Reply With Quote
I don't think standing up to bullies is being a pretentious wad.
If you prefer, I could simply start doing the same thing you do, and resort to post after post after post of insults.
Would that make me less pretentious?
Here is my answer to this. You have a car that you owe 5k on that gets 20mpg. Your payment is 250.
You trade said car in for a car that gets 30mpg but it now costs you 300 a month. Congrats you just broke even monthly if not cost yourself more
Also same idea different spin.
You have a car that gets 20mpg. Now at 4 bucks a gallon.
You trade up for a car that gets 30mpg but gas in now 7 bucks. You budget on average just went up 50-75 bucks a month on just gas so even with way better gas mileage you expense is still way higher if gas creeps up that high. If it takes restructuring now image when hits the fan at 7 because no budget can be trimmed back enough in the immediate to fit that kind of increase. Thats just gas alone factor in the rest of it and you'll see.
This is why I laugh my ass off at all the stupid dumb s who say yeah high gas prices it forces people to live a more modest life blah blah blah, lets go green. Its not so simple to rebudget in such a short period of time. Its not enough to be better people. Its too much of stretch. No way this country lets gas and gas alone break the system. Rich will get rich like always but at some point the crunch will actually trickle up and I believe that mark is at about 6 bucks a gallon.
I don't think standing up to bullies is being a pretentious wad.
If you prefer, I could simply start doing the same thing you do, and resort to post after post after post of insults.
Would that make me less pretentious?
"yeah high gas prices it forces people to live a more modest life"
Correction, it forces EVERYONE to engineer oil products out of their lives.
It will take time (to replace gas-guzzlers), and it will be painful. Plus the cost of food up, people will have less discretionary funds (but USA household debt already exceeds household income by over 10%)
Do you have an alternative to oil conservation?
Look at the chart I posted, the US gallon price is about the same as other industrial countries BEFORE those countries add tax.
Low-cost oil has taken decades to penetrate and pollute every level of human life. It will be long and painful to reduce it significantly. The era of cheap oil is over, and the USA is still childishly, irresponsibly reacting, rather than responsibly anticipating.
I'll tell you what, if you stop acting like you are an all knowing bag and quit talking out of your ass and mentioning your education, I'll stop bullying.
By the way, where are my ing research papers I asked for?
You mistake "long and painful change for the better" with "complete and udder collapse".
I don't argue that change is good or for the better but its just not generally feasible to increase the cost of living by 20% in less than two calendar years. You talking about triggering the beginning of a complete economic collapse.
In my eyes it will likely take 4-7 years for the average family to successfully trim out 500-600 dollars a month in income. Thats counting being fically conservative and even eating less. Not counting the fact that trimming 500 off but adding 300 in inflation hardly helps the cause. The solution for most is to simply let a debt or two go completely off the books to compensates for whatever shortcomings they have even after cutting back on gas, food and fun money.It will take time (to replace gas-guzzlers), and it will be painful. Plus the cost of food up, people will have less discretionary funds (but USA household debt already exceeds household income by over 10%)
Thats already becoming a national problem with no easy solution so sitting there saying oh yeah bring it on and it will be painful and so forth but in the end it'll be better....NO WAY. Too much too soon and its going to do way more harm than long term good. Remember cutting back on 500 now hardly would equate to 200 in 2 years with 7 dollar gas. Too big of jump too soon for what you said is already a country stretched to the max and beyond.
You act like you're thinking big picture but you're not even close.
Big ing deal if you can increase you gas mileage by 33% if you have take on a whole new debt to do it.
How much can a real family trim off of grocery money? 20 bucks a week? You can't even begin to concievably trim it down enough to compensate for the massive inflation that would follow 7 dollar gas.
I guess you think we should all be eating oatmeal and water for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
"You talking about triggering the beginning of a complete economic collapse."
no, I'm not. You are. scare-mongering is always more fun than trying anything.
