What JKidd said about Avery lol...

[Shank]

Is Tracy McGrady better than Dirk?

[Findog]

True. Although, to Amare's credit, he has improved a lot on his shot blocking in the last season.

Amare's always been a decent shotblocker, he didn't add that to his game last year. He always goes for the block/home run so he can get on Sportscenter, rather than honing his technique and playing good solid defense.

[stretch]

Kapono is indeed very talented, and has one more championship ring than Dirk.

you have eternally failed

[ElNono]

What post presence are you talking about? He supposedly offers that but I saw nothing in the Finals. Boston's one strong post presence, Perkins, got hurt, they had to rely on 55 year old PJ Brown, and Gasol still couldn't take advantage of it. He got owned by a guy who will be buying discounted movie tickets in a few months.

Gasol gave LA 16/9 for the playoffs, from the post, which is exactly what LA needed from a #2 option. He's the sole reason a guy like Sasha looked like a stud out there draining 3 pointers.

[ElNono]

Amare's always been a decent shotblocker, he didn't add that to his game last year. He always goes for the block/home run so he can get on Sportscenter, rather than honing his technique and playing good solid defense.

IMO, he improved. He used to foul a lot more trying to get the block in earlier seasons. I guess his timing probably got better. Other than that, yeah, he's a pretty horrible man to man defender, and completely nonexistent as a help defender.

[ElNono]

He can guard plenty of guys. Do you know of anyone that regularly goes off on Dirk because of his defense? He makes Gasol his on both ends of the court as one example. He's great as a help defender, as well.

He just doesn't defend the best big on the other team. You never wonder why?

He can post up plenty of guys. But the same guys he posts up, can they defend him when he takes them out of the paint? Not a chance and that's what makes him unique.

He can't post anybody because he has no post game. Period. Even if he could back somebody up all the way to the rim, he has no hook shot, no floater, nothing. He can only turn around an shoot a fade away.
And Stephen Jackson would love to talk to you about making Dirk struggle.

He's a good leader. You're not in the lockeroom and you don't hear how he handles his fellow teammates.

I don't have to be in a locker room to know that Jordan was a leader. That Kobe is a leader. That Duncan is a leader. But if I need to be on the locker room to know Dirk is a leader, then we have a problem.

I'll concede to Popovich, Pat Riley and others when it comes to preparing matchups for Dirk. They've admitted that he's tough to plan for.

Yet, they have, for the most part, been entirely successful against him. Especially Pop.

Your bias and blind disdain for all things Nowitzki is disgusting. I guarantee that you'd be all on his balls if he played for your beloved Spurs. You need to learn to appreciate that there are other players out there that are among the best in the NBA. Dirk is one of them. As others have mentioned before, your ass is still sore from 2006 for some reason.

I disagree. That I basically don't drink your Dirk kool-aid doesn't mean I don't appreciate other players on the league. Actually, my Top 10 list included just a single Spur.

There needs to be no more time spent trying to convince your dumb ass that Dirk is a top 10 player in the league. There are guys that follow the NBA for a living that easily admit as much. I'd rather listen to their opinions than some dumb with a ing pickle as his avatar.

You do what you want. Nobody forced you to write this or engage in this conversation.

[Shank]

I love how you write in definitives. As though everything you state is 100% true.

Do this - you've obviously lost this argument and have been dogpiled from all angles. Bend over, go yourself and stop posting in this thread.

We win.

[ElNono]

I love how you write in definitives. As though everything you state is 100% true.

I never claimed that. Believe what you want.

Do this - you've obviously lost this argument and have been dogpiled from all angles. Bend over, go yourself and stop posting in this thread.

We win.

I won't do that. I'll be here to discuss when you have something relevant to say.

[Shank]

I never claimed that. Believe what you want.

"He can't post anybody because he has no post game. Period. Even if he could back somebody up all the way to the rim, he has no hook shot, no floater, nothing. He can only turn around an shoot a fade away."

Sound pretty ing definitive to me. "Can't" and "Can" are certainties in your little mind.

