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horrible. poker does bring out the dregs.
If there is anyone here who is still playing on Absolute Poker or Ultimate Bet you should immediately withdraw your money from these sites. Last year there was a big scandal with high stakes players there. There were several accounts which were making all the right plays every single time. They were absolutely crushing the games to the extent that it was a statistical impossibility.
After some really strange hands (namely having a bluff called by one of these accounts with T high) some of the high stakes pros reviewed hand histories and DB records and found that these accounts were destroying the games to the point where it had to be cheating of some sort.
It turns out these accounts had access to the hole cards of other players.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...d.php?t=248884
You can read more about it there.
Anyway, this entire time many of those pros and many posters at Two Plus Two have been investigating this and the amount of information they've come up with is staggering. With the help of a few whistle blowers from inside the company have come up with strong ties of fraud, money laundering and this cheating to the founder of the company. The amount of information they've come up with is kinda staggering and very impressive at the same time.
This whole scandal has been a pretty big blow to the legitmacy of online poker so its horrible in that sense, but it is also really awesome to see it being policed by the players so well.
If you have money on those sites I'd remove it ASAP because it honestly looks like their days are numbered. Annie Duke and Phil Helmuth are tied to these 2 sites very closely and I'd imagine they may be tied into the point where they may face a good deal of legal trouble themselves.
horrible. poker does bring out the dregs.
Anyone who plays poker on the computer is a fool.
Yes, anyone who likes making free money off idiots online is a fool.
I knew you would take it the wrong way. What I am saying is why would anyone trust a program someone else created to bet money.
here is an example. lets say I create a program so you can bet on one of 8 horses to win a race. I can put in the program a way where I can see which horse got the least amount of bets and make sure that horse wins at least 60% of the time.
I sit back and let people who have extra cash and like to play on the PC support me the rest of my life.
If the webmaster of a website can see who is on line where they are from and who their ISP is? You don't think the folks at the Poker playing sites know what cards you have?
First, Horse racing =/ Poker. Comparing the 2 shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the 2 - especially poker.
Second, I can't 100% vouch for the legitimacy of any site after this. UB and AP were 2 very large poker sites but at the same time the cheating was uncovered which is a reassuring fact. I still feel extremely confident that the top sites in the world are legitimate and that this will lead to further transparency which is a good thing.
I know you haven't read any of of history on how this happend by following the link I posted so I'm probably wasting my time even discussing this with you, but it left a lot of traceable footprints and is the reason why it was uncovered. The people who beat poker at a high level for the most part are very smart, and keep a lot of records.
I may have been the victim of cheating in the years that I've been playing, but I know that even as the games have gotten tougher I have still crushed the stakes I have played for a solid winrate. I've made a good amount of money off of things so even if I have been cheated playing online has been an incredibly profitable experience for me.
Manny I have a question. What is your win lose ratio?
What do you mean by win loss ratio?
Wins versus Scott = 0
Loses versus Scott = Too many to count
You make a good point and after all it is your money but think about it. If you really wanted to rip people off wouldn't you let them win just enough to keep them coming back?
And if you was in charge of the site that has the online poker you don't think you have insurance of some sort? What if some professional poker player or some geek in his mothers basement came up with a way to win? Wouldn't you have some sort of plan 'B'?
You really think if you made a huge bet the site is going to let you walk away with their money?
It's hard enough to trust a dealer in Vegas and i can see them 2 feet in front of me I will be Dammed if I am going to trust some computer software used by some organized crime boss with a gambling site located in Nigeria?
To bad the folks in San Antonio have their heads up their ass and we don't have a casino on the river.
The vast majority of online players don't win. The vast majority of poker players in general don't win.
You don't understand how poker works. I'm not playing against the poker site. No matter who wins the hand, the house makes the same amount of money from the rake. You are not playing against the poker site, you are playing against other players and the site is charging you for hosting a game.And if you was in charge of the site that has the online poker you don't think you have insurance of some sort? What if some professional poker player or some geek in his mothers basement came up with a way to win? Wouldn't you have some sort of plan 'B'?
You don't understand who poker players play against. Its not the houses money.You really think if you made a huge bet the site is going to let you walk away with their money?
