Look at my handle before you accuse me of "hating" on Tim.
I remember reading an article that was posted here just the other day (from FullSportPress) that called out Duncan, and I remembered thinking..."yeah I was beginning to feel that way too..." Mainly the article focused on his new lack of explosivness and his movement away from the low post and out to the top of the key. It lambasted him for taking little jumphooks instead of using the cunning and quickness he has for low post moves, you remember those right the trade mark of Duncan's domincance? I don't, I cant remember the last time I have seen him down there doing his Hakeem Olijuwan impression, the only thing I remember about Duncan is the new C-Webb impresonation he seems to love. Jump shots from the top of the key. Rasho lay-ups at the hoop? An over-reliance on his bank shot? What's worse is that he is being mauled for rebounds, and losing battles down there...to Nick Collison? Jerome James? Reggie Evans even? When did the Duncan of old fail to pull down 20 rebounds in a critical playoff game? Have you ever heard of Duncan having a field goal percentage of .482 for a series, let alone the playoffs?
What happened to his MVP form, his dominance, his unguardability 1 on 1? Ginobili has been the MVP of our team so far in the playoffs.... that's not going to win us a championship. Manu isn't LBJ or Kobe or MJ, he can be slowed down, and if we relly on him.... we're going to be elliminated very soon. The old Duncan was un-stoppable...you could never slow him down with out a triple team.... and you still would get beat about half the time with one.
Maybe one day he will get his old form back, but this isn't the story of the 2005 playoffs... this is the story of every game since the 2004 season... Duncan lost his domincance, lost his game, and began morphing into a slightly better rebounding version of C-Webb, he certainly hasn't been the MVP Tim Duncan this season, and he is no where near it right now, the scariest thing in the world for a Spurs fan.
Scroll down to read the article I refrenced and based this thread on if you have the desire to rant and rave without any intelligent angle to bring to the discourse.
Last edited by RobinsontoDuncan; 05-18-2005 at 05:02 PM. Reason: to inform everyone that the article is now posted
Tim Duncan has made the superlative appear ordinary during his eight seasons with the San Antonio Spurs. Superlative to the point that Spurs fans are levelling the highest insult possible in the Association by likening him to Chris Webber now.
Chris Webber didn't a win a championship, let alone two, son.
Have you no decency, sir?
Chris Webber doesn't belong in the same sentence ... make that paragraph ... make that book ... f' it, CWeb doesn't belong in the same language as Tim Duncan.
Ouch. This bashing of Tim is harsh. 35 pt game not good enough?
20 pt, 14 reb game lacking? (no Sonic player got double digit rebounding last night).
I just don't see where the Hate is coming from....
Tim had a series of ankle sprains this spring. happens.
now STFU about comparing him to Webber...
No comparison between Duncan and C-Web. Duncan is a winner...C-Web is a loser. Duncan is worn down due to all the basketball he has played for the past 2 years, almost continuous. He is worn out, but now is the time he needs to log major minutes.
Duncan is an increadible player. His efficiency has dropped a little, but he is still top 5 in the league.
If both Duncan and Manu play good games, the Spurs are very tough to defeat. If Duncan, Manu, and TP all have good games, they are virtually unbeatable.
Yeah... Webber would have hit that shot on Shaq in game 5.
TD can not shoot 3s like CWeb can.
In case anyone had any doubts on the matter:
Timmy is ranked 8 in Playoff PPG. Webber? Way down at 22.
Rebounds? Duncan is 6th. Webber? 38th.
Blocked Shots? Duncan is 3rd.Webber is not even on the list.
(all from nba.com: http://www.nba.com/statistics/2004/d...opic=0&stat=21)
Next time, think before you post.
Tim is probably the best single player in terms of doing it all (defense AND offense) in the playoffs.
If you sprained your ankle like he did the number of times he has this season, it would make you think twice about getting in that scrum to fight for rebounds with the number of feet below capable of ending our season and our championship dreams.
