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Funny how you lost your broken English.
I do agree with you about V-Span though. Especially the part about Van Gundy, he was horrible for Houston, simply a HORRIBLE coach...the most overated coach in the NBA.
DD
He never said those things dumbass. It was radio people and Van Gundy.
Have fun with your criminal alcoholic Alston as point guard of team trying to win champions.
Funny how you lost your broken English.
I do agree with you about V-Span though. Especially the part about Van Gundy, he was horrible for Houston, simply a HORRIBLE coach...the most overated coach in the NBA.
DD
Condescend much, Coach Wooden? Ok, I grant you that Spanoulis *could* have emerged and that players have struggled in the transition to the NBA, but Spanoulis has some things working against him the NBA. First, his lateral quickness is below average for a point guard. That is a fact based on watching his performance in the NBA. It's not just me hating on him randomly. He got beat continually and had difficulty getting to the basket like he does in international basketball. Second, the lanes in the NBA don't allow for as much penetration compared to the the FIBA set up. Third, he is a poor outside shooter. Look it up. The fact that he can't get as much separation in the NBA only hurts his shooting percentages in that league. Maybe he gets better, but I don't see any evidence that he would be able to get to the basket enough to be an efficient point guard. These issues are compounded by the fact that Spanoulis turned the ball over a lot and needs to dominate the ball in order to be successful. On a Greek team this may fly, but why would the Rockets take the ball out of McGrady's hands to let Spanoulis operate? Maybe he could have found an NBA team that had a better situation for him, but that team wouldn't have been very good. Van Gundy did not single him out any more than any other players. If you perform poorly, don't work in practice and have a crappy at ude, you will sit on the bench. I don't see how he would have fit in Adelman's system, either.
The anger that Rockets fans (except for DaDakota) have towards Spanoulis is justified, but there are real flaws to his games outside of quitting and whining. Maybe Spanoulis could do better in the NBA if he worked hard, tried to fit in and developed his game, but you can't seperate his character from his game. There are a whole lot of maybes in this conversation. Like the playground legends all over the States, Spanoulis just didn't have the mental makeup to make it in the NBA.
How many losing seasons has Jeff Van Gundy had as a head coach in the NBA?Funny how you lost your broken English.
I do agree with you about V-Span though. Especially the part about Van Gundy, he was horrible for Houston, simply a HORRIBLE coach...the most overated coach in the NBA.
DD
To say he's a horrible coach is just flat out stupid and misinformed
JVG is the most overated coach in the NBA, he has had talent and failed at every stop.
He knows one system and has trouble adjusting in the playoffs.
The best thing that happened to the Houston Rockets since Yao Ming was drafted was that JVG was thrown out on his arse.
DD
How many losing seasons did Avery have, and where is he now?
It is not condescending to say someone does not understand the subtleties of the game.
This is stupid. He is one of quickest guards ever from Europe and he is a very good shooter. Only reason he have problem with 3 point shots in Rockets is because he force to sit for 3 games then get to come to game off bench at end of game then if miss one shot get benched again.
You are posting from Texas. Please give this up.
Vspan is a legit talent.
I would definitely want him for spurs ASAP (as a backup)
How many seasons did Avery coach........that's a dumbass comparision. Avery was given a stacked team and did well his first season, but after that....not so much.
Well I guess by your account, about 90% of the coaches in the NBA are overrated then huh.
face it.....where ever Jeff Van Gundy goes, 50 win teams follow. He doesn't have the ring to his name and his ceiling for top success is limited, but the guy can come into a bad situation and whip players into shape and get players to play their asses off........he's a good coach in this league regardless of how crappy your trying to make him seem.
I'm glad he came here and inserted his defensive principles into this team and while I knew we'd need another coach to reach the next level (and was for the Adelman hiring so they'll be a new voice in the lockeroom, but I'm not going to say JVG was a bad coach), what JVG did while he was here should not go unoticed. Without JVG's defensive at ude (that's still here), this team would've been dead ducks without Yao last season. If Houston is somehow able to win a ring in the next couple of season a big reason why will be because of that defense.
JVG is the perfect coach to bring into a young or bad situation.......he's the perfect coach to whip undisciplined teams into shape, because the player will either ship up, or be shipped out. Ala Steve Francis (oh BTW that's another player that got into that downright horrible head coach JVG's doghouse. ........so with Stro Swift, Bonzi Wells, Vsuck, and Steve Francis.......JVG was ing 4 for 4, yet he's so damn horrible.)
Last edited by Tmac&Luther; 08-12-2008 at 11:16 PM.
