has pierce played against the dream
No, it's like saying Pierce is the best American player. Being foreign has nothing to do with race. Why? B/C there are different races abroad as there are different races here. Intelliigence is apart of skill. If Paul said Gino was the smartest player then yes, that warrants comparison. Paul said nothing about race, he said foreign. Obviously your view is obstructed.
Damn... a thoughful disagreemnet without flaming or name calling. I understand your points, but I still say there is more to it than that. Nash wasn't thought of as an MVP until he went to Phoenix - a system that could have been designed specifically for his skill set. Dirk was on a team that was designed around him. Manu's role and opportunities have been limited by playing on a team where everything (with good reason) goes through Tim Duncan.
And to answer those that argue basketball is a team sport - Manu has been the ultimate team player. He has accepted a role coming off the bench, because that gave the team the best chance to win championships. (No screaming, please. At least the coach believed it, and Manu accepted it.) I don't think that anyone would dispute that Manu's individual stats and accolades have suffered as a consequence.
Some will disagree, but I think you can take Dirk off the top of the list just based on his epic failures in the playoffs. Nash's numbers have been incredible in Phoenix. But it reminds me of the Run-And-Gun that the Houston Oilers ran, with Warren Moon and all those lightning-fast receivers. They piled up huge numbers, but got the crap kicked out of them in the playoffs when they went up against the heavyweights. I'm glad that there isn't much debate over Yao, anyway.
Since the comment was made about the best foreign player in the "history" of the NBA, we must be able to look backwards as well, right? So we should look at the best of Manu. When he first came here, he was electrifying. He's had to subdue his game somewhat to fit within Pop's system. But ask yourself what he would have looked like playing in a wide-open offense. I know I remember games where Duncan and/or Parker were hurt, and Manu has turned it on, seemingly at will, and carried the team. I happen to believe he could have done that consistently, had it been required or had he been given the opportunity.
And finally, if basketball is a team sport, it is also played on both ends of the court. Manu has played his whole NBA career on a team that absolutely demanded defense. And he has worn his ass out playing "defense first". Anyone here bold enough to discuss Dirk's defense in comparison to Manu's? Nash's defense is better than Dirk's, but do you think he would have piled up his MVP stats playing under Pop? When you talk about "best player" I don't see how you can totally discount 50% of the game. (Or 75%, if you play for the Spurs.)
Arguing about "best player" is about as useful as aruging about Batman vs. Aquaman. You'll never prove anything, and it's kind of silly if you ever think about it too hard. But I sure as don't think you can put Manu in a separate, lower category than Nash and Dirk. And I don't think you can safely discount winning. When a guy does it consistently, over a long period of time, it's more than good fortune.
And even if you say that Manu, Nash, and Dirk are equal, I say Manu wins because he's a Spur. So off!
Paul Pierce was drafted in 1998 and Hakeem retired after the 2001-2002 season
get your facts together ducky
ducks is on shallow waters LOL
Actually I prefer Duncan.
I also prefer you not to be here. So you aren't.
Dang, you're right. If we're talking history, Hakeem is probably tops. And I loved Sabonis. If he had been allowed to play NBA ball before his knees were shot, he would have been a household name among basketball fans. He played through a lot of pain, but he still had that beautiful stroke.
By the time he got to play here, he reminded me of the dad of a girl you were picking up for a date, and were scared less of. I don't know why.
Me too.
Mango a top 5-10 player is the funniest thing I heard in this thread. Every team in the NBA has atleast 1 playerr better than Mangoo.He comes off the BENCH FOOLS!!!!!!!!!!!! He plays with DUNCAN. Maybe Mangoo is better than any Knick or Pacer.
Dear lord, there seems to be an outbreak of civility here. Get the CDC on the horn! Burn the tomatoes!Damn... a thoughful disagreemnet without flaming or name calling. I understand your points, but I still say there is more to it than that. Nash wasn't thought of as an MVP until he went to Phoenix - a system that could have been designed specifically for his skill set. Dirk was on a team that was designed around him. Manu's role and opportunities have been limited by playing on a team where everything (with good reason) goes through Tim Duncan.
And to answer those that argue basketball is a team sport - Manu has been the ultimate team player. He has accepted a role coming off the bench, because that gave the team the best chance to win championships. (No screaming, please. At least the coach believed it, and Manu accepted it.) I don't think that anyone would dispute that Manu's individual stats and accolades have suffered as a consequence.
