To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.
For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread.
In this thread, we will vote for spot number one. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.
Thanks.
P.S.
Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.
Voting will end 2AM CST Sunday morning. Please vote only once.
TIM DUNCAN - before TD came to NBA I didn't even watch basketball. But when I saw that guy play I was just ''WOW!''. He was also my inspiration for playing basketball, and because of him I alway try to do my best when I play. Plus he won pretty much all important awards and I hope he's ready for at least one more ring.
So my #1 is TD!
I'm torn between Drossos and Duncan......Drossos was the guy who brought the Spurs to San Antonio but Duncan was the missing championship piece. I'm gunna go with Duncan even though he got a lot of helping along the way.
Tony Parker. And don't even ask.
David Robinson was the heart and soul of the Spurs, and he stuck with our team through thick and thin. I feel like he set the standard of how a Spurs player should be, on and off the court.
I can make a case for Duncan, Robinson, Gervin and Drossos in my mind. I'm going to sleep on it before I make my vote.
Duncan.
For all that came before him, and for all that may come after him, I believe that Duncan put the stamp on this franchise. He brought the Championships home, he's led with incredible grace. I think he'll be the one most people will think of first when the Spurs are mentioned.
Tim Duncan is the reason I'm as into basketball as I am now. I was blessed enough to live in Chicago during the Bulls dynasty of the 90's, but moving down to San Antonio gave me a clean slate to build on. I embraced my new home, and the Spurs, and Tim Duncan with it. He has been the constant in all 4 of our le teams. His actions speaking louder than his words mirrors my own personal philosophy. On a more personal level, that he is as much a nerd as he is, is an indescribable thing, given who I am. That I have something in common with my favorite basketball player of all time, and that that something involves Dungeons and Dragons and Rennaisance Faires, is one of the greatest feelings in the world.
DRob...regardless of what happened before or since he got here, the Spurs would not be in SA without him and neither would Tim Duncan. David Robinson turned down untold millions, greater fame, and more championships to play for the Spurs. He turned down the chance to play with Magic Johnson and replace Kareem Abdul Jabbar in LA, to play for a cash strapped lottery team that was on the verge of leaving it's town.
I do not think one other player in team history would have been willing to do that had they been in David Robinson's place. I can't think of many NBA players in history would have done that. It takes a special man to make that decision at the time Drob made it, a guy who truly pulls for the underdog.
IF DRob had been all about championships and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.
If Drob had been all about fame and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.
If Drob had been all about money and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.
Drob knew he was taking the hard path to fame, fortune and les, when he signed with the Spurs, and he still did it.
Drob all the way...
Last edited by whottt; 08-16-2008 at 03:52 AM.
That's a pretty good argument . . .
My automatic first reaction would be to vote for Duncan. But Whottt makes a dang good argument for David. Hmmm...
I think most people who weren't Spurs fans before Duncan got here have that same first reaction.
I agree.
He will always be under appreciated by the NBA, and his own Spur followers.
Thanks guys...yeah I don't think many people realize that David Robinson was a #1 draft pick defacto Free Agent signing out of the Navy.
He didn't have sign with the Spurs, due to his military commitment of 2 years. He was a Free Agent when he signed with the Spurs and he was free to sign with anyone. And every one tried to sign him....
We'll never know exactly what all David turned down, but he definitely turned down being the highest paid player in the NBA, huge endorsement opportunities, and IMO, he turned down the chance to be considered one of the top 4 or 5 centers in NBA history. He could have had any big market media machine behind him, the stuff that makes the stars, and with his character he would have been an absolute NBA legend.
Could have signed with anyone...instead, he told Jerry West...no.
I know why he did it...2 reasons, because the Spurs were the team that drafted him, and because he knew they needed him the most to survive.
Tim Duncan for me. Tim is the best player to ever put on a Spurs uniform. As the greatest power forward of all-time, he's the one guy on the list who would not only make an all-time All-NBA team, he would also be in the starting lineup.
During his years in San Antonio, Duncan has won countless accolades and individual honors, including MVPs and Finals MVPs. But the most important thing Duncan has brought to the team is his at ude. Yes, a lot of that at ude started with David Robinson. However, with or without le #2, Five-Oh was retiring after the 2003 season. If Duncan doesn't adopt the selfless, team-first, cut-the-hype-and-let's-play-defense at ude, then the team falls apart when Robinson leaves. Maybe Parker decides to rebel against Pop's screaming at him, and he bolts San Antonio (or is traded) as soon as possible. Maybe countless role-players over the years don't buy into the system (first quote you always hear from the new guys, "Pop treats everyone the same, including Duncan. When you see that, and you see how Duncan reacts, you know you have to toe the line."). And don't you dare think I'm over-valuing Duncan's at ude. All of the stuff I listed is possible, and much more, without Duncan's selflessness.
So, then maybe I'm over-valuing the last 5 years? After all, the franchise has a much deeper history than that. But the poll says the guys who have most "helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport." This means 4 championships (all under Duncan's reign). This means ESPN naming the Spurs the best organization in all of sports (again, under Duncan's reign). This means a team that is fully integrated into the community, which continues strong to this day, thanks to Duncan and Robinson. And above all, this means an organization that isn't going away any time soon. One that will compete for championships for years to come, and that will always be filled with good guys and community leaders, because from now on the people of San Antonio will demand no less.
Even if the role players around him are uninspiring at some point, sports writers will be forced to type, "You can never count out a team with Tim Duncan."
As long as Tim Duncan is here, the Spurs will be winners, on and off the court.
And with the organization he has helped establish, my money is on that continuing for a very long time.
It's a real disadvantage because half of all the fans (at least) came with TD and don't understand the value of DRob himself.
