Where is the outrage from the leftists on this board?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You same ers who were ing about Bush and Co. getting the cell phone companies to comply with warrantless wiretaps, etc. are quiet today on this one...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...sing-bill.html

Pelosi and Co. are tucking a neat little provision into the Fannie/Freddie bailout (which is bull in itself) that requires all credit card transactions to be reported to the gvt.

Yep, anything you buy via credit card will now be reported to big brother.

Be sure and write Pelosi and Obama a thank you note for this one.

[Mr. Peabody]

You same ers who were ing about Bush and Co. getting the cell phone companies to comply with warrantless wiretaps, etc. are quiet today on this one...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...sing-bill.html

Pelosi and Co. are tucking a neat little provision into the Fannie/Freddie bailout (which is bull in itself) that requires all credit card transactions to be reported to the gvt.

Yep, anything you buy via credit card will now be reported to big brother.

Be sure and write Pelosi and Obama a thank you note for this one.

Nice. Except for the fact that it was a Republican that included this provision in the bill.

Never let facts stand in the way of your misguided rantings....

Who is behind the Dodd Housing Bill Ebay Amendment? Sadly, It’s a Republican

Sadly, its one of our own that has come up with one of the most ludicrous amendments to what is already seen by many as one horrible package of legislation.

It’s none other than Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa that has developed the language that would essentially open the door to online merchants like Ebay, Amazon, Google Checkout, etc. reporting all of their transaction activity to the government.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Nice. Except for the fact that it was a Republican that included this provision in the bill.

Never let facts stand in the way of your misguided rantings....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Nice. Except for the fact that it was a Republican that included this provision in the bill.

Never let facts stand in the way of your misguided rantings....

I'm sorry, how many Democrats voted against this bill again?

Grassley 'inserted' the provision, but he had sign off from both sides of the aisle before rolling it out there.

Thanks for playing.

[Mr. Peabody]

I'm sorry, how many Democrats voted against this bill again?

Grassley 'inserted' the provision, but he had sign off from both sides of the aisle before rolling it out there.

Thanks for playing.

Nice backtracking....

Pelosi and Co. are tucking a neat little provision into the Fannie/Freddie bailout (which is bull in itself) that requires all credit card transactions to be reported to the gvt.

Unless by Pelosi and Co. you meant Pelosi and the Republicans, you misrepresented facts. Not a big deal, just own up to it.

Also, if "both sides of the aisle" had to sign off on it, doesn't that mean Republicans had to sign off on it? Or are "both sides of the aisle" Democrat?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Nice backtracking....



Unless by Pelosi and Co. you meant Pelosi and the Republicans, you misrepresented facts. Not a big deal, just own up to it.

Also, if "both sides of the aisle" had to sign off on it, doesn't that mean Republicans had to sign off on it? Or are "both sides of the aisle" Democrat?

When I originally read about this, the article said it was sponsored by a Democrat with Pelosi's blessing. My apologies.

As to your second comment, the Republicans are in the minority, the Demos could have blocked it, but wanted it to go through.

This country is looking more and more like the USSA every ing day.

[Mr. Peabody]

When I originally read about this, the article said it was sponsored by a Democrat with Pelosi's blessing. My apologies.

As to your second comment, the Republicans are in the minority, the Demos could have blocked it, but wanted it to go through.

This country is looking more and more like the USSA every ing day.

Honestly, on this thing, we're arguing for the sake of arguing. I disagree with this provision as much as you do. My research didn't reveal the rationale for this provision and I am interested is seeing what it is alleged to have been.

[Mr. Peabody]

Chucking Privacy
By Matt Kibbe
Published 6/24/2008 12:08:02 AM

If one were to list the seven wonders of the Internet, that massive online auction site eBay would be near the top of the list.

It's a virtual flea market in which you can browse and buy everything from anthropomorphized socks to Barack Obama's half-eaten waffles. eBay allows anyone with an Internet connection to satisfy their urge for garage-sale eccentricities from the security and privacy of their own home.

But if Iowa's Senator Chuck Grassley gets his way, any expectation of privacy will soon go the way of Netscape Navigator. Grassley snuck a provision into the mortgage bailout bill currently winding its way through Congress that will require credit card processing companies to track and store data on any online vendor who makes more than 200 transactions a year or sells any item with a value of more than $10,000. Once these payments are tracked and reported, any profits they generate can be taxed.

Thought the IRS knew too much before? Wait till it's got access to the sales records for your diamond-studded, gnome-shaped salt-and-pepper shaker collection.

Believe it or not, increased tax demands from the IRS aren't the biggest problem with the mandate. Ostensibly, the purpose of the law is to raise money. It's being pitched as a revenue offset for other spending in the mortgage bill. But the amount the law's authors estimate they will collect is relatively small -- only about a billion dollars a year.

