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Dirk ain't soft. There are flaws and holes in his game, but being "soft" isn't one of them. Get a clue.
What? Are you stupid or something? how does that have anything to do with Dirk being what you call "soft"? please explain.
Dirk ain't soft. There are flaws and holes in his game, but being "soft" isn't one of them. Get a clue.
Are you speaking about Dirk's flaccid penis? If so, then yes, he is soft.
My summary of this thread so far...
Ill Cosby: " , NBA Players and America... go Juan Carlos"
stretch: " the man"
Kill Bill Pana: "US evil an ees in stupid just like all American can see Kill Bill Pana not a liar I love European basketball team they are all really good Saddam no have weapons of mass destruction Bush is a liar but everyone on message board call Kill Bill Pana a liar. I no a liar because Lebron gonna play in Europe too with Josh Childress all you on message board can suck my like George Bush and Tony Blair."
you forgot about his V-Span sucking.
That's a good point. Rockets is stooopid.
Why do sheepish patriots translate any type of critical dialogue about this country or anyone representing this country as Anti-American?
Forgive my word asscoiation; to me 'patriotism' is blind support of your country, which alot of white people seem to have. This country has an evil past, and no one wants to acknowledge it. Look at 9-11. During WWII we dropped two atomic bombs and killed thousands of innocent people in the name of democracy (America is not really ran by a true democracy...think about it...do you really get to choose who's president or do you pick out of a group given to us...?), but when people who have their known rights attack us, now everyone that looks like them, in this country, are all evil now.
Or let's take to slavery. I'll be the first one to admit that every black person currently living in the USA are decendents of enslaved people, some may have came to this country later. Every white person does'nt have ancestors who were slave owners. Cool. But too many white people act like no one should pay for 400 years of free labor and oppression. Business wise if your grandfather worked at a company for 40 years, didn't get paid right, then died, wouldn't you sue for his paid even though he's dead now..? And your a fool if you think the past doesn't affect the future..but that's another discussion...
One reason I'm not on the 'Back To Africa' bandwagon is because we build this damn country and I'd be spittin on the graves of Fred Hampton, Dr. Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Malcom X, and countless other people who fought so we could be treated equally not to leave and run away...I'm stayin'...
But as a Black American, I'm proud to be just that...
So all along, you actually wanted the NBA players not to play to boycott America and its evil past?
Not sheepish. Not a blind patriot. Not white. Not translating anything you said. In fact, that's exactly what you did say. You posted a picture of Juan Carlos and said you lost respect for a certain number of NBA players and said America is evil.
And your arguments are full of non-sequitors: "this country has an evil past. Look at 9-11."
Ok, I'm looking at 9-11 and I see thousands of innocent people that died when two massive skyscrapers collapsed because "blind patriots" of another country flew two jets into them. That means America is evil? Or are you purporting that the U.S. Government planted bombs in the Twin Towers because the country is evil? It's just one big conspiracy. Then you proceed to launch into a commentary about World War II... I guess there's a link because the "Manhattan Project" developed the atomic bomb and Manhattan is where the World Trade Center collapsed. Coincidence????? Not at all because the American government is diabolical and evil and Harry Truman planned 9-11 back in 1945, obviously.
Another quote: "But too many white people act like no one should pay for 400 years of free labor and oppression." What white people do you hang out with? Who are you talking about? President Bush? All the people in the Twin Towers when they collapsed? Congressmen? That crazy old white guy down the street from you? I need some concrete support for this argument because most of the white people I know that would say such things don't have jobs and therefore, can't pay for anything in the first place.
Quote 3: "Business wise if your grandfather worked at a company for 40 years, didn't get paid right, then died, wouldn't you sue for his paid even though he's dead now..?" It's your right as a free American to sue. Many people in other countries would not have such a right.
Quote 4: "But as a Black American, I'm proud to be just that..." This is probably the quote I don't understand the most. Do you not realize that is a very patriotic statement? You're sitting here and telling us in your initial post that you're not caring about Olypmic basketball because you don't like America. Then you're saying that all "patriots" are blind homers and you don't like those kind of people. But then you close your post by stating that you're proud of the nation that your ancestors helped build and you're not going anywhere. That's the true definition of "patriotism"!!! That's why you should be standing up and cheering for guys like LeBron, D-Wade, Chris Paul, Kobe, etc. because they're manifestations of the freedom in America. The Chinese are banning black people from bars!!! You should be proud that such racial injustice is no longer allowed in America - the country your ancestors helped build.
