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Thabo sucks. He is just an avg offensive player and is a sloppy ball handler. He was over hyped as a rookie.
GM's that are not concerned with realistically competing for a le would take TT/Thabo all day, but ones that need that piece to get over the hump would rather have Noc imo.
Thabo sucks. He is just an avg offensive player and is a sloppy ball handler. He was over hyped as a rookie.
Thabo does not suck at all. He is not an all-star, but a nice young player that would of fit in with the Spurs at the 2/3.
Why do we want Jakusov again?
He was saying if we trade Oberto/... for Nocioni then we would need another center and Javtokas would be it.
I just want to say Jakusov Jak - us - ov
Jack us off
oh well nevermind
again, i said a homeless mans manu right now. but you wouldnt qualify 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 3 ast, 1 stl, with solid defense, decent outside shooting, and above average ball handling as a poor mans manu?
as for the miller trade, it makes a bit of sense on a couple of levels. first off, it clears a positional log jam, while filling a void. you move noc, which frees up minutes at both the 3 and the 4, allowing more time for both thabo and TT. it also fills a need at center where you have a rather weak rotation (noah, plus gooden/TT playing a bit small, with aaron gray glued to the bench). just because you might not have a shot at a le, doesnt mean you want to field an inferior product. unless you happen to be miami...
it also makes some sense financially. while miller is more expensive right now, his total salary is actually less than that of noc (24 mi over two year vs 29 mil of 4 years). and his salary next season is only 1.6 mil more than the package the bulls would be sending out. brad miller along with larry hughes would also give the bull about 26 mil in expiring contracts going into the hallowed 2010 offseason. they might be able to swing one or both of those deals down the road to team a team looking to quickly shed salary.
They could get the same amount of money off the books with KT/Oberto and Hughes in 2010.
I would consider 11ppg, 5 rpg, 3 asst, 1 stl a poor mans Nocioni.
Javoktas suck, stop with this !
i thought we were on thabo/TT for KT/bonner and miller for noc/simmons. if we are debating KT/bonner for noc now, then i think thats a bit closer, but still not ideal for the bulls. KT would be solid off the bench for chicago (similar to what joe smith gave them the 1st half of last year), but he doesnt offer near the production of miller (6-7 ppg & 6-7 rpg vs 10-15 ppg & 8-10 rpg). bonner holds negative value here, offering the bulls zero production, especially if simmons is still on the roster.
as for the 2010 expirings, its not just about clearing the money off the books, its packaging those pieces in trade. the fact that the money is still off doesnt mean its as valuable as a larger expiring, which miller has compared to the KT/bonner package. its not like its a significant amount or anything (about 5 mil give or take), but its still of lesser value, even if only slightly.
the spurs probably have to offer a bit more in said package to get things done, with 1 or 2 future seconds having to suffice (not able to trade a 1st until 2011). but even then, i dont like it more for the bull than the miller for noc/simmons deal. now i think the additional 1st rounder is a bit much from the bulls, but if moderately protected (lottery), and with the current price of mid-to-late picks, its not too much to ask for with sac committing to chapus deal.
as for that aforementioned stat line being a poor mans noc, his career numbers of 12 ppg, 5 rpg, 1.3 ast, 0.4 stl would seem to point otherwise...
ya those are noc's career numbers, but his numbers were better than that last year in an "off year" and thabo's were no where close to that for the season.
Javtokas is not great player for Euroleague level but look at many big men in NBA. Javtokas is easily NBA level big man. Most big men in NBA are really terrible. he would not be impact player in NBA but he is definite good enough for NBA standard for big man.
This is stupid. Javtokas is a center and plays as a center. He is banger, rebounder, shot blocker with great athletic ability. Bonner is nothing like him. Bonner is 6-10 player with good shooting and 3 point range and can do nothing else in court. In NBA player like Javtokas is much more valuable than player like Bonner who is one dimension player.
This is what I said. Originally before any of the Spurs draftees or F.A. signings I said I see a need that can be filled through a trade with the Bulls. The KT/Bonner for Thabo/TT. Since the Spurs signed others and drafted, I said that KT/Bonner for Nocioni would make more sense for both teams now.
he posted 13.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.2 ast, 0.3 stl last year. one more point, one less rebound, with a negligible decline in the other 2, while shooting his lowest percentages since his rookie year. id say its about the same, even if you dont consider the shooting percentages.
as for thabo, again, thats why i said he has the potential to be that kind of player. i see that as his ceiling in the next couple of years. id put him in the 10-11 ppg, 4-5 rpg, 2-3 ast, 1-1.5 stl range given ~25 mpg with another year or so under his belt. especially when he put that very stat line up over a 3 month stretch last season.
Since he did not hit Noc's numbers and Noc's numbers are not anywhere close to Manu's, then Thabo is a poor mans Nocioni.
But that is besides the point. It does not look like the Spurs are making a move like this, so we will just have to see how they shape the roster.
we agree. but im not talking about last year. i called thabo a homeless mans manu with regards to his combination of stats/current skill set, which would probably equate to a poor mans chapu. so im not sure what you are arguing at this point.
If you look at last years number comparisons Nocioni was much better. Considering Nocioni shot his "worst" and had an off year, lets look at the number comparisons:
Thabo: 20.8 minutes, 6.7 points, 3.7 rebounds, 1.9 assist, .9 steals, .4 blocks, 42% FG, 72% FT and 33% 3 PT.
Nocioni: 24.6 minutes, 13.2 points, 4.2 rebounds, 1.2 assist, .3 steals, .5 blocks, 43% FG, 80% FT and 36% 3 PT.
So even in Nocioni's worst shooting year, he shot better than Thabo. Nocioni is a good defender as well. If Thabo could reach Nocioni that would be the best he could do.
I am just saying you can not call Thabo a poor mans Manu because he will never be that good. He might be able to reach Nocioni's level, but that is the max imo. That is why I said a poor mans Nocioni. If he can only reach the Nocioni level that that is the poor man reference. That is all. No biggie.
Does anyone know the last time we did a trade that wasn't right before the trading deadline? Was it the Danny Ferry/Ron Mercer deal?
but thats the exact point ive been making from the start...
Plus, Nocioni can be a little pest in the playoffs.
I would like to get him
My bad then, I thought you were saying he was a poor mans Manu, meaning he can reach Manu's level one day as his ceiling.
Its funny, it is like we are 2 GM's trying to come to terms on a deal. I wonder if this is sort of how they discuss things?
I got confused with your usage of "homeless man" and "poor man".
Why don't the Spurs just buy Europe and use it the way they use their D-League?
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