Instead, the biggest threat is the tracking itself, which is almost certainly a foot in the door to greater government snooping into online sales that effectively conscripts private organizations to do the bureaucracy's dirty work.


FORCING PRIVATE organizations to busy themselves with the government's record keeping sets a dangerous precedent. For one thing, it puts a heavy recordkeeping burden on small businesses. In House testimony, Todd McCracken of the National Small Business Association argued that, under this law, many business will be "subject to greatly increased audits," despite having done nothing illegal.

It also sets the stage for the further use of business intermediaries as extensions of the tax-and-regulatory infrastructure. That's a disincentive for businesses to add services -- more records-keeping and administrative costs will make new risks less likely -- and it undermines trust in the market. When any online business becomes an informant, that's likely to scare off business.

Some believe the current scheme won't even work. As David Sohn of the Center for Democracy and Technology recently explained to Congress, "it is quite likely that the government will need even more information in order to make use of the information that banks would be required to report initially..."

In other words, the law would mandate the collection of just enough information to be dangerous, but not enough to be effective. And when the current plan fails it will only lead to calls for more detailed -- and more invasive -- data collection.

In general, the best way to promote privacy is to collect and store as little information as possible. You can't steal, abuse, or garble information that doesn't exist. But when bad actors know valuable personal data is there, it makes any business storing it a more attractive target. Stockpiling sensitive details will only increase the risk of iden y theft or data breach.


THERE IS NO question that the information the law would require be stored is quite sensitive.

The law would require companies to track these transactions using Taxpayer Identification Numbers (TINs). Often, especially in the case of small businesses, TINs are just Social Security numbers. And when it comes to online iden y, Social Security numbers are the most precious family jewels. When the FTC investigated online iden y theft last year, it found that Social Security numbers were the "most valuable commodity" for thieves.

Further, the FCC said that reducing the use of Social Security numbers -- which presumably includes their storage -- was the single most important step that could be taken in reducing incidents of electronic ID fraud. That means Grassley's mandate would explicitly contradict the government's own recommendations for preserving online privacy.

Perhaps that's not surprising. As John Barlow, a Grateful Dead lyricist who co-founded the privacy watchdog Electronic Frontier Foundation, once said, "Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds."

That's especially true when Sen. Grassley's involved. He has developed an unfortunate fetish for reporting more information to the government. As head of the Senate Finance Committee, he's spent years investigating the tax status of various non-profit organizations.

The same nosy impulse that's caused Grassley to root around in the dealings of televangelists is what's driving the current law.

It's an impulse based on a false understanding of public accountability. In many cases, when someone notes that a politician wants more accountability, that's a good thing. But Grassley's notion of how it ought to work is grass backwards.

You see, the government is supposed to be accountable to the people, not the other way around.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Honestly, on this thing, we're arguing for the sake of arguing. I disagree with this provision as much as you do. My research didn't reveal the rationale for this provision and I am interested is seeing what it is alleged to have been.

Gotcha. It just pisses me off seeing all this bailout on the back of American taxpayers. As if those of us on the hook with the IRS aren't paying enough as is, now we're supposed to take care of the ups of Bear Stearns, Fannie, Freddie, etc. Where does it end?

Hey, I still have some money left to pay on my truck, maybe I can get a bailout next... Un ingbelievable...

It's just scary what is going on in D.C. right now. We're getting the dog and pony show with McCain and Obama, meanwhile Congress is selling the American taxpayer down the river to bail out their up friends on Wall Street, the Fed, and at Fannie and Freddie.

[MannyIsGod]

Thats a horrible rider to a bill. Both parties are guilty of using riders to pass that otherwise would never pass. If the dems don't vote for it they get killed by the republicans in an election year over how they don't care about economics so I'm not going to sit here and berate them for not stalling it when a republican added it on. Thats just ing silly.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Thats a horrible rider to a bill. Both parties are guilty of using riders to pass that otherwise would never pass. If the dems don't vote for it they get killed by the republicans in an election year over how they don't care about economics so I'm not going to sit here and berate them for not stalling it when a republican added it on. Thats just ing silly.

I agree, it's just sad that because it's an election year the vast majority of us get to bend over and take it up the ass in the name of democracy.

Where's the reset button for Congress when you need it?

[ElNono]

You same ers who were ing about Bush and Co. getting the cell phone companies to comply with warrantless wiretaps, etc. are quiet today on this one...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...sing-bill.html

Pelosi and Co. are tucking a neat little provision into the Fannie/Freddie bailout (which is bull in itself) that requires all credit card transactions to be reported to the gvt.

Yep, anything you buy via credit card will now be reported to big brother.

Be sure and write Pelosi and Obama a thank you note for this one.

