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I think you're an idiot if you think we won't see an upgrade over Horry. He did absolutely nothing for us last year.
The Spurs defense in 2007-08 was very good. They were 3rd in the NBA in points allowed per game, at 90.6. They were 5th in the league in opponent FG%, at 44.43%. They were 3rd in opponent 3P% at 34%. All of this after a worrying stretch early in the season when they were in the 20s in some of these categories, notably opponent FG%. This being said, there's good reason to believe that the 2008-09 Spurs will be even better defensively. Let's break it down:
Jacque Vaughn replaced by George Hill:
I'm pretty sure that George Hill will take the minutes previously occupied by Jacque Vaughn. No doubt Vaughn is a good enough defender, or else he wouldn't be thrust into the backup PG role on the Spurs. George Hill is a rookie, and therefore an unknown quan y at this level. In college, he was often asked to defend the opposing team's best player. In the summer league, he showed very fast feet and solid defensive skills. The question is how Hill adjusts to this level of play. Only time will tell.
Verdict: Not enough information (Most likely possibility: Improvement or similar performance)
Michael Finley replaced by Roger Mason Jr.:
It's not decided whether Finley will be back on this roster. In fact, by all accounts, he probably will be. However, if the expectations on this board prove correct and Mason begins eating up a lot of the minutes previously occupied by Finley, we should expect defensive improvements at this position. Finley was not a very good defender the last couple years. Mason, on the other hand, made it into the league based on his defense, with his only great offensive year coming last year. The Spurs felt so confident in his defensive abilities that they tried to sign him last summer, before his offensive revolution. If Mason gets solid minutes in the SG slot, it improves our defense over Finley or Barry.
Verdict: Improvement
Brent Barry replaced by Ime Udoka:
This one is a stretch, because Ime isn't replacing Barry per se. However, with Barry gone and Finley expected to get limited minutes (if he returns), this should only increase Ime Udoka's minutes. He showed signs of being a very good fit in this organization last year; with increased minutes this year (including the possibility of getting a few extra minutes with Ginobili/Bowen needing a few more minutes of rest), Udoka should have the chance to show off his defensive skills this year. Also, don't forget that this is his second year in the organization, and this system's defense takes about a year to learn (see Kurt Thomas below).
Verdict: Improvement
Francisco Elson replaced by Kurt Thomas:
Thomas is a great defensive player. Elson is not. While Thomas joined the team in the latter half of the year, and certainly helped the 2nd half + playoffs, he didn't have enough time to fully learn the system. This year, Thomas will gain another year's experience in the Spurs proven defensive scheme, and will likely get additional minutes, particularly down the stretch.
Verdict: Improvement
Robert Horry replaced by Mahinmi/Bonner/Gist/Tolliver:
Horry didn't get a lot of minutes last year. Those he did get, he hustled on defense and was an underrated defender. Those minutes will be filled by virtual rookies on the experience scale. While it's not a huge amount of minutes, these rookies will play a big role in the Spurs defense down low.
Verdict: Not enough information (Likely: Downgrade, or similar if we're lucky)
All of this considered, is there any reason the Spurs defense shouldn't be better next year? The only reason I can think of is an aging Bruce Bowen, but he has shown to us time and time again that his age doesn't matter. I hope this is the case again this year.
Let me know what you think.
I think you're an idiot if you think we won't see an upgrade over Horry. He did absolutely nothing for us last year.
I would say Bonner's defense is worse than Horry, Tolliver is about the same, Ian is a little better, and Gist is much better.
JV gets hated on but he brought the D...and the hustle. Hill might have shut down guys at IUPUI but he's gonna be seeing a completely different level of talent now.
Agree with all but the Horry part, we will be much better off this year than with him. He was not an NBA player last year.
But nice thread.
Horry three years from now would be a better defender than each of those four players listed will be next year.
Although this offseason has been a bit quiet, the defensive upgrade is the aspect I'm happy with. Losing Horry will hurt but everywhere else the defense should be upgraded. My only nitpick with the original post is I think Barry will be replaced by Mason and Finley will HOPEFULLY be replaced by Udoka.
Although I'm not sure that Finley just won't be replaced by .... Finley plus one year
I guess I was focusing on the starting lineup, as Mason is much more likely to start next to Bowen than Udoka is, at least in my mind.
Horry three years from now would be a better defender than each of those four players listed will be next year.
Although this offseason has been a bit quiet, the defensive upgrade is the aspect I'm happy with. Losing Horry will hurt but everywhere else the defense should be upgraded. My only nitpick with the original post is I think Barry will be replaced by Mason and Finley will HOPEFULLY be replaced by Udoka.
Although I'm not sure that Finley just won't be replaced by .... Finley plus one year
I'm hoping that Mahinmi next year will be a better defender than Horry at age 48.
