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me. I could have sworn it was a Mavericks team playing those games and not a single individual.
He is a great player. That's not a homer view, either. It's widely accepted.
He is not a great player at all. He puts up stats, he had an amazing series against the Spurs a few years ago and then failed to lead his team to the le against an inferior opponent. He then allowed an 8 seed to knock off his 67 win juggernut Mavs. Got beat by the Hornets pretty easy this year as well. He 100% is not a great player.
me. I could have sworn it was a Mavericks team playing those games and not a single individual.
He is a great player. That's not a homer view, either. It's widely accepted.
Define great player. If you mean he's not a Magic or a Jordan, well, yea. But Dirk is a very very very good player, top 5 PF all time, definately a top 10 player in today's league. And don't blame him for the Mavs getting screwed in 2006, everyone with a brain saw that for what it really was, a screwjob. Michael Jordan himself would have looked like a scrub next to D whistle, there was absolutely no way you could even attempt to guard the guy. The Golden State debacle was bad, but one series doesn't decide an entire career. This year the Hornets were just a superior team, Dirk had literally NO help. It's not Dirk's fault his coach was a maniac and his teammates quit on him.
Well you are half right. Kidd is a subpar defender.
Dirk is definitely a great player. But I guess it depends on your definition of "great" but if Dirk isn't considered a great player, then neither should a lot of stars in the league today.
If we're gonna use this stupid logic, the only great players in the league right now are Shaq, Duncan, Kobe. let's not even count Kobe since he was the 2nd best player on his team during those le runs. If you have to lead a team to a le fine, but then we can only consider 2-3 players in the league great... unless we count every single member on those championship squads as great, but then we have to consider guys like Mehmet Okur, Fabricio Oberto, Eddie House (not saying these players are bad because they aren't, but they certainly aren't more skilled tha Dirk) etc etc as superior players to Dirk, which is illogical.
I won't even mention the fact that the Mavs should've won a ring in '06 but were robbed by the whistles, mindful of the fact that there was a degree of luck in beating the Spurs. Never the less, historically in the NBA you need a top 2-3 player to win a le... Shaq, Duncan, Jordan... there are some exceptions such as the stacked roster of the Celtics or the 2004 Pistons, but generally, you have to have a SUPER great player rather than just a great player. Dirk, being in my estimation, a top 5-7 player rather than a top 2-3 player, does not fit this prerequisite for a le... but why does he get criticized for that? He works hard, he doesn't have off the court issues, he has desire... yet people need to find a way to nitpick and criticize him. If you're a bad player, you get criticized for being bad. If you're a good player, you'll get criticized for not being great. If you have off the court issues, you'll get blasted. If you're a great player, you'll get criticized for a bad series or stretch of games. I guess nobody is exempt from criticism, and it's stupid.
Last edited by Ghazi; 07-01-2008 at 02:33 AM.
parker is a poor defender
homer
Last edited by stretch; 07-01-2008 at 08:08 AM.
parker isnt even good at team defense
remember how many times he just allowed chris paul mo pete and other guys to have free lanes and open backdoor cuts to the basket?
and since we are basing it off chris pauls domination of each guard, he pretty much dominated each guard equally. he averaged around 1 point less per game, around 2 less assists per game, but shot a slightly higher percentage against the spurs. so parkers defense really wasnt much better, especially considering he has Tim Duncan and Oberto behind him, which is far superior defensively to Erick Dampier and Malik Allen.
garbage opinion
lol homer
Yeah because great defenders let Devin Harris repeatedly rape them. And then admit as much as soon as he's traded.
Devin Harris caused Parker trouble with his defense, not his offense.
right right, I forgot. Blowing by Parker on his way to the rim over and over and over was great defense by Harris.
Dirk *IS* a great basketball player, IMO. He's just not top 10 in the league anymore. A couple of years ago? Sure. Last year, when he won the MVP? Maybe. This year, definitely not. He has the talent to be right there among the best. Unfortunately, this is the time when more is being asked of him. Not just sink the J, but also expand his game to the post, and take on a leadership role. He just hasn't delivered on those aspects. We'll see with Carslile on board now, if it was a coach problem or a player problem.
One other thing I see Dallas lacking is a solid 2 or 3 player nucleus. Every respectable team in the west has it these days. Lakers:Gasol/Kobe/Odom, NO:Paul/West/Chandler, Spurs:TD/TP/Manu, Suns:Nash/Amare/Shaq, Utah:Williams/Boozer/Okur, etc.
You could argue Dallas has Dirk/JHo/Terry. But if you look at the other groups, there's at least one big in the mix, and that's not the case for Dallas. Plus JHo keeps showing everybody what a inconsistent knucklehead he is. These things will need to be addressed before the new season starts.
lol obstructed you ing homer
Harris' 12 ppg in that series was what you kept pointing to as evidence that he sucked enough to be traded, but now you are trying to characterize that same 12 ppg as "blowing by Parker"? By that rationale, Timmy is a sucky defender because all the Mavs scored in the paint at will. I guess I might as well stop being a homer about Timmy being a decent defender and all.
its ok you can cry on my shoulder
You suck.garbage opinion
I challenge you to name 10 players better than him. A couple of disappointing playoff runs shouldn't make a player lose status, especially when it wasn't all his fault. I guess Kobe and Nash aren't superstars
He's the franchise player, but just like when Garnett was in Minnesota, it's never his fault.
In no particular order, players playing better than him right now:
- Lebron
- Kobe
- Duncan
- Pierce
- Paul
- West
- Nash
- Amare
- D Howard
- Sheed
Other players we can argue about:
- Yao
- Iverson
- TMac
- Arenas
- Garnett
- Ray Allen
- Gasol
- Odom
Dirk definitely has the talent to be better than a good amount of those guys. We've seen it a couple of years ago. We'll see with Carslile wether he can regain his best form, or if he's just standing pat. I like Carslile, and I think the Mavs needed some fresh air in the bench. But it's going to be up to Dirk to regain the lost ground.
^Nash and Sheed? Tmac and Arenas? How are they playing better than Dirk? I would place Dirk near the bottom of top 10, but a lot of those guys you named, I don't agree. Especially Ray Allen, Gasol and Odom who are the second/3rd options always. Look who's on their teams. I think Dirk is a flopper and soft as , but he's still the number one option and has delivered more than people like to say.
Also I think Kidd's defense is overrated, but I do think he was mishandled by Avery so it will be interesting to see next season what he can do. I'm betting that he is washed up though and a new coach without roster changes isn't going to do much. I thought Mavs might trade Josh Howard but he ed up his value with his horrible play and off court .
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In no particular order, players playing better than him right now:
- Lebron
- Kobe
- Duncan
- Pierce No
- Paul
- West No
- Nash No
- Amare No
- D Howard
- Sheed No
Other players we can argue about:
- Yao No
- Iverson No
- TMac No
- Arenas No
- Garnett no
- Ray Allen No
- Gasol No
- Odom No
^^
Seriously, it's worth arguing whether Lamar Odom is better than Dirk? WTF?
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