[stretch]

I won't do that. I'll be here to discuss when you have something relevant to say.

[ElNono]

"He can't post anybody because he has no post game. Period. Even if he could back somebody up all the way to the rim, he has no hook shot, no floater, nothing. He can only turn around an shoot a fade away."

Sound pretty ing definitive to me. "Can't" and "Can" are certainties in your little mind.

If you think I'm wrong in that opinion, prove otherwise... but you can't. Instead you rather argue how I talk in 'definitives'. Well, it damn right will be a definitive if you can't argue against it.

[Shank]

You said he "can ONLY turn around and shoot a fadeaway". He can ONLY do that. Only.

You're not winning this, I hope you know. We're all laughing at you - your Spurs sheep included.

[Ghazi]

Sheed's as a focal point of the Pistons offense changed when Larry Brown left. When flippity came around, he changed the entire offense around. If Sheed were to attempt a 3 pointer with LB as the coach, he'll be riding the bench for the rest of the season. Then again, Flip Saunders came and left the Pistons ringless, with a team that made the NBA Finals twice with LB as the coach. Ask any Pistons fans here, we have plenty of them.
And I consider Sheed better than Dirk not just because of him having a post game, but also because he's 20x the better defender. IE: Sheed will guard Duncan one on one, where Dirk will simply not guard Duncan at all unless there's no other option.

And yet he only shoots 43%. Don't you get it, the idea of a post player is scoring efficiency, which is why when you look at the top efficiency leaders of all time, most of them are centers and power forward. Sheed is not a very efficient player. and really? 20 times the defender? can you mathematically prove that Sheed is TWENTY times the defender Dirk is? If Sheed allows 10 points per game, does that mean Dirk allows 200? That doesn't even make sense. As I said, Dirk was statistically a top 10 defender at the PF position, and the PER of opposing PF's this year was #2 behind Boston (Garnett).

[Shank]

Ghazi, we're talking to a brick wall.

[stretch]

Ghazi, we're talking to a brick wall.

yea logic makes to much sense to him. he and tom cruise must be buddies.

[ElNono]

You said he "can ONLY turn around and shoot a fadeaway". He can ONLY do that. Only.

You're not winning this, I hope you know. We're all laughing at you - your Spurs sheep included.

When he's posting up a player, yes, that's all he can do. That's my opinion. Feel free to quote me on it.
You don't think so? I'm all ears...

And I'm not here to 'Win' anything. I'm here to talk, like I'm doing with pretty much anybody not named 'Shank' or 'stretch'.

[ElNono]

And yet he only shoots 43%. Don't you get it, the idea of a post player is scoring efficiency, which is why when you look at the top efficiency leaders of all time, most of them are centers and power forward. Sheed is not a very efficient player. and really? 20 times the defender? can you mathematically prove that Sheed is TWENTY times the defender Dirk is? If Sheed allows 10 points per game, does that mean Dirk allows 200? That doesn't even make sense. As I said, Dirk was statistically a top 10 defender at the PF position, and the PER of opposing PF's this year was #2 behind Boston (Garnett).

Sheed defends the opposing's team best big. Dirk does not.
Sheed defends Duncan, Howard, KG, Shaq, etc. Dirk does not defend any of those guys. That's why numbers won't give you the story. Plus what do you mean he only shoots 43%???? Duncan averaged 44% shooting these playoffs.
And the PER numbers are bull . KG better than Dirk and Duncan? I mean, I don't blame it on you because you didn't write them, but please.

Now let me tell you, I appreciate you taking the time to talk about this. So many trolls that prefer to attack me instead of coming with takes like you do.

[z0sa]

Yes to both. Did you just start watching basketball this year? Well I'll inform you that waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day, a year ago, and for years before that, Kevin Garnett played in the Western Conference. Shocker, I know.

As I believed, you go straight to belittling. KG and Tim had a sort of rivalry going on, so no one here in SA ever forgot about him.