Everytime Fortson lays his big fat body on him as he's throwing up a jump hook, I'm looking down at his feet to see if they're gonna land on a flat ground instead of a big foot. Now just think about what you'd be thinking if you were surrounded by two other pairs of feet as you're fighting for a rebound. I know. It's a scary thought, isn't it?
I have to completely disagree and think maybe you are rushing to judgement a bit.
He's sprained his ankle several times this season alone, so that will put doubt in his mind, which is why he's not dominating on the boards all the time. Anytime you get in an accident you are tentative. Even a car accident. You start to become more cautious and that's how he is playing at times.
He's playing high post more often in order to allow both Parker & Manu to attack the lanes while bigs move out to guard Duncan. It's all by design. Duncan doesn't play high-post unless Pop wants him to. It is usually so the guards can get to the hoop either to score or to get to the charity stripe.
Didn't he just put on like a 39pt effort against Denver, one of the more tougher interior teams?
That's because Tim's not soft, and doesn't need to shoot threes. But as i recall he's 50% from the 3 pt line(I know that doesn't count, he's only shot 2).
Webber is at 39th, with 35.7%. How bad is that? Brent Barry is only 42nd (34.5%).
Duncan's ankle will not be 100% healthy until after the season. Though he is getting better on it, its not 100%. Plus anyone who has that kind of injury (speaking as someone who has, more than once) goes through mental issues along with the physical. The Spurs just need Duncan to be consistent, which he has been. When TD is consistent and others contribute, the Spurs win.
f' it, CWeb doesn't belong in the same language as Tim Duncan.
No kidding.
I was comparing his overall game dumbass, the way Duncan has been playing is webber like, did you even read my post?In case anyone had any doubts on the matter:
Timmy is ranked 8 in Playoff PPG. Webber? Way down at 22.
Rebounds? Duncan is 6th. Webber? 38th.
Blocked Shots? Duncan is 3rd.
Right. I had a 1 liner post saying Duncan and Cwebb are the same player, have a real take refute my arguments or move the on.Next time, think before you post.
Now you are on Crack, Amare, his last game not withstanding, has still been more dominant on both levels than Duncan. Didn't Duncan get beat by Nick Collison many times yestreday?Tim is probably the best single player in terms of doing it all (defense AND offense) in the playoffs.
And to everyone telling me that CWebb isnt a winner and therfore is not in the same category as Duncan, let me remind you that I am discussing the parallels in their games right now, not their career resumes.
Here's the source of my take, LJ tell me I'm not right on any levels when taking this into consideration.
A Shadow of Duncan
By Kris Rivenburgh
FullSportPress.com
Gregg Popovich said nobody on the team came to play playoff basketball…except Tim Duncan. Duncan may have had a big game statistically, but he didn’t play inspired basketball either.
Duncan’s game of today is a far cry from how he used to play. Duncan’s past play was skillful, dominant, and assertive all in one. In Game 4, he was beat to a rebound by Luke Ridnour after lazily walking over to collect it. Throughout the series, he has passed up opportunities to take the ball strong to the hoop – resorting to floaters, finger rolls, and short jumpers instead. Weren’t you waiting for a huge dunk over Nick Collison after he up-faked Danny Fortson? Yeah, well those don’t happen anymore.
Going to Duncan one-on-one in the low post is no longer a gimme. It’s a belabored point. Sometimes, he just jab steps and pump fakes until he jacks up a shot. Sometimes he waits for the double team, so he can pass. Others, he drives to the paint and chunks up a one-handed eight footer. Most often he’s seeking to create contact instead of actually trying to make the basket.
Gone is the intricate footwork that left defenders befuddled and drew comparisons to Hakeem Olajuwon. When is the last time you saw him switch things up and go to his left hand? Where is the guy that used to posterize other centers and power forwards on a regular basis?