But you know who else's ancestors helped build this country? All the men who are representing the United States basketball team at the Olympics this year. For the same reason that you do not have to and do not want to leave this country, those men do not have to make a public, verbal stand against the Chinese government. The fact that they are there, competing and representing their country is already victory enough. And if they are standing up on the podium receiving gold medals across their necks for all of the world and China to see, then you should smile with pride and cheer for them because they successfully represented the country that your ancestors and my ancestors and all our ancestors (except SpursDynasty) helped build.
Some of your misunderstanding I due to my poor wording (too much frustration when I'm serious and some cats are jokin). That's why I have a few non-sequitors. My fault entirely.
First off I was defining what a "patriot" is commonly demonstrated as. Most of the people who claim to be "patriotic" are straight sleep when it comes to this country and it's dealings. And people who critisize commonly are called un-"patriotic". Yes I said there is an evil past and expressed I'm a proud Black American, but I never said I hate the country. Like I said, I should be able to be proud and be able to point out the evils at the same time...that's just common sense to me.
I brought up 9-11 just to illustrate the fact an American life is no more important than an Oriental life or an Arabian life. Those are terrible events. And I rather not get into my believes on the shady facts surrounding the Twin Tower and Pentagon attacks right now (too lengthy and off subject).
Well let's also remember we live two different lives, so as I can respect your experience, you should be able respect mine. That's what I've heard and seen. I can't give you names and transcripts, not to joke, but I hope you know what I mean.
I could bring up a few do entaries where white people were interviewed and give the 'It was a long time ago' excuse.
I know that. And that fact is besides the point, I'm talkin' about America. I, again, was trying to illustrate a point. Regardless of how long ago it was, the fruits of their fruits of their(Africans who were enslaved) labor are a very present reality. There are companies who started off in the 1800's that are Fortune 500 because of that foundation of having free labor from slaves gave them the ability to maximize profit.
- I don't hate America
- I don't hate being here
- I don't want the NBA players too stop playing
My only problem is that, you talk about all these great rights and privileges we have, shouldn't we exercise them? Then why not speak for people who would otherwise be killed for raising awareness. I don't really want them to protest (I'll admit that was too strong of a world), but bring awareness. Nike isn't gonna drop Lebron's and Kobe's contracts if they (let's say) carry the Sudanese flag in support of the people who are goin' through genocide or the Tibetan flag for support. Not even big flags, maybe joints like this size...
I'm a simple man and I was just lookin' for something simple and small
Steve Nash revealed this to you?
He mentioned it once, yes.Steve Nash revealed this to you?
Simple and small is fine. You still have some comments in there that would be better supported by facts.Some of your misunderstanding I due to my poor wording (too much frustration when I'm serious and some cats are jokin). That's why I have a few non-sequitors. My fault entirely.
First off I was defining what a "patriot" is commonly demonstrated as. Most of the people who claim to be "patriotic" are straight sleep when it comes to this country and it's dealings. And people who critisize commonly are called un-"patriotic". Yes I said there is an evil past and expressed I'm a proud Black American, but I never said I hate the country. Like I said, I should be able to be proud and be able to point out the evils at the same time...that's just common sense to me.
I brought up 9-11 just to illustrate the fact an American life is no more important than an Oriental life or an Arabian life. Those are terrible events. And I rather not get into my believes on the shady facts surrounding the Twin Tower and Pentagon attacks right now (too lengthy and off subject).
Well let's also remember we live two different lives, so as I can respect your experience, you should be able respect mine. That's what I've heard and seen. I can't give you names and transcripts, not to joke, but I hope you know what I mean.
I could bring up a few do entaries where white people were interviewed and give the 'It was a long time ago' excuse.
I know that. And that fact is besides the point, I'm talkin' about America. I, again, was trying to illustrate a point. Regardless of how long ago it was, the fruits of their fruits of their(Africans who were enslaved) labor are a very present reality. There are companies who started off in the 1800's that are Fortune 500 because of that foundation of having free labor from slaves gave them the ability to maximize profit.
- I don't hate America
- I don't hate being here
- I don't want the NBA players too stop playing
My only problem is that, you talk about all these great rights and privileges we have, shouldn't we exercise them? Then why not speak for people who would otherwise be killed for raising awareness. I don't really want them to protest (I'll admit that was too strong of a world), but bring awareness. Nike isn't gonna drop Lebron's and Kobe's contracts if they (let's say) carry the Sudanese flag in support of the people who are goin' through genocide or the Tibetan flag for support. Not even big flags, maybe joints like this size...
