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If howard can play a lick of defense, I might take him over stoudarmire. It's a hard choice since I like both.
GTFO here with the he played with an MVP . Bynum was getting plenty of attention particularly because he could score in the low post and not just off alley oops and putbacks. And, you could say something similar about Dwight Howard in that he played with a bunch of great three point shooters that forced teams to play Howard more honestly with single coverage. All four of Dwight's starting teammates shot 40% from three point range this past season. So enough of that bull .
As for this gem:
Like many right out of high school big men, there is risk taking a kid #1 overall. Similar to international kids. Guys like Amare Stoudemire, Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol weren't taken #1. Would you prefer #1's like Kwame Brown, Michael Olowokandi, Pervis Ellison, Kenyon Martin, and Joe Smith? You can add #2's Darko Milicic, Sam Bowie, and Stromile Swift if you'd like.Except in rare occasions, big men who aren't #1 picks almost never end up being great.
If howard can play a lick of defense, I might take him over stoudarmire. It's a hard choice since I like both.
Stamina does in fact change the way a player is able to perform offensively, and defensively for that matter, regardless of skill.
The only individual that I can recall who's skill level was so ridiculously high as to not be affected by fatigue, was Michael Jordan.
Personally, I don't see Bynum holding up over 80+ games, playing of 35 min/gm.
Some bodies are physically capable of handling the NBA season, others are not.
Thats sarcasm yea??
You realise Dwight's defense is light years ahead of Amares?
JamStone makes some good points, Bynum is more polished offensively, but theres a reason he was only playing 28 minutes a game as opposed to 35, and it didnt have anything to do with the quality of Kwame Brown and Chris Mihn.
Bynum is 2 years younger, and still learning the defensive side of the game. At the same age, Bynum>Howard for mine.... but right now, Howard is the better player.
I'd say Howard by a mile. Amare is a defensive liability when he's on the court, and commits dumb fouls that often have him on the bench watching the game early in the 4th quarter. I look at it this way: what are the chances that Amare ever has a better team than the one he's had the past couple of years? If you have Nash, Marion, Bell, Barbosa, and Diaw, and you yourself are an elite center, and you still can't get to the WCF, what more could you possibly ask for? That's an MVP point guard, two second team all defensive guys, a 6th man of the year...plus a "great" center. If the Suns had traded Amare for Garnett when they had the chance, I think they would have had their best shot at a le.
Bynum doesn't/didn't get double teamed nearly as much as Dwight did (Kendrick Perkins absolutely schooled him both times they met), and enough of this great low post offense garbage. He has the chance to have a very good low post game, mainly because of his length and touch, but it's hardly overwhelming right now.
Bynum right now is where Howard is at offensively. He can score on offense when his man gets left on him and he's allowed to work one-on-one, but struggles with the double team. Howard, despite his lack of a dominant low post game, can still kill defenders when given single coverage because of his strength and athleticism (he scored at will on Duncan last season and always dominates Okafor, who is very good defensively). The only two players I have seen legitimately guard and shut down Dwight are Yao and Rasheed, the two single best low post defenders in the league, IMHO. Additionally, don't pretend Bynum doesn't get his fair share of points off of putbacks and alley oops, because he sure as does.
Look, I like Andrew Bynum as a prospect. He has tremendous size, length, and touch for a man his size, and he's a half way decent athlete to boot, but his breakout season contained 35 freakin' games, and he didn't truly establish himself until about the 10th game of the season. He's esentially had one really good month in his career. He COULD be great, but it's not a guarantee. It's easy to look at his projected numbers per 36 minutes, but if he can't play 36 MPG, than it's a moot point.
I agree: Bynum has the potential to be very good, but at this point he's had a grand total of 1/2 of a good season-- and is coming off of his third knee surgery. To rank him ahead of Howard at this point just doesn't make sense. It's not even certain that he will be better than Howard if he stays healthy and if he stays in good condition... and those are both big ifs at this point.
