Damn media reporting negative news.It might be in poor taste but the media, not Deron Williams, would be the one causing a real scene with that picture and making it front page news.
Which was hypocritical- as you correctly pointed out.
I can't take back the posts.
All I know to do is acknowledge my error and post better in the future.
What else would you have me do?
if Spain had done that upfront we likely would not be having this discussion.
So the league would be hypocritical. Exactly.
And, quite frankly, it would have been deserved.
[spaniard]you the americans think that are better than us! you that kill and destroy in all the world! you really are the racist![/spaniard]
Absolutely. As is the flak Team Spain is getting.
Obviously the NBA would come down on him. Team USA suspends him -- or maybe just kicks him off the team.
But the reason for that is because that type of racist joke isn't acceptable in US culture. By the time you are in first grade, most kids in the US know that doing that slanty-eyed gesture is wrong.
However, judging racism across cultures is tricky. Just because something is racism here doesn't mean it is considered racism in every society. In the Dominican Republic, for example, if someone has dark skin and is athletic it is a compliment to compare the person to a monkey. But if you call someone black, even if they are of direct African descent, that is considered racist.
So yeah, I'm not saying the Spanish national team is completely innocent but I don't think we can judge what they did accurately because it isn't comparing apples to apples.
It wouldn't be the first time that the league's been accused of having a double standard, but shouldn't the league worry about the league's reputation? Wojo's right in his hypothetical.
Wouldn't it be in FIBA's interest to do something or is that whole big push to stop racism in European sport just window dressing?
It's not really hypocritical. It's more like judging what you know. If you open that can of worms, where does it stop? If Beno does a hand gesture that is racist in Slovenia but doesn't mean anything in the United States, should the NBA come down on him?
FIBA, maybe. NBA, no.
I agree it's something that's tough to gauge, especially with something so arbitrary (and I'm not going to pretend to understand a significant amount of European culture), but eventually, the league's going to be taken to task for its failure to act fairly.
Again, though, it's not like the league's well-known for consistently applying its rules.
In 2060, the Al-Andalus Olympic basketball team will look back on this and laugh.
me be chinese,
i play joke,
me put pee pee in your coke...
They be lucky if some ninja don't come next time they in chiney restaurant and kill them while they are eating fly lie.
If the NBA wanted to start policing gestures, this slanty-eyed picture doesn't even compare to something like Vlade Divac's hand gesture. Where was the outrage when Divac did a gesture about 10,000 times in his NBA career?
There wasn't any even though that gesture can be interpreted as being much more offensive than what the Spain basketball team did. Why wasn't there any outrage? Because as Americans, we had no idea WTF Divac was doing.
So unless the NBA wants to hire race relation experts from each country to figure out what is or isn't considered racist in a given culture, it's best to keep that can of worms closed. Police what you know but don't go out searching for racism or other forms of prejudice to crack down on. It won't work.
timvp just gave me Vince Carter's, "It's over!" hand gesture.
Despite its recent move toward becoming an international organization, the National Basketball Association is still an American league. As such, I think it would be fully within its rights to demand that the players/coaches/etc. respect the boundaries of what is and isn't appropriate within our country and within our culture, regardless what may be acceptable within a player's home country. There may be cultures that encourage verbally attacking the referees during the game, but it isn't tolerated in the NBA under any cir stances.
That being said, I don't know that it's really the NBA's job to enforce its will on an event that occurred during international play. I would hope they make a statement condemning this behavior, clearly stating that it will not be tolerated during league play, and perhaps even chastising the NBA players that were involved, but I would also find it inappropriate to do much more than that.
As far as your Beno hypothetical... not quite the same thing. This situation would be more comparable to an American player going to Slovenia and making an offensive hand gesture, in which case I would think the NBA would be right in making a similar statement.
Ultimately, everyone can claim ignorance and cultural differences, but when you're traveling abroad (especially with the near ambassadorial status of an Olympic athelete) it is your responsibility to familiarize yourself with what is and is not offensive/acceptable within their culture.
That is an excellent and well stated point.
Ultimately, everyone can claim ignorance and cultural differences, but when you're traveling abroad (especially with the near ambassadorial status of an Olympic athelete) it is your responsibility to familiarize yourself with what is and is not offensive/acceptable within their culture.
the goddamn most over covered thing of insignificance since favre and the dark knight...