As I showed, gasoline expenditure is under 3% of national income, moving to 4% is not economic collapse.
Still no alternative to consuming oil as wastefully as now? didn't think so.
The "solution" will be forced upon on us now as a "free market" solution (speculation, manipulation, supply/demand) so loved by right-wingers.
So far, the "barrel of a gun" solution stealing Iraqi oil hasn't worked out too well, has it?
No, not really.
We got ourselves into this mess by not taking a long term view of things.
Collectively, we made a lot of individual choices, and now have to live with the results, good or bad.
I am not happy about it, despite what you seem to think. It just is what it is.
COUGH** Private owned Federal Reserve COUGH** COUGH huge problem COUGH**
Again you fail to see how moving up gas cost moves everything up. If it was just a simple increase of 200 a month for gas to 300 a month for gas we could all easily handle it.
You move gas up and it all follows
Food
Clothes
Shampoo
Tooth paste
Furniture
Power
Water
Air (it now cost .75 to get air at the cornerstore not .25 or .50 like before
Gardening supplies
Eating out
Eating in
business cards
shoe laces
hairspray
makeup
jewelry
repair men
auto parts
the vehicles themselves
plastics
cardboard
steel
aluminum
wood
nails
ing all of it. We aren't talking about just the price of gas increasing that would be a godsend.
You bump gas up 200 a month you might as well collectively bump the actual cost around it up another 200 bucks.
You cannot take a median family income and bump their budget up 400 bucks a month. It financially won't work. I'm not being an alarmist here. Its taken two years for some of the other stuff around gas to creep up. What was once a 2 dollar sammich is now 3.99 and so forth so as we sit here at 4 dollar gas and feel a little pinch we are going to feel a massive blow when the cost reaches 7 and all the other expenses in life fall in line with higher fuel prices.
We just saw the price of steel go up 30% based on shipping and rendering costs. You double your gas and bam you gonna see another e in the 30-40% range.
We bump gas up .25 or .30 no big deal we can all absord and conserve a bit more but not if it has a full economical impact on the entire board of expense which is exacty what it does.
As it stands right now a good majority of the banks have bailed out on all recreational financing and pretty soon they'll move away from mid level necessity items like homes and cars. This doesn't create compe ion it eliminates it. Partner that with all the middle class defaulting on loans to off set costs of living and you have the recipe for an unbelievably slow economy if you have millions of middle class workers with the money who are over budget with credit and no lenders buying average FICOs like they did 10 years ago. Putting pressure on people financially and causing them to think differently isn't going to invoke change it'll cause panic and the end result will be a dead economy.
Cost goes up on everything
Middle America begins to default on current unaffordable loans
Banks refuse to buy average to below average paper due to risk
Limited amount of buyers due to lack of financing options
=
Slow ing economy. We think its slow now just wait.
Stop thinking gas as just gas as just one bill rising. Its attached to everything and you can't just wake up and suddenly say "oh we should be looking elsewhere". Thats a process that should have been played out like Europe did it. Slow Slow Slow process so its can be worked with and manipulated. America was flat too stupid to plan for something like this but then again they probably didn't think a good majority of the politicians would have oil monies in their back pocket.
You seem to have this assumption that the government has some sort of vested interest in maintaining the middle class. Hilarious.
Here is a fact: the government's interest in you starts and ends with your tax payments. Beyond that, go yourself.
If you think about the term "middle class", its immediately recognized as a subjective term. A term that has varying definitions across the globe. Middle Class in the US is a good thing. Whats the middle class like in China? India? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? Africa? Anywhere else?
Im sure some of those other middle classes will more or less line up with our definition. But my best guess tells me a vast majority of the others do not. Its what we would call a "popualtion of poverty". Well, thats true...when looked at through our American-colored glasses.
But to them, theyre no different than the guy next door...or in the next town...or in the next country. To him, hes middle class.