I didn't say Bynum's low post offense was perfect. I wasn't comparing his low post game to Tim Duncan's. The point was that his ability to score in the low post on offense made him better on offense than Dwight Howard.
Dwight Howard struggled to score on single coverage by guys like Rasheed Wallace, who is nowhere near as strong and Jason Maxiell, who gives up about 5-6 inches to Howard.
And, this past season, Bynum not consistently playing 35+ mpg wasn't as much a conditioning problem as it was a foul trouble problem. He had a four game stretch, including back-to-back games, where he played 40 minutes, 42 minutes, 36 minutes, and 38 minutes, all of them on the road.
Conditioning was not only much improved, it was to the point where it's supposed to be at for a starting center his age. Conditioning should not be an issue.
If you look at the last 10 NBA championships with the exception of the Celtics. You always take a great big man and build around him. Lakers won with Shaq. Spurs won with Duncan. I think that's 9 les with the exception being the Pistons.
I would take the big man Howard. The guy is a true center. Stoudamire he's good but he isn't as strong as Howard nor does he play with his back to the basket. Howard is simply gold in the post.
The Pistons play Dwight well. Them and Yao... gotta give them credit.
I'm just saying let's see Bynum play a full season before we go and crown him the next big thing. I'm sorry if a 35 game sample doesn't do it for me (and again, he wasn't all that great for all 35 games). He could be great, but I'm not ready to jump on the bandwagon just yet.
I'm not going to get into a silly argument with you over that, the entire forum would be against me.
I put that there because I truly believe he is a great President, and I'm proud to support him.
I also wanted to show that I don't hate Bush and that I am in total support of the war unlike many others here at SpursTalk.
Just like you have the right to support Obama without being criticized, I have the right to support President Bush without being criticized.
Thank you.
Last edited by ThunderStix®; 07-23-2008 at 11:37 PM.
bynum's low post game is vastly improved from when he entered because he works with kareem. and he continues to work with kareem. bynum has something that howard doesnt have and prolly will be hard to learn. and thats footwork. sure bynum had his share of alley oops but he was the only post threat for a big man the lakers had in the beginning of the season. the reason he only averaged about 29 minutes per game is because of foul trouble as jamstone said and also because being so young the lakers wanted to platoon him with kwame brown (to showcase him in order to trade) and to keep him fresh.
conditioning yea howard is better. that kids is a freak of nature. but it will be hard for him to develop a touch from the ft line and have a consistent move. bynum ownned amare and biedrins early in the season and was continuing to improve as the season went on. as far as injury, he had a freak injury landing on a foot of another player. thats hardly a concern as far as long term injury woes.
i can see a bynum/howard rivalry for the next decade
spin moves and ownnns kaman on D
http://www.youtube.com/v/5_gH72uDLkg&hl=en&fs=1
Last edited by turiaf for president; 07-23-2008 at 11:46 PM.
Ignorance IS a bliss.I'm not going to get into a silly argument with you over that, the entire forum would be against me.
I put that there because I truly believe he is a great President, and I'm proud to support him.
I also wanted to show that I don't hate Bush and that I am in total support of the war unlike many others here at SpursTalk.
Just like you have the right to support Obama without being criticized, I have the right to support President Bush without being criticized.
Thank you.
I wasn't crowning Bynum anything. I've said he's not that far behind Dwight Howard, and that Bynum's offense is better than Howard's because Bynum has better scoring moves in the low post. You really aren't disputing that.
I didn't once say Bynum was the better overall player. I said he's not far behind. It doesn't take a full season to make a claim like that.
So you think I'm ignorant because I support Bush? great, you are an American, and you have that right to your own opinion.
I could give you a great argument over that, but like i said, the entire forum would attack me, it would be absolutely fruitless.
I can't imagen what would happen if I said someone was ignorant for supporting Obama.
Last edited by ThunderStix®; 07-23-2008 at 11:56 PM.
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