From Jordan Breen, sherdog
After a 15-minute emasculation of Heath Herring (Pictures), even in the face of other notable Saturday night happenings, I was fully aware Brock Lesnar (Pictures) was going to dominate my inbox come Sunday morning. However, I expected most of the discussion to be centered on his obvious potential as a heavyweight, with requests for me to impersonate Joe Silva by forecasting Lesnar's future fighting engagements.
Instead, I have been swarmed with and puzzled by dozens and dozens of choleric and venomous messages from incensed fans who have apparently suffered damaged psyches at the hands of Brock Lesnar's in-cage antics.
That's right: Lesnar's curb-stomping of Herring is no longer the issue. What's really important, what's really stuck in the craw of fans, is Brock Lesnar laughing at Herring while assaulting him, and an imaginary bull roping of the Texan following the fight.
This is seriously an issue?
We're embroiled in an unfortunate era of professional athletics where major sports leagues have become comically stringent toward the perceived "excesses" of celebration. The NFL has been tabbed "the No Fun League,” has had to ban the use of "props,” and regularly hands out "excessive celebration" penalties. In the NBA, you can wag your finger to the crowd, but do it in the direction of an opposing player, and you're facing a fine, never mind the resulting insanity if you make a throat slash, or throw up a Roc-a-Fella dynasty diamond with your fingers. Major League Baseball? Fist pump too hard in the wrong inning after a strikeout, and feel the wrath of millions of crusty octogenarians who still keep score in their pocketbooks at the ball park.
Your most hardened sports fans may see contemporary celebrations as a tad on the ridiculous side, but can still acknowledge that even the most inane dance and pantomime is nothing to be vexed by. In fact, it probably adds a little something to the game by introducing a measure of villainy. If sports fans are to lament this hyper-individualistic era of athletics, shouldn't we have individual antagonists?
However, if this is the overwhelming sentiment from general sports fans, why are so many MMA fans angered by Brock Lesnar's Saturday night shenanigans?
"Does he know he's in a real sport now?" one rankled emailer wrote me. "This is not how MMA fighters in the biggest organization in the world act. He should have looked at the guy in the main event, and taken notes."
My only question: Which guy in the main event? The guy who breakdances and back-flips after victory, or the guy who mean-mugs at the camera, snarling and sneering?
You can't throw up a post-fight fist pump without punching another elite level MMA fighter with a post-fight trademark. Chuck Liddell (Pictures) screams. Takanori Gomi (Pictures) surfs on the turnbuckle, and Eddie Alvarez (Pictures) back-flips off of it. Thiago Silva (Pictures) and Josh Barnett (Pictures) have the market cornered on throat slashing. Yushin Okami (Pictures) shows off his swordsmanship. Gabriel Gonzaga (Pictures) assails cameramen. This truncated list doesn't even account for those who are prone to spontaneous post-fight celebration like BJ Penn, who is liable to lick his opponent's blood or dead-sprint to the locker room after a W, or Anderson Silva (Pictures), who has dressed up in full Moonwalker garb and given us rhythm guitar lessons after kayos. All of these actions are just as much overtures to the soul of pro-wrestling as those of Lesnar, who is still chided for his WWE wrasslin' tenure.
So, either we have a predictable double-standard at work, or there's some other overlooked aspect.
After responding to another up-in-arms emailer by pointing out that MMA is rife and rich with celebratory silliness, I got a response that perhaps gets us to the kernel of the matter.
"Fighters like BJ and Anderson are free to do whatever they want after they win because they earned it," I was told. "Lesnar has two wins in MMA. He isn't the UFC champion. He just makes an unsportsmanlike ass out of himself. Laughing the way he did during the fight was classless."
Never mind the absurd notion that the ability to celebrate athletic triumph is reserved for top-10 fighters. Am I really to believe that four months and change removed from Mike Kyle (Pictures) getting a televised fight on one of the biggest fight cards of the year, and with Gilbert Yvel (Pictures) just having signed with Dream, that Brock Lesnar's lukewarm cowboy impression are really indicative of unsportsmanlike conduct in MMA?
If Brock Lesnar wants to laugh at his opponents during a fight as he did to Herring, so be it. If his opponents don't want to be mocked in the middle of a match, they ought to learn how to do more than turtle perpetually.
Some cranky old football purists lament the state of the game, but laud more contemporary figures like Barry Sanders and LaDainian Tomlinson because when they score touchdowns, they simply hand the ball to the referee.
"Act like you've been there before," they all pseudo-wistfully say. But Brock Lesnar didn't dive the pile from the two yard line. In his third pro MMA fight, he beat a perennially solid albeit unspectacular heavyweight, in the biggest MMA organization in the world, in front of a partisan crowd on a major pay-per-view. Let the man get his bull rope on. Heath Herring fights in a cage for a living -- I think he can handle an imaginary lasso.