You missed the entire point. If Bush would have sent a bill to Congress to allow the wiretaps, and Congress passed it, then no democrat would have been ing. The problem is that he didn't do that.

[ElNono]

Gotcha. It just pisses me off seeing all this bailout on the back of American taxpayers. As if those of us on the hook with the IRS aren't paying enough as is, now we're supposed to take care of the ups of Bear Stearns, Fannie, Freddie, etc. Where does it end?

Hey, I still have some money left to pay on my truck, maybe I can get a bailout next... Un ingbelievable...

It's just scary what is going on in D.C. right now. We're getting the dog and pony show with McCain and Obama, meanwhile Congress is selling the American taxpayer down the river to bail out their up friends on Wall Street, the Fed, and at Fannie and Freddie.

It's not just Congress (although I do agree with you that Congress is doing it's part). Don't forget that Henry Paulson is the one working overtime to get this bill through. Bush claimed he was going to veto the bill with some Dems provisions in there, but he had a change of heart, and is going to sign it anyways. My biggest issue with this is that it's just not a political party thing. This is a major bailout for rich people supported from both parties.
Truly a disgrace.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's not just Congress (although I do agree with you that Congress is doing it's part). Don't forget that Henry Paulson is the one working overtime to get this bill through. Bush claimed he was going to veto the bill with some Dems provisions in there, but he had a change of heart, and is going to sign it anyways. My biggest issue with this is that it's just not a political party thing. This is a major bailout for rich people supported from both parties.
Truly a disgrace.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Dip s like crutons think this will change if Obama gets elected. The greatest thing that could happen to our country at this point is term limits to be imposed.

Right now these ers get to D.C. and get bought out by big business and that's all she wrote. Meanwhile, we all get told we have to pick up the tab for the rich ers ing up while playing with our money.

[BradLohaus]

I guess it's nice that they decided to tell us that they know all of our credit card transactions.

Also, the Chinese and the Japanese are the biggest foreign holders of Fannie and Freddie debt (and, thanks to the trade deficit, dollar reserves - not a bad bargaining chip), so they won't like being told to just eat their US mortgage losses. They will never let them just go under; they will always bail them out, no matter what the cost is to us.

And guess who the number three foreign holder of Freddie and Fannie debt is. Why it's the most reputable place on earth - the Cayman Islands. The people who decided on the bail out probably have accounts there.

[Anti.Hero]

I thought this was going to be an Edwards thread

[braeden0613]

Power is something that is bipartisan. The Democrats may proclaim they want to protect your privacy, but it really means nothing when there is something to be gained. You can bet that if things like the Patriot Act and warrantless wiretapping were passed under a Democratic administration, Republicans would vote against it and say the same things the Dems have said. This isnt going to change when Obama is elected, he just voted for the frickin' FISA bill!

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Where's the reset button for Congress when you need it?

[Anti.Hero]

^haha

[Nbadan]

I guess it's nice that they decided to tell us that they know all of our credit card transactions.

Yep...it's likely another CYA provision to a bill for something that they have been doing for years...I don't want the government tracking my transactions either but quite honestly, they can tell where you shopped but not what was purchased...also, most people have GPS on their cell phones and in their cars so the government can already tell where you are and where you've been...it's an iden y theft prevention bill..

[DarkReign]

Yep...it's likely another CYA provision to a bill for something that they have been doing for years...I don't want the government tracking my transactions either but quite honestly, they can tell where you shopped but not what was purchased...also, most people have GPS on their cell phones and in their cars so the government can already tell where you are and where you've been...it's an iden y theft prevention bill..

No its isnt. Its making knowledge the government already has legal without a court order/warrant to gain said knowledge against you.

Its bull .

[FromWayDowntown]

Yeah, I don't see how compelling greater dissemination of SSNs or other personal information to allow reporting to the government can possibly be characterized as an iden y theft prevention bill. It does seem to me to be another step in eroding basic civil liberties, such as the right to privacy, and unlike, say wiretaps, there doesn't even seem to be a politically-reasonable justification for doing it. It would be disingenuous on my part to blame either side, since each is responsible for passing nonsensical laws like this one. I hate Congress.

[Marcus Bryant]

So both parties don't care about our civil liberties? Surprise.

[boutons_]

The oligarchical corporate/fascist state is taking over, has taken over?, behind the usual facade of "national security" and hyped external threats.

When I say something along those lines, I'm an America-hating paranoid communist.

When Aggie says it, he's considers himself a ing super-patriot liberatarian.

We, "democratic" suckers and money-sources, have to realize it doesn't ing matter anymore what any of us think/do/say. The plutocratic, kleptocratic oligarchy is in full control.

[DarkReign]

Surprise.

...for some.