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As a backup, why not?
And the only reason I included him was because he's a center the Spurs have rights to.
If Oberto is traded, for anyone or anything, we'd need a player to fill his role in our lacking center position.
Why would anyone think Javtokas is good enough to be in the NBA?
As a backup, why not?
And the only reason I included him was because he's a center the Spurs have rights to.
If Oberto is traded, for anyone or anything, we'd need a player to fill his role in our lacking center position.
The same people who think that any team in the NBA would want to trade for Matt Bonner.
If he were, wouldn't he have come over by now. Also, I'm sure the $$$ he's making in Europe far exceed anything he can command over here.
Because he's horrible?
if the spurs truly wanted this guy, he would have been here by now.
let's face reality, javtokie will never be a spur.
Well, I haven't watched enough of the guy to form any real opinion. I've seen a few basic highlights but you're probably correct.
Well he's probably not horrible exactly. But I'm not sure he'd get off the bench in San Antonio.
Off the top of my head, spurs:
Elson
Jackie Butler
Oberto (Yeah he's got lots of BBIQ, he's got less athleticism than I do)
Horry (07/08 only)
non-spurs
Chris Andersen
Chris Mihm
David Harrison
Zaza Pachulia
Shelden Williams
...
The list goes on...
His bad year and his quite big contract are reasons why his trade value is quite low.
Word is that Bulls have offered Nocioni+Simmons+1st round pick to Kings for Brad Miller. If Spurs wants Nocioni, they have a shot to get him.
They would probably want Ian, money, a first rounder, and something else...I can't see us getting involved in this, especially considering Noce's contract. Wouldn't that mess up their mythical 2010 plan?
We would have to give up a big in order to do this.
and possibly another veteran to help out in the locker room and play D.
That seems like a pretty good deal for the Kings as a rebuilding move. I'd probably take that if I were Petrie. Miller is not nearly the same player he used to be. I'm not sure what Paxson is thinking.
Makes perfect sense. I knew they would be looking for a veteran big. Which was why I wanted the Spurs to do a S&T with KT/Bonner for Thabo and Tyrus. I would love Noc, but I just do not know if we can afford to give up a big.
I wonder what other Bulls are on the block? I'd guess Gordon, Sefolosha and Thomas are all available for the right price. If that is the case, I'd consider making a move for Thomas and Sefolosha, even if it cost the Spurs Mahinmi.
I'd love to have nocioni, just not sure on how to accquire him.
again, i dont see any value in the KT/bonner package, and especially not for that package. the bulls value both thabo and TT at more than said package, and this deal has them including both?
look at what they are offering for miller: simmons (who has next to zero value for the bulls), nocioni (a solid 6th man type, but making a good bit of cash over a rather long period of time, and playing a redundant role on the bulls), and a 1st (presumably to offset the issue of longterm salary being taken on). each one of those pieces has less value to the bulls than thabo (debatable with noc) or TT (easily), and it would be landing them a package much better than KT/bonner.
How do they value Tyrus and Thabo more than Nocioni? If Nocioni is a solid 6th man than Thabo and TT are further down the depth chart. They need veteran bigs, which is why deal for Brad Miller was offered. KT/Bonner = Brad Miller and Thabo/Tyrus = Nocioni imo.
Especially with how TT worked his way out of the rotation with his at ude.
nocioni is used as a 3/4 in chicago. so the last two years, hes been leaching minutes from TT, and bulls fans have been pretty livid. its seems to be part of the unrest from the whole skiles fiasco (not playing the kids, thabo and TT particularly). and with the addition of gooden (a better pf than noc, and the starter going into the season from the looks of it), you can probably bet that noc is going to be seeing even less minutes at pf.
so that leaves backing up deng, who is good for 30-35 minutes per. that doesnt leave a lot of minutes for noc. and at 8 mil next season, thats a good bit of change to be spending on a 6th man who is fighting just to break the 20 minute mark. pax loves noc, but he loved him when his team was a 50 game winner fighting to get out of the 2nd round. he now may not be willing to pay that much for a player that doesnt have a clear spot right now (and if this sac rumor is true, he isnt).
as for thabo, depending on what happens with hinrich, gordon and hughes (any combination of which could be gone by the deadline next season or sooner), thabo looks like he may be one of their primary wings off the bench. after skiles got the boot and he stated getting some PT, he put up some very nice numbers:
25.3 mpg, 8.5 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 1.6 ast, 1.3 stl in jan
31.6 mpg, 12.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 3.1 ast, 1.2 stl in feb
21.2 mpg, 8.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.4 ast, 0.7 stl in mar
hes a part of their future, not a throw in. as for the KT/bonner = miller and thabo/TT = noc, i guess we just simply arent close to seeing eye to eye on this situation. IMHO, miller > KT/bonner and thabo/TT > noc and both by a comfortable margin.
You make some valid points, but we both are making assumptions about what coaches and gm's think. I think the reason I like Noc>Thabo/TT is because, as you mention, Nocioni helps a team win now, helps you compete for a le. I am not sure that TT and Thabo do that for the Bulls. They could help the Spurs more, but Nocioni is better than both of them in that regard.
Miller is probably better than KT/Bonner, but not by much.
im not sure you can say that the bulls are competing for a le right now. even if they recover from last year, i dont think they can hang with boston, detroit, orlando, phili, or toronto unless both rose and TT have HUGE breakout-type years. thats why i dont think noc holds as much value as he did two years ago (that and his rather poor showing last season). that team was on the cusp of really being something good, then the wheels fell off, and we have to wait and see what happens from here on out.
i can see how noc on the spurs could be a strong fit, and i love chapu and his official theme song:
but i bet if you took a poll of gms around the league, you would be hard pressed to find many (if any) that would take noc over both thabo and TT. with noc you get a solid 6th man type, on a semi-reasonable priced, but long contract. with thabo and TT, you get a top-5 pick big whose still developing and oozing with potential while already a half decent rotation player (good for about 7 & 5 in less than 20 mpg right now, which is just a bit better than what we got out of our bigs last season production wise), and young wing who has shown he is a productive player, whose long, a solid defender, can rebound and has some above average ball handling ability (think a homeless mans manu, whose shown flashes of a poor mans manu).
if its a matter of getting one veteran, quality 6th man, or two young, quality rotations player with lots of upside, i take the latter almost every time, especially with how the spurs are currently cons uted.
I think Nocioni would be a much better fit for the Spurs. Obviously I would take Thabo/TT. I think it is trading veteran leadership for "upside". Thabo is not even a poor mans Manu. He is a productive, defensive player. TT could be a very good player, but what is his ceiling? If you do not think the Bulls could compete for the le, then my trade makes no sense because you do not need veteran leadership. But why would they get rid of Nocioni for Brad Miller if they did not think they can win now? It is not a long-term move
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