I live in Houston dumbass......I heard and read the interviews, please hop off of Vsuck's the crap is getting old.
So for those keeping count at home....
Now it's JVG's fault that he was a failure
and also the lying backstabbing Houston media (this isn't New York dumbass, the Houston media is the most homeristic and nicest media around.......they suck up to the athletes around here to a fault)
3 straight 50+ (2 with over 60) wins every season and a finals appearance. What did Van Gundy do with a stacked team? Having T-Mac and Yao is a stacked team. Ever get to the finals?
JVG coached the Rockets for 4 years and Avery coached the Mavs for 3 and in his 3 seasons dominated the Rockets. JVG had 2 50+ win seasons and got bounced in the first round each time.
JVG coached for 4 years with the Rockets and only had 2 50 win seasons and never got them out of the first round. Avery on the other hand coached 3 years with the Mavs and had 2 60+ win seasons and one 50+ win season. He also lead them to a finals. So what is your point that makes JVG so great?Well I guess by your account, about 90% of the coaches in the NBA are overrated then huh.
face it.....where ever Jeff Van Gundy goes, 50 win teams follow. He doesn't have the ring to his name and his ceiling for top success is limited, but the guy can come into a bad situation and whip players into shape and get players to play their asses off........he's a good coach in this league regardless of how crappy your trying to make him seem.
I'm glad he came here and inserted his defensive principles into this team and while I knew we'd need another coach to reach the next level (and was for the Adelman hiring so they'll be a new voice in the lockeroom, but I'm not going to say JVG was a bad coach), what JVG did while he was here should not go unoticed. Without JVG's defensive at ude (that's still here), this team would've been dead ducks without Yao last season. If Houston is somehow able to win a ring in the next couple of season a big reason why will be because of that defense.
JVG is the perfect coach to bring into a young or bad situation.......he's the perfect coach to whip undisciplined teams into shape, because the player will either ship up, or be shipped out. Ala Steve Francis (oh BTW that's another player that got into that downright horrible head coach JVG's doghouse. ........so with Stro Swift, Bonzi Wells, Vsuck, and Steve Francis.......JVG was ing 4 for 4, yet he's so damn horrible.
Tmac and Luther,
You are pissed at Vspan because he quit, so are you saying that anyone that quits on a team deserves to be hammered?
Is that your main issue that VSpan was a quitter?
DD
They are just so grossly misinformed. They do not use logic, like I said they are Rocket fans, not basketball fans. There is a difference. It is ok to be like that, but it makes you sound foolish when you bash 1st year players and pimp Rafer Alston and JVG.
Having Yao and Tmac + garbage is not a stacked team, your a idiot for thinking that. I mean we can even put the injuries aside.........they went into the playoffs with a bench that scored zero points in a crucial playoff game..... it wasn't even just the bench, their 5th starter didn't even score.
JVG's team were underdogs (Houston vs. Dallas) and he still stretched the other team to the bring with vital role players like Ryan ing Bowen.
Well, you did have the rights to him and then he left for Greece... lets remember this.
I'm not pissed at Vsuck because he quit........ I'm not even mad at him, I'm just not going to let a dumbass thread that blames JVG for Vsucks failures. Vsuck is a man, he needs to be held accountable. I'm here to speak the damn truth and the truth is, that Vsuck just didn't want to be a NBA baller......he was a player that wasn't willing to put in work, and wasn't willing to pay his dues. So it's completely stupid to blame JVG, because Vsuck was a home sick mental weakling.
Again, I'm not mad at Vsuck, and although I do think that he quit (which he did and you can't even make a legit argument against that) I'm glad he played for the team, because like you said, we turned Vsuck into Luis Scola.....a true professional and NBA baller.
Yep, I'm foolish to back a professional that was willing to pay his dues at this level and scratch out a nice living and spot in the NBA. I'm so foolish I also back a coach that helped in rebuilding Houston back to being a legit smart basketball team and not just the streetball sideshow circus that they were before he got here.
Your right I'm a NBA fan, that's why when I talk about Vsuck, I could give a rats ass what he does overseas, all I know is he had his shot in the NBA and he pissed it away.......he quit, and whether you or DD is man enough to admit it......that's the damn facts. You can continue to ignore those facts if you want to, but if you do......I'm not the one that's "grossly misinformed" here.
The facts hurt don't they. You can not argue numbers. JVG clearly was out coached by Avery in the same window of time. Not even close.
Having Yao and Tmac + garbage is not a stacked team, your a idiot for thinking that. I mean we can even put the injuries aside.........they went into the playoffs with a bench that scored zero points in a crucial playoff game..... it wasn't even just the bench, their 5th starter didn't even score.