And Dirk regularly kicked KG's ass up and down the court when they were both in the WC. In fact, if you do a little research you'll see that they even met up in the playoffs. Guess which team swept the other one? Guess who played better between KG and Dirk? It wasn't even close. Dirk DOMINATED Garnett.

Foolish, foolish. Do you watch your own team's games? It was most definitely a three-pronged attack of Nash, Finley, AND Dirk. This "wiping the floor" stuff with KG is stupid.

KG's best teammate was a confused, nomadic Chauncey Billups. What an epic fail of an argument.

BTW, just in case you just started watching basketball last year yourself, Dirk in the Laker's middle wouldn't be any better than Pau. They needed someone MUCH better than Pau.

[endrity]

Foolish, foolish. Do you watch your own team's games? It was most definitely a three-pronged attack of Nash, Finley, AND Dirk. This "wiping the floor" stuff with KG is stupid.

KG's best teammate was a confused, nomadic Chauncey Billups. What an epic fail of an argument.

BTW, just in case you just started watching basketball last year yourself, Dirk in the Laker's middle wouldn't be any better than Pau. They needed someone MUCH better than Pau.

It wasn't a confused Billups. It was a Billups fully blossoming as a player, one that would go to Detroit the next season after what he showed during those playoffs. He was the Wolves best player. They also had a guy, Wally World, who you might forget now, but actually was an All Star that year, and playing at the top of his abilities.

Dirk and KG went one on one most of the series, and Dirk handled him quite easily. And this was 23 year old Dirk vs. a 26-27 year old KG.

You are the one forgetting the facts here.

[z0sa]

It wasn't a confused Billups. It was a Billups fully blossoming as a player, one that would go to Detroit the next season after what he showed during those playoffs. He was the Wolves best player. They also had a guy, Wally World, who you might forget now, but actually was an All Star that year, and playing at the top of his abilities.

Billups had no idea where he'd be dropping in next - he was finally finding his place in the NBA as a shoot first PG, but it made his overall psyche confused and nomadic. I mean, its just human nature, not rocket science. When he got to Detroit, it was clear that he finally found a fit. That fit was not in Minny.

and Wally? Please. The guy was a stiff from day one, his offense is like a Peja's, only with a ter stroke and slightly more ball handling, while his defense ...

Now, lets look at Dirk's next two best players: Steve Nash in his prime, Mike Finley in his prime. Finley even had 28 and 30 in two of the three games.

Dirk and KG went one on one most of the series, and Dirk handled him quite easily. And this was 23 year old Dirk vs. a 26-27 year old KG.

You are the one forgetting the facts here.

KG attempted 17 free throws in Game 2, and averaged 24.0ppg for the series. Sure doesn't seem like Dirk "handled him quite easily" to me. Then again, I don't have the homer shades on.

[stretch]

Sheed defends the opposing's team best big. Dirk does not.
Sheed defends Duncan, Howard, KG, Shaq, etc. Dirk does not defend any of those guys. That's why numbers won't give you the story. Plus what do you mean he only shoots 43%???? Duncan averaged 44% shooting these playoffs.
And the PER numbers are bull . KG better than Dirk and Duncan? I mean, I don't blame it on you because you didn't write them, but please.

Now let me tell you, I appreciate you taking the time to talk about this. So many trolls that prefer to attack me instead of coming with takes like you do.

fact is, those guys you mentioned can all somewhat guard each other and find ways to give each other some fits. but NONE of them... NOT A SINGLE ONE can guard Dirk on their own. the ONLY way that teams have successful guarded Dirk was in the past with pesky guys like Bowen, but after he figured that out, the only way was to throw double and triple teams at him. there is not a single player in the NBA that can guard Dirk Nowitzki one-on-one successfully. IMO its easier to stop a guy like Tim Duncan one-on-one than it is to stop Dirk Nowitzki. and even Dirk/Duncan going at it one-on-one, Dirk wins that battle every time. Dirk is a very special player, and much better than you give him credit for.