Yeah, if the player is playing in the NBA on US soil, they should be forced to live up to US ideals. However, I don't think that should responsibility should necessarily remain outside the NBA and outside the US.
If a player is in their home country, playing for their home team and shooting an advertisement for their home newspaper (which is how the Spain pic came into existence in the first place), I don't think the NBA should have a say in what they can or can't do. Unless it is something obviously offensive that crosses all cultural lines, the NBA shouldn't and can't police what is appropriate in each culture.
For example, if Francisco Garcia went back to the Dominican Republic, put on a monkey suit and made a commercial for a zoo, that would come across as racist by US standards ... but totally acceptable by DR standards.
Eh, I think that's FIBA's job. Stern may say something ... but only if an advertiser threatens to pull out. Otherwise, the NBA is in a position that they should just let it blow over.
The Spanish team pic was taken in Spain for Spaniard consumption. How is that comparable to an American going to Slovenia and making an offensive hand gesture?
The picture in question wasn't taken when the team was abroad. And apparently the Chinese themselves didn't have much of a problem considering they gave the Spanish team a standing ovation the day after the picture was released.
In fact, the people who seem to be most upset by the picture are Americans, as odd as that may be. Other European countries and even Asian countries aren't giving the story near as much run as we see here.
Are we even sure that slanty-eyed gesture is considered racist in China? I have a su ion that it is more racist in the US than it is in China.
Not surprising. If a foreigner made that slanty-eyed gesture in China, I'm guessing the average Chinese person wouldn't know WTF they were doing. It may be like if a Chinese person came to America and held their eyes open wide. I'm guessing more Americans wouldn't view that as racist.Huang Shiren, a fan at the Spain-Germany game, said at halftime he hadn't heard about the picture. When shown the photo he didn't recognize the gesture.
"Are they looking at something?" Huang asked.
Chinese, more than 90 percent of whom are members of the majority Han ethnic group, tend to be highly sensitive to political slights against their nation, but less attuned to racial and ethnic slurs seen in the West. Huang, a Han who works for the city government, said all seemed well in relations between the two countries.
This is exactly why you can't police the world based on one culture. Publicly condemning the Spanish national team because that gesture is offensive in America wouldn't make too much sense if the gesture wasn't offensive in China.
P.S.
I may be wrong about where the picture was taken. I've seen it reported both ways and too lazy to search for confirmation.
Don't think we're terribly far apart on this one, really. I do think that a statement from Stern is warranted, even if for no other reason than to satisfy the American NBA audience, who does (should) see this as an offensive gesture, but I absolutely agree that any type of punishment or suspension for something that happened completely out of the context of the league would be hugely inappropriate.
The claim of ignorance or misunderstanding. If Beno, a Slovenian athlete, went to Slovenia and made a hand gesture that was offensive in Slovenian culture, there's no way to deny he knew exactly what he was doing -- NBA involvement wouldn't be necessary, but I doubt it would blow over without comment from anyone. If an American athlete made the same gesture, without knowing it was offensive (as is the Spanish claim), I think that an apology would be appropriate. If that athlete was acting as a representative of the NBA (which, lets face it, is what the Olympic team has become ever since they started using pros), I also think that a statement from Stern would be appropriate.
Perhaps we, collectively, are overreacting. Perhaps we, collectively, have become so obssesed with political correctness that we don't know whether or not an incident is truly deserving of our ire. Perhaps we, collectively, need to stop forcing our values on the rest of the world. And, perhaps other cultures could stand to gain a little political correctness of their own. Who knows?The picture in question wasn't taken when the team was abroad. And apparently the Chinese themselves didn't have much of a problem considering they gave the Spanish team a standing ovation the day after the picture was released.
In fact, the people who seem to be most upset by the picture are Americans, as odd as that may be. Other European countries and even Asian countries aren't giving the story near as much run as we see here.
Whatever the reason, the American people are upset by this. Which is why I think a statement from Stern to make it clear, in no uncertain terms, that the league does not endorse such behavior from any of its players, regardless their country of origin, would be a smart move. Not policing, not official league actions, not suspensions, just a statement.
I think this whole thing would be completely doused if the Chinese team simply took a picture making straighty-eye gestures.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