JVG's team were underdogs (Houston vs. Dallas) and he still stretched the other team to the bring with vital role players like Ryan ing Bowen.
Dallas Roster year they went to the finals:
1 Dirk Nowitzki F 6-11 237 27 81 81 38.1 9.3
2 Jason Terry G 6-2 176 28 80 80 35.0 6.5 13.7
3 Josh Howard F-G 6-7 210 25 59 58 32.5 5.9 12.6
4 Jerry Stackhouse G-F 6-6 218 31 55 11 27.7 4.4 11.0
5 Marquis Daniels G-F 6-6 200 25 62 29 28.5 4.0 8.3
6 Devin Harris G 6-3 185 22 56 4 22.8 3.4 7.2
7 Keith Van Horn F 6-10 220 30 53 0 20.6 3.1 7.3
8 Erick Dampier C-F 6-11 265 30 82 36 23.6 2.1 4.2
9 Adrian Griffin G-F 6-5 217 31 52 45 23.9 1.9 3.9
10 Doug Christie G-F 6-6 200 35 7 7 26.4 1.3 3.7
11 Rawle Marshall G-F 6-9 190 23 23 9 10.5 1.0 2.6
12 Pavel Podkolzin C 7-5 260 21 1 0 18.0 0.0 2.0
13 Josh Powell F 6-9 225 23 37 2 11.6 1.0 2.2
14 DeSagana Diop C 7-0 300 24 81 45 18.6 0.9 1.9
15 Darrell Armstrong G 6-0 170 37 62 2 10.0 0.7 2.1
16 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga
That is super stacked...Having a young Devin Harris, Dampier as the center along with Diop and Mbenga, then having Keith Van Horn. You realize that your lame excuses about Avery having a "stacked team" just flew out the window.
Houston's Roster that same year:
1 Yao Ming C 7-6 310 25 57 57 1949 467 900
2 Tracy McGrady F 6-8 210 26 47 47 1745 410 1011
3 Juwan Howard F-C 6-9 240 32 80 80 2537 394 859
4 Rafer Alston G 6-2 171 29 63 63 2431 280 738
5 Luther Head G 6-3 185 23 80 27 2310 254 630
6 David Wesley G 6-0 190 35 71 59 2372 226 561
7 Stromile Swift F 6-9 225 26 66 5 1344 225 458
8 Keith Bogans G-F 6-5 215 25 33 22 1064 101 256
9 Derek Anderson G 6-5 194 31 20 8 582 68 173
10 Dikembe Mutombo C 7-2 245 39 64 23 955 50
11 Chuck Hayes F 6-6 240 22 40 0 535 59 105
12 Ryan Bowen F 6-7 215 30 68 19 652 37 124
13 Jon Barry G 6-4 195 36 20 0 342 25 65 .385
14 Lonny Baxter F 6-8 260 27 23 0 281 33 72
15 Moochie Norris G 6-1 175 32 29 0 241 26 65
16 Rick Brunson G 6-4 190 33 23 0 215 16 46
17 Richie Frahm G 6-5 210 28 8 0 117 15 35
18 John Lucas G 5-11 165 23 13 0 107 14 36 .389
19 Stephen Graham G 6-6 215 23 6 0 38 6 16
20 Maciej Lampe F 6-11 275 20 4 0 12 2 7
21 Josh Davis
This roster is just as manageable as the Mavs. In fact I would say that Yao/McGrady > Dirk/Howard. You can take into consideration the injuries that year, but what about next year? You add Bonzi and Battier and still lose in the first round.
The Mavs won 67 games the next year and only added Devean George. So don't give me your opinion, I know the facts.
Yep VSpan quit, just like JVG when he quit on the Knicks.
JVG was a crap coach for Houston, once we got Tmac, he was good for Francis and Mobley, but horrible for a Tmac led team.
Up 2-0 in the first round twice and can't bring the team home....give me a break.
If all VSpan did was get JVG fired then he did an excellent job in Houston, but he did more than that, he got us Scola too.
So Vspan is +2 in my book.
DD
Your not an NBA fan, your a Rocket fan and that is it. What the are you yapping about JVG restoring the glory days, lmao. Did not Rudy T deliver back to back championships to Houston in 94 and 95? Aren't those the glory days? You are just spouting off non-sense in all of your post.
JVG could not get a sniff of Rudy T's jock, Rudy forced the NBA to change their rules by his implementation of the ISO offense....
JVG...well, he quit when his team started struggling.
DD
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