There have been a handful of problems with playing online to this date. There have been farm more alleged scams being run in live games than there have been online. Online poker actually provides a lot of transperancy because everyone is able to keep records of every single hand they play in. I have millions upon millions of hands stored in my databases. I've played in many and a lot that I've observed to watch others and their play. There are thousands of databases like mine out there. Almost every online hand that is played on the major sites is do ented in one form or another.It's hard enough to trust a dealer in Vegas and i can see them 2 feet in front of me I will be Dammed if I am going to trust some computer software used by some organized crime boss with a gambling site located in Nigeria?
To bad the folks in San Antonio have their heads up their ass and we don't have a casino on the river.
I'm not saying that it is impossible to cheat online because there are obviously ways to do it and people have and will continue to try to exploit the system but there is cheating in almost ANYTHING that involves money. Securities, investments and banking fraud anyone? The point is that it isn't automaticaly bad because its online poker.
Do you win 2 out of 5 times? Or do you lose 50 dollars and win 20?
Then once a month you win 200.00 or more?
How many times you play or how much do you spend? I wanted to get a ballpark about what is so addictive about it.
"Whats so addictive about it?"
Um, the fact that I make a lot of money doing it? I dunno, whats so addictive about anyone going to their job? That they get paid right?
Where do you think the money goes when you lose? The account at the bank has to belong to someone. Maybe the men who created the software to let you see the other persons cards? You don't think all those people are connected in some way?
And your saying there is no way to fix all that to look legit? Lets say Kori host the Poker site, TimVp and myself play for free to get people like you to join a table. it's you, me, and TimVp our money doesn't count its what we get you to cough up.
I didn't mean addicted like a drug I was wondering why many from my job do it. I wasn't saying you was addicted. After all we know how your Mr. Anti drug addition from the JT topic
Um, the fact that I make a lot of money doing it? I dunno, whats so addictive about anyone going to their job? That they get paid right?
I was just wondering why my friends at work play every chance they get. During breaks, lunch time, at home etc.. I am sorry if you got offended.
the money goes to the player that wins the hand
Then I'd say you and Timvp are doing a good job of giving me Kori's money. I don't lose money Mouse. I don't know how else to explain it.
If you've got 10 dollars and I have 10 dollars and I walk away with 15 how was I scammed?
Manny do they let you do screen shots?
And you have met these players?
Yeah - you can take screen shots all you want. You can record a video if you'd like. But most importantly, you have a text record of every action in a hand that is recorded onto your hard drive. This can then be imported into any of many 3rd part software databases to keep track of your play.
I literally have millions of hands stored on my hard drive. I try to play 100,000 hands each month myself and I have many more that I record just to have stats on my opponents. There are 3rd party sites on the internet that record almost every table at all times online in order to keep stats on players as well. When I say almost every single hand of poker on any major online site is recorded I'm not exaggerating.
It doesn't make any sense for poker sites to jeopardize the huge amounts of money they have coming in to pay a few people to cheat. The amount they would bring in is negligible. I play relatively minor stakes compared to what high stakes pros play and the poker sites are making anywhere from 5k-14k each MONTH just on the pots I WIN. I win maybe about 15-17% of the pots I'm dealt in so you can see that they're making anywhere from 30k-100k each month just on the hands I participate in and I'm only person.
In the situation outlined above it seems as though the founders of a company took advantage of back doors they left in place (i'm simplifying it greatly for expedience) after they sold the software in order to exploit the players there. It really shows poor security on UB/AP part in failing to catch what was going on. The poker site then appears to have covered up what was going on in order to avoid bad press, but at no point does it appear that they actively engaged in cheating the players in order to make more money for the company. Thats a pretty important observation, IMO. It ended up costing them a ton of money because they've had to pay a lot of the players who were cheated back. It's also probably going to spell the end of the company because there is no trust there. The amount of people playing there has dropped severely since this all started, and I really do expect them to go out of business in the near future. But, because of the records that are kept, the people who have appeared to have done this have left a huge paper trail and are probably going to find themselves in deep . We'll see.
Hey Manny If I can talk Jimmc50 into sponsoring you at the next Poker tournament in Vegas would you do it?
No - I suck at tournament poker and would just end up losing Jim's money.
Wow...........3333 hands a day on average? What's you day job?
You chose such a bad screen name.
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