I'm a simple man and I was just lookin' for something simple and small
This thread is pathetic. Private Cosby, you me sick to my ing stomach! I should PT you until you ing die! I'll PT you until your asshole is sucking buttermilk!!!
BEIJING – The Chinese government was so frightened that Joey Cheek, the former Olympic medalist turned human rights advocate, would come to the Beijing Games and mention the murder of 400,000 Sudanese that it decided to revoke his visa.
They must be petrified then of Kobe Bryant and LeBron James, the two global sporting icons who are immensely popular in this basketball-mad country and are simply too big to silence.
Should either display the conviction they’ve flashed in the past in publicly denouncing the genocide in Darfur, then the Chinese could be humiliated by the attention on their decision to buy oil from, and provide arms to, the murderous Sudanese government.
Will they, though?
Or will the enormity of it all, the general chilling of speech at these bizarre games or the push by USA Basketball for Kobe and LeBron to focus first on winning gold, allow the moment to pass?
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The situation is so tense in totalitarian Beijing that Cheek, who won two medals as a speed skater at the Turin Games and then donated his prize money, time and boundless energy to the children of Darfur, is stuck back in Washington D.C. No less than President Bush is being lobbied to fight for the return of his visitation visa.
“What I see is a major push globally by the Chinese to suppress speech by any athletes anywhere,” Cheek said by phone Thursday. “Revoking my visa probably stands as an example to anyone in China who wants to speak about anything.”
James and Bryant probably don’t fear the Chinese. Bryant said he didn’t even know who Cheek was, let alone what happened.
They have been among the most outspoken of the major American athletes on the subject and are capable of generating a level of worldwide (and in-China) attention like few others.
Bryant cut a public service announcement a year ago on Darfur, demanding people to rise up and help (“Together we have the power to change the world”). James, in an interview with ESPN, echoed the sentiments (“We’re talking about lives lost”) and promised a bigger statement here in Beijing.
On Thursday, however, both shied away from bold pronouncements.
“No, not really,” Bryant said when asked if he had anything to say about Darfur.
“Basic human rights should always be protected,” James said before adding, “One thing you can’t do is confuse sports and politics.”
“I think the political guys are going to do what they need to do, that’s their job,” he added. “We are here to concentrate on a gold medal. Sports and politics just don’t match.”
Whether they continue that approach remains to be seen. Perhaps they are planning something big later in the Olympics. Perhaps they’ve decided to step back.
Or perhaps they’ll come to the realization of the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity they have here and will grow emboldened.
“For certain, when the Olympics are over, their opinions won’t carry so much weight,” USA Basketball managing director Jerry Colangelo said. “Right now, it is a hot button.”
But will Kobe or LeBron push it?
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It’s not fair to demand that they do. If they want, Bryant and James can embrace a potential hero’s role. You can’t demand a person to have that in him, though.
Cheek, who makes this look almost easy, is the first to say each person’s commitment to a cause is their own personal choice. Just two years ago, he was advocating merely for the children of Darfur to play sports and improve the basics of their life in refugee camps. His demands for stronger action grew over time.
“At some point I said, ‘As great as it is that we have these programs for kids to play, you know what would be really great is if their government stopped gunning them down,’ ” he said.
So he makes no demands on athletes, just on China and the International Olympic Committee to allow anyone to speak as they wish.
“Let me not say what anyone else should do, because that is not my place,” Cheek said. “I think for everyone their first goal is to compete, as well it should. But freedom of speech is implicit in the Olympic charter.”
At the very least, he’s heartened that the U.S. Olympic team, in an obvious statement, selected a former Sudanese refugee, runner Lopez Lomong, now a naturalized citizen, to carry the American flag at Friday’s Opening Ceremony.
James previously promised on ESPN that his decision would not be affected by any possible pressure from his two main employers – the NBA and Nike – both of whom see China as fertile ground for business.
“People should understand that human rights and people’s lives are in jeopardy,” James said in May. “We’re not talking about contracts here. We’re not talking about money.”
It was then that he promised to say something big in Beijing. One day in, he didn’t. Has anything changed?
“No,” he said. “Nothing. It’s the same statement I’ve made.”
Bryant echoed the sentiment and claimed that this may not be the best time.
“Nothing’s changed. It’s just time to play basketball,” he said. “I’m not a government official or politician. I’ll let them do that.”