That player is dead. The new T.D. doesn’t do that sort of stuff anymore. He’s still worried about getting hurt again - so now, he doesn’t jump. I always knew he wasn’t the “athletic” type of power forward, but since when does Tim have the spring of Dikembe Mutombo? Rather than snaring reachable rebounds, he elects to try to tip them out of the opponents’ grasp to himself. Blocking shots isn’t really his forte anymore, either. Instead of meeting driving opponents at the summit, Tim usually concedes baskets that close now.
His precision footwork in the low block has morphed into ramming defenders within seven feet of the basket and tossing up his right handed shot. Through four games against Seattle, Duncan has failed to prove he can dominate any of their big men over the course of a game. He’s shown he can draw fouls on them. He’s gotten a few angled bank shots on them, in addition to a few right handed hooks. But, he has not dominated anyone.
There is no variety in his game like there was in 2003 when he went head to head with Shaquille O’Neal. The dominance he showed in 1998 versus Karl Malone is also gone. The overall package displayed in the championship clinching game versus Kenyon Martin is missing several components.
I’m under the impression experience has made Tim Duncan worse. The craftiness with which he uses to draw fouls has turned into a liability. His agility and good hands have given him a false sense of confidence into underestimating the opposition. Injuries can scare him into playing different – even if he is no longer injured. Past playoff disasters refresh in his mind and are now making him wonder if this Seattle series will be like an old Lakers’ series.
Don’t fool yourself into thinking the Spurs hold Tim Duncan, the ace, in the 2005 playoffs. He can average 20 points through put backs, free throws, and a couple of bank shots, easily. The Spurs power forward is playing similar to his lackluster performances against the O’Neal anchored Lakers, where he could muster no efficient offense. Had Manu Ginobili not played the role of MVP against the Nuggets, the Spurs could have very conceivably found themselves in a dangerous game 7 duel.
As it stands now, the Spurs have enough to douse a feisty Sonics squad if they can regain their defensive focus and exact better contributions from the rest of the team. However, the road to the championship will require much more than that.
Tim Duncan needs to prepare differently than the other Spurs. Manu, Tony, Bruce, Nazr, etc. – they need to look in the mirror, and then at some game tape.
Tim needs to look at some photos and then at some game tape. But not tape of opponents, tape of himself. Vintage film of when he used to be better than good, of when he used to be great.
RobinsontoDuncan,
You have been jumped because of mentioning Chris Webber as comparable to Tim. Tim is still much more capable than Chris, but you are right in noticing his declining level of play. However, Duncan showed some flashes of his old self in Game 5.
P.S. If Duncan's ankle was "80%" before the playoffs started, it should be a lot closer to healed now, I think a lot of his injury is in his head now
Get a rope..
TD is not C-Webb.
I can see what R2D is saying, although I might not be as harsh. Duncan has begun to rely more and more on shooting and little hooks in the lane, and could probably get better shots in many cases with a little more footwork.
But I think this has more to do with a lack of explosiveness stemming from recent injury than a pattern over the last two years. I really haven't noticed it before these Playoffs. And frankly, while his bank shot has been a little off lately, that jumper from the top of the key almost always goes in, it seems.
49.1
That's Duncan's post season FG%. I remember a time when it was closer to 53.2
You guys have to see it, Duncan isn't dominating the way he is capable of and he wasn't in the regular season either, he hasn't been for a very long time.
and red, it's just R2D or RtD.
TD's level of play has dropped precipitously from MVP-level to 1st-Team NBA level. The Spurs will just have to work around it.
what I wanted to know was.. why doesnt he ever spin baseline when someone is on his back?... he used to have this quick turn baseline and finish it off with a dunk. Is it his ankle thats keep him from using that effective move? Yesterday I yelled at the screen atleast 4 times "spin baseline, fortson can handle you".
I'm talking right now too. Do YOU feel like Duncan and Webber are at the same level right now? If you say yes, feel free to delete your original post.
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