Manny to Dodgers...

[Tippecanoe]

oh wow. i just read the whole thread for the first time. and i have to clear up some misconceptions.

1) The Sox weren't going to win anything with Manny and the way he was behaving recently. He was becoming such a huge distraction that his track record was no longer good enough to keep him around.

2) Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen are not that good. I really like Moss and he's got potential to be a decent everyday OF, but just not with the Sox. He was the 5th OF, and with more than enough depth at OF in the minors (Van Every, Jeff Bailey) and Josh Red waiting in the wings, Moss was expendable. Hansen was a first round pick who never figured it out. This may change as he moves into new scenery, but in Boston, he wasnt panning out.

3) It's very possible that this move is not really about winning in 2008, but planning ahead for 2009. The Sox control Jason Bay not only for 2008, 2009, but also 2010, because he still won't be FA-eligible by then. Had the trade not been made, the Sox woulda had to add another LF with a big bat in the offseason (there was no way Theo was picking up those team options), or settle for a Crisp/Ellsbury/Drew outfield, and with the way Ellsbury and Crisp struggling these days, that would've spelled disaster. It's true that the Sox do lose out on draft picks, but in the MLB, even the first rounders rarely pan out.

[Brodels]

oh wow. i just read the whole thread for the first time. and i have to clear up some misconceptions.

1) The Sox weren't going to win anything with Manny and the way he was behaving recently. He was becoming such a huge distraction that his track record was no longer good enough to keep him around.

2) Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen are not that good. I really like Moss and he's got potential to be a decent everyday OF, but just not with the Sox. He was the 5th OF, and with more than enough depth at OF in the minors (Van Every, Jeff Bailey) and Josh Red waiting in the wings, Moss was expendable. Hansen was a first round pick who never figured it out. This may change as he moves into new scenery, but in Boston, he wasnt panning out.

3) It's very possible that this move is not really about winning in 2008, but planning ahead for 2009. The Sox control Jason Bay not only for 2008, 2009, but also 2010, because he still won't be FA-eligible by then. Had the trade not been made, the Sox woulda had to add another LF with a big bat in the offseason (there was no way Theo was picking up those team options), or settle for a Crisp/Ellsbury/Drew outfield, and with the way Ellsbury and Crisp struggling these days, that would've spelled disaster. It's true that the Sox do lose out on draft picks, but in the MLB, even the first rounders rarely pan out.

Good post. Moss and Hansen are nowhere near top prospects, and while they may do o.k. in Pittsburgh, they are really pretty fungible. FWIW, I believe Jason Bay will be a free agent after 2009, which means the Sox won't have him under their control after next season (unless he re-signs), but if they don't keep him, they will most certainly offer him arbitration, which would give them the picks they will lose out on with Manny. It will be a year later, but the picks will still have value.

I like Moss, but the Sox did what they had to do, and his path to the majors was blocked. May he do well in Pittsburgh.

[bostonguy]

dude, chill. the sox weren't gonna win all with manny. he was causing way too many distractions. with bay, they at least have a chance to repeat. im sorry he was your favorite player, but you gotta move on. dont go crazy and burn all your manny stuff. he'll be still be remembered as one of the greatest hitters to ever play for the sox.

Nah I wont burn it. I love Manny too much to ever do something like that. We still have quality bats led by Big Papi. It comes down to our pitching. Im moving on already. Just hope this team can have health going for them for the stretch run.

[T Park]

Amazing how the years before when they won with manny being the same way that he wasn't a clubhouse "cancer" this year all of a sudden he is.



Yeah when Bay chokes in October and Manny is hitting clutch after clutch hit for the Dodgers, go ahead and bump this.

[Whisky Dog]

I can't stand the Sox now. No longer are they the rogue band of misfits (Capt. Caveman and Manny leading the odd ball way), now they're basically Yankee-lite.

I miss the '04 Sox. That was a fun team.

Manny will crush with the Dodgers and Bay will be serviceable but not do much in the playoffs, nothing close to what Manny did.

[ducks]

Amazing how the years before when they won with manny being the same way that he wasn't a clubhouse "cancer" this year all of a sudden he is.



Yeah when Bay chokes in October and Manny is hitting clutch after clutch hit for the Dodgers, go ahead and bump this.

dodgers have to catch the dbacks
something they have not done yet
the d-backs have owned their division this year

[Tippecanoe]

Amazing how the years before when they won with manny being the same way that he wasn't a clubhouse "cancer" this year all of a sudden he is.



Yeah when Bay chokes in October and Manny is hitting clutch after clutch hit for the Dodgers, go ahead and bump this.

manny took it to a whole new level this year. he behaved similarly in 2006 as well, and theo worked his ass off to trade him, but couldnt get takers.

[Tippecanoe]

FWIW, I believe Jason Bay will be a free agent after 2009, which means the Sox won't have him under their control after next season (unless he re-signs), but if they don't keep him, they will most certainly offer him arbitration, which would give them the picks they will lose out on with Manny. It will be a year later, but the picks will still have value.

Oh my bad. I read this snippet on baseball prospectus that Bay won't have the 6 years of service time by the end of 2009. But I went to check the numbers myself, and that's dead wrong. He started this season with 4.080 years of service time, so you're right, he's FA eligible after next season.