You weren’t a politician before and you spoke out, he was reminded.
“That’s different than coming out here and speaking about it on a daily basis,” Bryant said. “If the politicians want to get paid to shoot jump shots, then they can come and do that.”
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Colangelo and U.S. head coach Mike Krzyzewski have been adamant that they have told no one what or what not to say.
“What we said was, ‘We don’t muzzle anyone. If you, in your heart, think you need to say something, that is entirely up to you,’ ” Colangelo said.
For Krzyzewski, however, the focus is basketball. He wants nothing to affect the team. Not politics, not anything. His preference is obvious.
“I don’t think there is a balance right now,” Krzyzewski said. “If you’re a compe or … you have to be single-minded in what you’re doing. It’s not about seeing the city or making political comments, although they can say whatever they want.”
Krzyzewski wasn’t convinced they should even be put in the position.
“Why would you ask them? They are not the experts,” he said.
Because they spoke out about it before. And no one is asking a player who hasn’t previously denounced the situation.
“Well, I’ve talked about the Duke team before,” Krzyzewski said. “I am talking about USA Basketball right now. It’s not about avoiding an issue; it’s about concentrating on one. I would hope people would be respectful of that.”
Colangelo points to the importance of the team to represent the United States with “class and dignity” and isn’t certain that making speeches about major international policy is even the most effective course of action.
“Let me ask you this, what carries more weight?” he said. “One of them making a comment about what’s happening in Tibet or Darfur or two nights ago in Shanghai when our players helped raise $430,000 for the earthquake relief program where 70,000 Chinese died? I think that’s a little bit more important.”
Can’t a player do both?
“Yes. A person may choose to do that,” Colangelo said. “If they chose to do that, I don’t have any issue with that.”
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No doubt the Chinese government is waiting to find out if Bryant, James or any other high-profile athlete makes that choice.
The torch hasn’t even been lit and this has already been an Olympics overwhelmed by embarrassing questions about government crackdowns, the curbing of free speech or, most comically, claims by the government and its pawns at the IOC that the thick smog blocking the sun over Beijing is really just innocent “mist.”
The Chinese people have been warm and welcoming, unfailingly polite and positive. Their government has been the opposite, almost incapable of dealing with an outside world they can’t control.
“Revoking my visa is just a small incident in a systematic effort anywhere that China has the authority over a country or an athlete to try to shut people up,” Cheek said.
“Right now, when we are celebrating this whole peaceful event, the reality is the whole world is not together. There is this massive conflict and a massive amount of people suffering, and the host country is in position to do something about it. Not only are they not doing anything about it (but also) they are keeping the people perpetrating these crimes in power or at least keeping their pockets full.
“What’s Olympic about that?”
Nothing, of course. And perhaps no one is in better position to point it out than Kobe or LeBron. If they so choose.
this article above states and I'm tryin' to get across...
- Were not puttin' Kobe and Lebron in a position that they didn't put themselves into. Both spoke on the issue while in the states, but renigged when they got to Beijeng...
I really recommend you read the article...
- The Olympics is a perfect time to bring an issue to the forfront, plus guys like Kobe and Lebron have ALOT of power..Them two have nothing to lose if you ask me...I'm a big NBA fan and I should know that punishing these two specifically would be cuttin' your nose to spite your face...They are argueable the two biggest active NBA players in the world...You really think Nike would drop them...? No excuses and a fine ain't nothing..Lebron sign a $100 million contract his rookie year, I know he can afford a fine by now...
It's Deron, not Daren. Get it right dip . I've lost respect for you after this idiotic post of yours. Oh wait...just like this post, who gives a if I don't have respect for you or if you don't respect the players?
Why don't you go back to your basement and worship that pathetic point guard of yours that can't run any form of organized offensive basketball.
That's what separates him and all these other "big name" athletes from Muhammad Ali. That's why they'll never be recognized for their bravery and will be forgotten in the history books.
I'm suprised by the number of people in here who think speaking up to save human lives is somehow the wrong thing to do. I think Ill brought up 9-11 to illustrate how full of Americans can be. 3,000 American lives lost: Let's Nuke them. 300,000 lives lost in Darfur: Why should athletes speak out? It's not their place.That at ude shows an embarrassing level of insensitivity. When you put it in those terms we do seem kind of ignorant. Personally I think if you are in the public eye, and you can help save lives by bringing attention to a crisis, why wouldn't you?
I know that the USA has gone after China on human rights but China turned around and put a shot across our bow 5 months ago. They lambasted the USA's human rights record. I read this and I gotta say, they gotta point.