The arguments that come to mind are..
1) TD won les without DRob.
However.. TD had a better team at all times when DRob did not. I highly doubt TD's win ratio would have been better or the same as DRob's with the teams David was on.
2) Stats. Robinson owns them over TD. And I ignore the last couple years of David's career, as he played with ailing back. Besides, I bet when TD's decline years hurt his average his stats wouldn't be on DRob's level either.
Wow! Like some, I was all set to automatically cast my vote, on first reaction, for Duncan, for obvious reasons - until I read Whott's case. All of which is a simple reminder to the culture, foundation and the continued existence of a sports franchise in the sleepy little city of San Antonio. All made possible by Robinson and the decisions and values that he stood for. Without question, D-Rob was the building block. The pillar. The franchise cornerstone. All those terms are overused in the sports vernacular, but they were never more true when referencing Robinson. As great, talented and superior an athlete and player as he was, he is an even better human being. Without him, none of the ensuing on-court success, championship excellence and financial profitability takes place. In fact, the Spurs franchise, as Whott reminds us, would have surely relocated elsewhere. If that happens, then we're having Spurs talk from Kansas City, Charlotte, San Diego or some other city. Just for a moment, imagine the change in the iden y and the perception of San Antonio without the Spurs?
In addition to carrying the franchise throughout his first 8 seasons, with an assortment of teaammates, role players and scrubs, and in doing so, becoming THE most decorated Spur in team history to that point, David willingly sacrificed his game so that a young, up-and-coming rookie (Duncan) could flourish. He mentored Tim and then wisely stepped back and allowed the student to become the teacher. With that sacrifice, smart personnel moves, and through Duncan's greatness, came the start of the championship dynasty that we're now enjoying.
As far as I'm concerned, it's case closed for the Admiral. Thanks for keeping it real, Whott.
That's really amazing and never gets old to me. David could have ignore it and put up his usual 25 12 and 3 but for the sake of the team and the player Duncan had potential to be, he did that.
For me personally I believe Duncan is the better individual player, however there's a lot more that goes into being the greatest Spur. It's actions and off court things as well.
Loyalty to a franchise and a city is certainly a charateristic of yesteryear. Something the LeBron's, the Kobe's and many other of today's NBA superstars would never know. They're too busy chasing the green, regardless of the source. Too often, the mindset with today's players seems to be "pay me first, we'll worry about winning later on." Invaribly, once paid, they want to then become the team GM.
Back to D-Rob, his off-court case for Dave notwithstanding, I wouldn't want to overlook the fact that he was a great, great player. As evidenced by his being named one of the 50 Greatest Players of All-Time. I'm so happy that he won 2 les because it silenced a lot of his naysayers, who publically crucified David and the Spurs by labeling them as "soft" - especially after that heartbreaking 1995 WCF series versus Rockets.
Last edited by SenorSpur; 08-16-2008 at 05:02 AM.
If it wasn't obvious from my post anyway, Robinson is a very close second for me. A lot of the arguments I used for Duncan could very easily be used for Robinson. Both are tremendous off-the-court guys who are amazingly selfless and a great role model not only for their teammates, but for all of us. As I implied, the points that pushed me toward Duncan over Robinson were:
-Duncan's tenure corresponding more closely to the true golden years of the Spurs.
-Preemptively giving him credit for what he's going to do in the next 5-10 years.
-Duncan more thoroughly dominating his position and being perhaps the most consistent player in the history of the game.
Pop is pretty important too...Pop built this organization as the GM before he won les as a coach.
And I think Gervin is every bit as deserving of consideration for Big Spur Numero Uno as anyone...without George Gervin, I doubt the Spurs are one of the teams chosen to jump to the NBA.
It's funny because the Spurs now have this rep of being a bunch of good guys...but with Gervin they were flat out the coolest team in the NBA. Totally different image with Gervin.
How cool is George?
He taught Michael Jordan how to win scoring les...it does not get any cooler than that.
True. D-Rob's lost endorsement potential will never be known. However, David had excellent representation. I do know that his agent smartly negotiated an escalator clause in David's second contract that called for him to be annually paid as one of the top 3-5 players in the game. Therefore, as the salaries of the upper-echelon, great players (Bird, Magic, Olajuwon) went up, so did David's. A brillant contractual clause, negotiated during the non-salary cap era. I just wanted it to be clear that D-Rob was annually well-compensated by the Spurs.
Interesting story. Having grew up in San Antonio during Gervin's heyday, I can recall Ice embroiled in an ugly contractual dispute with former owner Angelo Drossos . Drossos balked and haggled with Gervin's reps as to whether to pay him $1 million for a single season! It got pretty ugly and was made public in the Express-News because Angelo just couldn't get his mind around paying a ball player, even one of Gervin's national prominence, that much money. I seem to remember they finally agreed to a contract for about $950k annually. I know that sounds trivial by today's economic standards.
Word. I remember Jordan telling that story. Also Gervin was cited by Julius "Dr. J" Erving, as the one player that he would willingly PAY to go see in person.
Any way I can recast my vote?
Yeah in Drob's contract was that he be paid an average of the top 3 salaries in the NBA, not top 5, top 3.
More than that...the Spurs agreed to pay him a million a year before he even started playing for the team.
But both of them were deals Drob could have gotten from anyone...in addition to better endorsement deals.
Drob could have broke the bank...he wasn't restricte to any payscale, and there's no doubt the Lakers had more money to offer him.
Drob tore his contract up at that point...and he didn't have to do that either.
But yeah, it was still a paycut for David...the Spurs couldn't offer him as much as the other teams had to offer him...they didn't have the money to do it. That average worked out for the Spurs so that he'd be giving himself his own raises once he started drawing fans.
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