Although traditional martial arts have become scorned and derided in many MMA contexts, there still exists an almost cartoonish, Ken Shamrock (Pictures)-esque obsession with the idea of "respect" in MMA, and that those who don't abide are in violation of some mystical modern samurai code. The fact of the matter is that the sport we watch and enjoy isn't some overwrought honorific combative ritual. It's a prizefight, with grown-ass men trying to prove who the alpha male is. While we all certainly want to see fighters fight clean, hard, and fair, I fail to recognize why some fans are keen to demonize showboating more so than actual in-fight lawlessness.
If you want a testament to the power and place that pro-wrestling gimmickry and showboating have in this sport, look no further than o Ortiz (Pictures). His maybe, maybe-not signing with Affliction was the biggest story of last week in the MMA world, despite the looming UFC 87 card. And what for? Ortiz hasn't beaten an elite-level opponent in years. In fact, his period of dominance in the sport is hard to remember in terms of actual action. Apart from slamming Evan Tanner (Pictures) through the floor, and his commercially successful but compe ively handicapped smashing of Ken Shamrock, what do you remember about o Ortiz's UFC le reign, except for the Belfort fight being cancelled 60 times and him not fighting Chuck Liddell (Pictures)? You remember the six-shooter pistols. You remember flipping the double birds. You remember the Gravedigger. And for some reason, years later, he's still worth millions when he fights, and that includes your hard-earned dollars.
I'm not long for this world of "Great fight, bro,” and shared embraces for any remotely compe ive fight. While I could do without a sport full of Ricardo Mayorgas, I'm all for some good old-fashioned pro-wrestling heel tactics. American MMA needs to step up its game anyhow: Ricardo Arona (Pictures) doesn't have a major deal, Josh Koscheck (Pictures) isn't singing "17-1", and Tim Sylvia (Pictures) still just wants to be loved. Since Yoshihiro Akiyama (Pictures) is well-settled (and well-compensated) as Japan's super-villain, somebody needs to angrily galvanize the MMA public.
If Lesnar's laugh-and-lasso annoyed, offended or even outraged you: good. But if you think for a minute that there's "no place" for this pro-wrestling gimmickry in MMA, Dana White will chap your thin hide all the way to bank. And thank God, because I've had all the clichéd "respect" I can handle.
(PS: Enjoy Gilbert Yvel's Dream debut.)
LOL, that is funny. Well GSP usually only does that when he finishes a fight, that was such a war with Fitch they just embraced and we all know GSP is a class act. I had no major problem at all with what Brock did. He mocked roping him in, and laughed at him once, big deal. Dana White said that "Herring talking a lot of about Brock and that he did not even understand why he had to fight him" Bottom line, he won the fight, he looked impressive, the crowd went nuts, he's for real, move on haters.
GSP was 100% all class. Fitch is a warrior just for staying in the fight. Lesnar is a y ass hole who has done nothing yet in his career so far. He should take an example from St.Pierre. Kongo and Emerson had good KOs. But ive never liked Emerson and never will. Florian is just straight up gangsta. what a badass fight with Huerta. MacDonald-Maia was fotn IMO. great night of fights. cant wait till BJ vs GSP!
Press Conference was funny...
Jon do you think you hurt him at all?
Fitch: God I hope.
(laughs)
Fitch: I sure was trying to
I dunno man...beating Herring is nothing to dismiss.
And having someone with talent that makes so many hate him is great for the sport...even as classless as that. I think Breen's article does a wonderful job addressing this.
Right on Leonard.
I was arguing with a friend of mine before the fight. He didn't think Maia would be able to get it to the ground because he's too one dimensional. My opinion is that Maia is the now of grappling/bjj and is in his prime as a compe or. He's arguably as good as anybody can get at grappling/bjj. When guys are that good, they know how to get it to the ground.
And grappling/bjj has evolved so much in mma. It's not just the subs guys have to watch out for. If you get an adcc champ like Maia mounting you, you might just get your face smashed like MacDonald did.
Seeing his UFC All Access show he does not come off as a y asshole to me. He seemed like a down to earth, hard-working guy. He is however an emotional guy and that was a very emotional fight for him. First big win in the UFC against a very tough opponent, fighting in his backyard. The roping Herring motion he did, i thought was funny and not a big deal at all. He should not have laughed at him. But as the article states, everyone does these in-ring antics and Brock knows how to sell fights. It's all part of the game.
I also think BJ is biting off more than he can chew with wanting this Re-Match with GSP. He is a great fighter but he is not a natural 170 pounder. GSP is so much better now than he was in that first fight. His wrestling is off the charts and he got 4 takedowns total in RDS 2 and 3 in his first fight with BJ. He had a bad first RD but the main damage he took in that RD was BJ hitting him with his thumb-nail causing a cut under his eye. GSP landed jabs, and many leg kicks in all 3 RDS of that fight. His Stand up is better now and his wrestling is all world. BJ has better conditioning now, but how will that translate to 170 pds?? GSP is a naturally bigger guy, more suited to that weight class. I think it will be a good fight, but in a 5rd le fight, i think GSP is going to wear BJ out. Honestly what has BJ done at 170 to really deserve this shot?? This is just a fans fight, BJ didn't earn the shot.