Some will disagree, but I think you can take Dirk off the top of the list just based on his epic failures in the playoffs. Nash's numbers have been incredible in Phoenix. But it reminds me of the Run-And-Gun that the Houston Oilers ran, with Warren Moon and all those lightning-fast receivers. They piled up huge numbers, but got the crap kicked out of them in the playoffs when they went up against the heavyweights. I'm glad that there isn't much debate over Yao, anyway.
Since the comment was made about the best foreign player in the "history" of the NBA, we must be able to look backwards as well, right? So we should look at the best of Manu. When he first came here, he was electrifying. He's had to subdue his game somewhat to fit within Pop's system. But ask yourself what he would have looked like playing in a wide-open offense. I know I remember games where Duncan and/or Parker were hurt, and Manu has turned it on, seemingly at will, and carried the team. I happen to believe he could have done that consistently, had it been required or had he been given the opportunity.
And finally, if basketball is a team sport, it is also played on both ends of the court. Manu has played his whole NBA career on a team that absolutely demanded defense. And he has worn his ass out playing "defense first". Anyone here bold enough to discuss Dirk's defense in comparison to Manu's? Nash's defense is better than Dirk's, but do you think he would have piled up his MVP stats playing under Pop? When you talk about "best player" I don't see how you can totally discount 50% of the game. (Or 75%, if you play for the Spurs.)
Arguing about "best player" is about as useful as aruging about Batman vs. Aquaman. You'll never prove anything, and it's kind of silly if you ever think about it too hard. But I sure as don't think you can put Manu in a separate, lower category than Nash and Dirk. And I don't think you can safely discount winning. When a guy does it consistently, over a long period of time, it's more than good fortune.
And even if you say that Manu, Nash, and Dirk are equal, I say Manu wins because he's a Spur. So off!
You make some good points, none more salient than the bolded one. I could rattle off some more points of my own but they aren't going to get us any closer to anything concrete. Trying to order 4 potential hall of famers like that is going to come down to splitting hairs at some point.
I don't get why everyone gets riled up about Pierce saying "best." "Best" to him is just his opinion - his favorite. It's not something you can prove or disprove; it's just his opinion. I don't think Manu is the best foreign player in the league now or in history, but he's damn exciting, humble, incredibly efficient, clutch, and has a crazy will to win. I'm glad he's on the Spurs and I wouldn't want to trade to him.
As for the "I would sign Ginobili" part ... if you asked any player in the league, "Would you want Manu Ginobili on your team?" They'd probably say yes. That doesn't mean they think he's the better than anyone else particularly, just that they acknowledge is great and would improve their team.
I didn't want to use "Ginobili the best Intl Player of the history of the NBA" tle knowing that Paul said it too not to exaggerate and start an unfortunately unavoidable TP vs. Manu discussion... the rest of the Argentinean press did use THAT le.. and for the benefit of ST... it was here before THEY posted it
Dayum... Kori laying down the law.
See you later xtremesteven.
So what consists of Tony or Manu bashing or pitting them against each other? If I say Parker is better will that get me banned? Or just saying @#$%^ about one?
The constant trashing of one player to build up the other is annoying the heck out of me. Just look at ducks posts yesterday for examples.
I did not even post anything about tp yesterday
You don't have to mention Tony. You just trash Manu constantly because for some reason that makes you think it makes Tony look better. Anyway, this conversation is over. Back to Paul Pierce ...
I guess everyone forgot he threw gang signs after he won the Championship.
was truly that the excuse the NFL used for their new rule to ban celebrations? i can't believe that... it seems a weak statement from them since it's not something that happened on their league...
Chocolate Chip Pecan cookies are the “best” and tiramisu is the greatest imported dessert ever
mmmm tiramisu. ah.... damn you! i want some right now. although i'd have to say tres leches is awesome too.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/athletes/athlete=555/qa/
i don't know if this one was posted but it's really good.. on here Manu says that he is an NBA champ because he is lucky to play on the Spurs... vs winning gold...
Tres Leches is my wife's fav.
bull on both answersDo you think Ginobili is one of the great players in the NBA?
- I would sign Ginobili. He is the best foreign player in the history of the NBA.
Is Kobe Bryant the best player nowadays?
I don't think Kobe is the best, I am the best. There is a line that separates being presumptuous and self confidence. I do not cross that line but i a big deal of self confidence.
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