"We suggest the U.S. government to stop depicting itself as a human rights watchdog and focus more on its own human rights problems," Qin said.
He said China was willing to have dialogue on human rights with the U.S. and other countries.
The -for-tat charges come less than five months before Beijing hosts the Olympic Games, which have already put the spotlight on China's human rights record.
The reports also come as the two countries' economies become increasingly entwined and amid increased political cooperation between the U.S. and China on international problems, including efforts to strip North Korea of its nuclear program.
Beijing's report, gathered from a variety of international news sources, lambastes an increase in violent crime in the U.S., saying it poses a serious threat to the lives, liberty and personal security of the American people.
The report concluded the U.S. human rights records is "best described as tattered and shocking."
It cited an FBI report on crime statistics in the U.S. released last year that showed violent crime had increased by 1.9% from 2005 to 2006, with 1.41 million cases reported nationwide.
The report also cited news articles that said 30,000 people die in the U.S. from gunshot wounds every year and gun killings have climbed 13% since 2002.
It noted the United States has the largest prison system in the world, with the highest inmates-to-population ratio. The report cited police brutality and other instances where law enforcement officials violated civil rights.
China's report also lambasted the U.S. for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"The invasion of Iraq by U.S. troops has produced the biggest human rights tragedy and the greatest humanitarian disaster in modern world," the report said.
It also said U.S. troops had killed innocent civilians in the anti-terrorism war in Afghanistan.
We don't try to rehabilitate criminals, we just put em in prison to rot and then the tax payers just have to keep paying money to keep them there. It's interesting to note that the majority of US prison inmates are also young black males.
I want to apologize to any of the soft ass posters I've offended and also the guys who actually came at me with an actual argument not a poor attempt at fly by comedy. I used a few strong words, but I meant everything I said....I'm just man enough to admit I worded some things too strongly.
Thank you
How many non-politicians have spoken out on 9-11?
....I've been flip floppin' for the last month on how I felt about the Olympics.
I live in America, but I'm not a biggest fan of this country. Don't give me the 'would you live anywhere else in the world' BS, because that's relevant, beacause I could on and on how my people earned the things they have in this stolen land. So I'm not patriotic, but I would have loved to see Chris Paul buss some ass around the world (I saw that one move he did). Then I read an article on how Stern was cool with the players takin' a stand (it was on here) and even soundin' like he was encouraging it, but the players backed down.
Now I just watched this vid and I'm sure I don't give a damn about the Olympic and I'll be damned if I watch...
http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/...goryId=2459788
First it sounded like Lebron wasn't the coon I thought he was (remember the Vanity Fair cover). Talked a good game, but like ESPN always does, they got him caught up and flip floppin' now sayin' that the Olympics are no place for politics or 'were just here to play basketball'
I've lost respect for:
- Carmelo (already had little)
- Lebron
- Dwanye Wade
- Daren Williams
I would love to see what the other players have to say
What, you'll do remeber this?
SMH @ these overpayed (some underperforming) athletes...no back bone GWhatever.
It's disgusting how many Americans now hate their own country.
I hope the USA wins gold just because of people like you and the Americans on this forum rooting for Argentina because of Manu.
Or the self righteous people who want the U.S. to lose because they're afraid LeBron hurt the worlds feelings by garunteeing they would win the gold.
I could care less what the world thinks about us. They will hate this country no matter what we do.
The USA will always be number one in the world**As long as they stand with Israel.
BTW, it's Deron Williams, not Daren Williams.
Not as many as you would think. Most people in Hollywood have purported the rumor that the United States government executed 9-11 and yet, the vast majority of them have spoken out on the ills in Darfur. Everyone in America knows about the situation in Darfur and George Clooney has made it is his personal crusade to correct the human rights violations there. The only athlete who really spoke out was Pat Tillman and he backed up his words with his life.
Just because we don't think the Olympics are the proper forum for athletes to discuss China's human rights violations doesn't mean we're on some kind of "USA!" high horse. I mean, you and the Franchise will be the first ones to say that we as a country don't have the right to speak out because of all our prior wrongdoings. We definitely wouldn't want to be hypocritical here...
I'm just simply saying it's a weak argument to say you lost respect for all these athletes, especially when you don't include your boy CP3 on the list. If you did, then we could probably take you more seriously. And my team's PG has spoken out a lot on the war the human rights violations in other countries. He's also backed up his word with his wallet.
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