And I agree that the prospect of Finley being replaced by Finley + 1 year is very
Edit: timvp said 3 years from now, not 10. I'd be happy if Mahinmi is as good a defender as Horry at age 41.
Last edited by lurker23; 07-29-2008 at 09:38 PM.
I'm just glad the team won't be starting the season with Elson on the roster and excited at the prospect of KT (barring injury) spending an ENTIRE year with the squad. Even being a year older, he brings a toughness to the middle that the team has been lacking in the past few seasons when TD has had to rest. He's not outleaping anyone at this stage in his career, but he a very smart rebounder and defender that has a knack for putting himself in a position to make plays (take a charge, grab a board, etc.) rather than take himself out of them.
this was easily horry's worst year here, but its an exageration to say he gave us nothing, when he played in the playoffs and gave us a few nice minutes, especially with steals. his shot was bad but he had his moments where he hit 3-4 3s in a row, and there really wasnt a better option in bonner.
if horry gave us nothing, bonner gave us less than that, and right now most of horry's injury limited minutes are going to bonner or tolliver, who i've yet to see, but understand is not known for being a good defender either.
hill also is unproven...
on paper they got better defensively just by getting more athletic, but they have to prove it by learning the system and making good decisions, easier said than done.
Correction: Finley was not a good defender in any of his years.
horry played great D in the playoffs IMO. to hope we get equal production from the 4 rookies as far as defense goes is fair.
Horry knew how to play D but his body just quit on him. Hopefully he'll join the coaching staff and show guys like Gist and Tolliver how to play smart.
i agree, major upgrade over finleys D and kurt thomas has about half a season under his belt.
That's an absurd notion. JV pretended to play defense, but almost every guard just shot over him! He was a liability on both ends of the court and Pop was a complete idiot not to notice!
Horry in my opinion was a pretty good help defender. But he's kinda soft when he someone posts him up. Ian and Tolliver would be better in that area. I see Gist more like a Battier type defender, defending against perimeter players and SFs.
Ian defensively will definitely be better than Elson.
Six foot five shooting guard acquisition backed up by michael finley!
That is a surefire formulae for defensive success.
What a ing waste of time. Did you really type that? I made it through the first sentence.
It will all come together in 2010... even if Duncan is old by then. [/front office]
by the way it's lose............
How will the Spurs be better at anything? They've done absolutely nothing to beat the Hornets, the Lakers, the Celtics, or the Pistons. Nothing. But hey, good try.
exactly... Portland will probably be owning the entire league by then.
And you would be quite familiar with that word. You've had a life long association with that word and all of its variations.
Hitting you with an 18 wheeler going 70 mph on I-10 would help make the Spurs better.How will the Spurs be better at anything? They've done absolutely nothing to beat the Hornets, the Lakers, the Celtics, or the Pistons. Nothing. But hey, good try.
that would be nice, but i think he said he is not interested in coaching.
I was very disappointed in the Spurs' defense last season. Granted, the rules changes have made it more difficult to defend the perimeter players, however .445 opp. fg% in the regular season and worse in the playoffs is not championship caliber D. I consider .430 or lower championship caliber. The Spurs were just fortunate in 2006-07 to make up for their defensive deficiencies with Elson and Fin. Thanks to TP, the offensive efficiency was good and kept them in it.
There is no way to tell for sure if the new players will improve the D. First of all, we don't know if Mike Finley will be back with the Spurs again. Most players don't get the Spurs' defensive scheme down until they have started their 2nd year in the system. Udoka and Thomas should improve but Mason and Hill are newbies to the defensive rotations. Since only 8 or 9 players get more than 12 minutes a game, it's hard to say if the D will be better this early.
Oh, and Robert Horry had plenty of savvy and made the most with what he had, but he had very poor lateral movement last year and his perimeter mobility and his ability to stay with his man switching the screens was abyssmal. That's why he won't be back.
Last edited by Solid D; 07-30-2008 at 12:12 AM.
100% on the dot. The defensive upgrade is what this team needed and they got it. People might be expecting too much from all the rookies, but overall, I think the defense improved.
Horry three years from now would be a better defender than each of those four players listed will be next year.
Although this offseason has been a bit quiet, the defensive upgrade is the aspect I'm happy with. Losing Horry will hurt but everywhere else the defense should be upgraded. My only nitpick with the original post is I think Barry will be replaced by Mason and Finley will HOPEFULLY be replaced by Udoka.
Although I'm not sure that Finley just won't be replaced by .... Finley plus one year
We have a good offense with regards to getting good looks. Our defense is what has slipped over the past couple of years. I think our youth movement has guaranteed defense and offensive potential. I can live with that.
Offense?
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