. Its a non romantic way of looking at our species and it really doesn't fit our need for self importance but when broken down thats what it really comes down to.
If a machine we build is able to become self aware, then what defines a life form? An organic body or the mind? If its the mind, then who's to say alien civilizations even have a need for a body?
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