Middle Class is a moving target with an ever-changing definition. Ive always defined it as what a majority of people live like in your country. Well, if a majority are broke.....
Moreover, you make a good point that hurting the buying power of your typical American is not good for business. All very true.
But when a majority of Americans cant name one Supreme Court Justice, or the Vice President for example, you start to realize Americans have a ed up priority list.
Im sure internet, television and movie industries will be juuust fine. Which account for the largest portion of other companies advertising budgets. I think we'd all be surprised by how stupid everyday people really are.
Too stupid? I disagree, sir. I'd think this is going according to plan, near perfectly.
Well the oil people can't exactly be called stupid at this point. They'll push as long as they possibly can. Why do you think gas is already a bit inflated in comparision to the real demand.
Sarcasm? IDKsure internet, television and movie industries will be juuust fine. Which account for the largest portion of other companies advertising budgets. I think we'd all be surprised by how stupid everyday people really are.
I expect to see a cut back on tele and movies. Not to mention if a good majority of disposible income driven business's are struggling I'd expect to see quite a significant drop in advertising budgets as well. Although it will likely swing up for a year or two to see if they can generate more business off the additional advertising.
Essentially my whole point is how do you take a family income of
2,400 a month
With bills around 1,400 monthly and increase that amount to 1,900. There is a wall somewhere in there where they can no longer rebudget and cut back and you effectively eliminate nearly all disposible income. Which is exactly what this country functions on.
I think that inflation wall is at 6 bucks a gallon and how its cost pertains to the wide arrange of living expenses.
Once you hit 6 or so and more there's no more room to budget the extra cost in. The end result would have a pretty ugly effect accross the board.
Instead of focusing on the tentacles of the problem, why don't we focus on the central problem, The Federal Reserve.
"you effectively eliminate nearly all disposible income."
Americans have done that already by running househeld debt well beyond household income. With COL rising, they will have no real $$$ to pay down their credit card debt, their cc interest will skyrocket, and they will get slaughtered by the lenders.
Now some of you may understand why 50M Americans have no health insurance, other than dubya's "just go to the Emergency Room".
Please note that these are estimates:
Family making $75,000 a year (we'll use that number for Obama's sake).
After taxes, they receive $56,250.
After insurance and retirement, they receive $51,000 per year.
That breaks down to $4,250 per month.
The following are bills:
Mortgage/Taxes/Insurance - $1,200 (This is definately a Texas number)
Phone/Cable/Internet - $150.00
Gas/Electric - $250
Water - $150
Student Loans - $400
Groceries - $250 (We'll say they don't have kids)
Vehicles - $600 (Probably on the low end)
Gas - $600 (as it stands today)
That totals up to $3,600 total. The lucky middle class folks that have "ran up credit card bills" as boutons states have about $650 disposable income as it stands right now.
Now, let's add another $500 to that gas total and the lucky middle class folks that have "ran up credit card bills" as boutons states have about $150 disposable income as it could stand then, plus, there is no credit card debt in there.
Better ing hope no one gets hurt or a car breaks down.
So as I said before to boutons, you, the American middle class hates you.
This is all part of the plan to stop illegal immigration. If the standard of living in the United States is exactly the same as Mexico, there is no incentive to come here anymore.
Ahhh . . . stop crying already . . . you gringos have money. You can afford high gas prices.
No we can't..read johnsmith's post, it breaks down the cost of living pretty well.
Hi, DoubtingThomas
Visit Michigan or Ohio some time.
Last I checked I didn't do a damn thing to have my gas prices so high.
<<<That's what the Fed is doing to us except money comes out everytime. The root of the problem is the Fed, all this other bull is avoidable and more controllable after control of the Fed is gained.
I've been in NY and Miami and have seen all those Mercedes, Porchas and Beemers. The guys who drive those can afford plenty of gas.
But seriously, my comment was meant to be sarcastic. It looks like I failed. Next time I'll blue it, or emoticon it.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