[stretch]

Billups had no idea where he'd be dropping in next - he was finally finding his place in the NBA as a shoot first PG, but it made his overall psyche confused and nomadic. I mean, its just human nature, not rocket science. When he got to Detroit, it was clear that he finally found a fit. That fit was not in Minny.

and Wally? Please. The guy was a stiff from day one, his offense is like a Peja's, only with a ter stroke and slightly more ball handling, while his defense ...

Now, lets look at Dirk's next two best players: Steve Nash in his prime, Mike Finley in his prime. Finley even had 28 and 30 in two of the three games.



KG attempted 17 free throws in Game 2, and averaged 24.0ppg for the series. Sure doesn't seem like Dirk "handled him quite easily" to me. Then again, I don't have the homer shades on.

3-0

that is "handling" in the most important way possible

shut the up

[monosylab1k]

Foolish, foolish. Do you watch your own team's games? It was most definitely a three-pronged attack of Nash, Finley, AND Dirk. This "wiping the floor" stuff with KG is stupid.

you're dumb. You must not have watched that series at all. Dirk scored 30+ on KG in all 3 games of that series. He held Garnett to under 43% shooting for the series. He also forced Garnett into 4 turnovers per game, up from his sub-3 average for the season. The Mavs were the better team anyways, but anybody who actually watched that series saw Dirk make KG his .

[ElNono]

fact is, those guys you mentioned can all somewhat guard each other and find ways to give each other some fits. but NONE of them... NOT A SINGLE ONE can guard Dirk on their own. the ONLY way that teams have successful guarded Dirk was in the past with pesky guys like Bowen, but after he figured that out, the only way was to throw double and triple teams at him. there is not a single player in the NBA that can guard Dirk Nowitzki one-on-one successfully. IMO its easier to stop a guy like Tim Duncan one-on-one than it is to stop Dirk Nowitzki. and even Dirk/Duncan going at it one-on-one, Dirk wins that battle every time. Dirk is a very special player, and much better than you give him credit for.

All those guys command a double team. The difference is that all those guys are also defensive anchors (perhaps with the exception of Howard, who is just getting started), something Dirk is nowhere near. There's a reason Cubes just paid the full MLE for Diop. Neither Dirk or Dampier can handle the plethora of bigs in the west right now. Case in point is the NO series, where West pretty much matched Dirk in production. Chandler had a feast of alley-oops in your paint. So Dirk is not going to turn into a defensive anchor overnight. But Dirk's advantage only works if the other team can't score on the other end. He can't stop them, so we'll see if Diop can (to be honest with you, Diop is probably the player with the most horrible offense in the league, but he's long and athletic enough to give a bunch of bigs trouble)

To draw a parallel, Allen Iversion is very hard, almost impossible to stop. But he never plays defense. His team rarely does. That's why he got as far as Dirk. One NBA Finals appearance, and that's it.

[stretch]

All those guys command a double team. The difference is that all those guys are also defensive anchors (perhaps with the exception of Howard, who is just getting started), something Dirk is nowhere near. There's a reason Cubes just paid the full MLE for Diop. Neither Dirk or Dampier can handle the plethora of bigs in the west right now. Case in point is the NO series, where West pretty much matched Dirk in production. Chandler had a feast of alley-oops in your paint. So Dirk is not going to turn into a defensive anchor overnight. But Dirk's advantage only works if the other team can't score on the other end. He can't stop them, so we'll see if Diop can (to be honest with you, Diop is probably the player with the most horrible offense in the league, but he's long and athletic enough to give a bunch of bigs trouble)

To draw a parallel, Allen Iversion is very hard, almost impossible to stop. But he never plays defense. His team rarely does. That's why he got as far as Dirk. One NBA Finals appearance, and that's it.

you clearly have some of the worst arguments ive ever seen. common sense literally flees from your pathetic excuse for a brain. your ignorance is absolutely unbelievable. i did not know it was humanly possible for a person to be insistent at debating something they know nothing about but acting as if they know what the they are talking about, as you have done here. i literally do not have the energy to even begin debating you and your god-awful logic any further.