...
Props: Matt-Hughes.com
Quoteworthy:
Georges didn’t look as big as he has before and he seemed like he had gotten tired from the first round. Fitch had the game plan of countering Georges and you just can’t do that. You can’t counter a quicker fighter. To be honest, halfway in the third round I got up and walked out of the arena and went to my hotel. The fight wasn’t the most exciting and I wanted to get out of there before everyone else was getting up to leave.
Former UFC welterweight champion Matt Hughes shares his thoughts on the main event from UFC 87 “Seek and Destroy” on August 9. The Hillsboro, Ill., native may have been recalling the post-fight remarks made by Georges St. Pierre after Hughes defeated BJ Penn at UFC 63, or he may have just been ‘extremely bored’ as he admits to getting at live events.
Jason MacDonald knows what everybody else was already saying…
http://mmamania.com/2008/08/12/ufc-q...-feels-stupid/
Well you are realy high on UFC like it is the only organization with fighters. Like they have the best fighters in the world (which prob is true) and other fighters have no quality ... nevermind
But what I want to say is you talking like Lesnar is top fighter in the world. And how great that fight was. The fight was good. But Brock didn't knew what he wanted to do on the ground. He is boring and ... why the showoff?
Too soon to tell IMO where he belongs in HW div.
As for UFC and promotion. Dana must be high on Jardine - he gives him good opponents. jardine on every fight saying that he do not belive he in underdog in "that' fight. But then he losses against Houston Alexander and Wandy in a devastated fashion hmm
As for Alexander - he demolished Jardine and Sacara the he loses two matches and we do not know if he will stay in UFC (he will be in next fight night I think).
Lesnar is not convincing me and I hate the guy from the get go.
More like "extremely smashed". Fox Sports had a clip of Hughes predicting the win right before the fight and he was, as he usually is at the live events, three sheets to the wind. Very red-faced and slurring some pretty simple words
I watch every single piece of MMA that is shown on camera and have for a long time. Yeah I am really high on the UFC and so should every MMA fan. They give us a constant stream of fights with incredible cards.
For God's sake…on a thread just yesterday I am praising MFC which is a f*cking regional show in Canada…you're way off base here and I think your comment sucks.
Every other org has awesome fighters as well and I have never trashed a org based on its quality of fighters, not once. Ever. If I have been critical of anything its their business moves and considering how many of them are failing I feel justified. I have no problem with Kimbo, I just have a problem with him being showcased as the face of MMA like Shaw was doing.
You're getting onto me because I am amazed at him beating a world class fighter?
I'm not saying he is the best in the world nor have I even hinted at it. I made it pretty clear I think he has a few more years ahead of him.
Last edited by Evan; 08-12-2008 at 09:43 AM.
I can't stand Hughes.
In short
I went too far
Did not wanted to piss you off or offend you.
And I was more general (thinking bout american MMA fans) talking to you.
And what's worse - that I'm decreassing in English. So I have got no flow in writing what causes me to use simple words and that can lead to misunderstanding sometimes
Will you please just fight Matt Serra already and retire you Jag-Off
Leave the WW division to GSP and the contenders and stop talking out of your ass Matt
No worries.In short
I went too far
Did not wanted to piss you off or offend you.
And I was more general (thinking bout american MMA fans) talking to you.
And what's worse - that I'm decreassing in English. So I have got no flow in writing what causes me to use simple words and that can lead to misunderstanding sometimes
I definitely favor UFC without question but I never miss a small show and appreciate them all to a degree.
Will you please just fight Matt Serra already and retire you Jag-Off
Leave the WW division to GSP and the contenders and stop talking out of your ass Matt
I would love to see him face Serra and you may get your wish as those guys are so broken down they may only have 1 big one left in them.
Video of BJ Penn at UFC 87, with Rampage, Hughes, etc. I didn’t notice he was carrying a video camera when he got in the ring with GSP.
http://www.bjpenn.com/video/video/sh...Video%3A204896
^^^^
BJ is letting himself go in-between fights again.
Here is a prelim in Jon Jones and Andre Gusmao...I know its not the best in the world, but real nice quality, and if you have some spare time you should check it out. Jon Jones has trained in MMA for 9 months. He is 21 years old. He is a great wrestler, and coming into this fight was 6-0 with 5 KOs and 1 sub. I could really see him being a force in this division before too long.
http://www.mma-core.com/videos/_Jon_...001039&tid=100
I don't get why he does that.
He's always lacked great Discipline
did brocks antics remind anyone of o? haha
Yup!!!!
IMO, while classes and childish...
its good for the sport.
While I loath o I dearly wish he would get it back together and become an elite fighter again.
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