To be honest, do you believe that Michael phelps wins 8 golds in Beijing?

[T Park]

Only if we could have a time machine two see these to square off against each other in their prime.

Spitz would get smoked.

[florige]

Off topic, but that US Gymnast Alicia Sacramone is freakin gorgeous!!!!!

[lefty]

[travis2]

Well then who is the greatest athlete? Really the only way to judge them is by the way they dominated their peers and events, historical and contemporary. And Phelps is pretty much in a class by himself in that dominating multiple events category, although truthfully I don't think he was a dominant as Mark Spitz was...none of Mark Spitz' races were even close.

I don't know how you can say Phelps wasn't dominant in his wins. Considering he's a 200/400 swimmer with a couple of 100s thrown in for kicks.

The only races of his that were even close were his 100s (relays included) and a 200m race that proved he doesn't even need to see to break world records.

[samikeyp]

Off topic, but that US Gymnast Alicia Sacramone is freakin gorgeous!!!!!

Easy brother....isn't she is like 16 or something? I am sure you want to give her the Flo Experience but you could get into trouble!

[travis2]

She's 20 and a student at Brown University. Johnson is 16, Liukin is 17 or 18 (can't recall).

[florige]

Easy brother....isn't she is like 16 or something? I am sure you want to give her the Flo Experience but you could get into trouble!

Yeah trust me I checked first. She was talking about how she was the mother figure for the rest of the younger girls there.

[Fabbs]

Spitz would get smoked.

oly women gold medal winner of past on radio spoke how superior the equipment and training methods Phelps has over Spitz.
Couple specifics were the googles. She said Spitz could only train a couple hours a day in the pool because the chlorine would do a number on ones eyes. Todays swimmers apparantly spend much more time in the water.
Also the NASA designed suits are definitely increasing times.
Last but not least, she said they added a foot of depth to the pools. This greatly cuts down on turbulence, she elaborated that the waves caused by the swimmers go to the bottom of the pool and bounce back. She said this one extra foot makes a lot of difference, not as many waves to cut thru.

ulatively these all add to much faster times.
Spitz with access to the same training and a great race would be had.

Like comparing 1960s baseball players to the steroid munchers of today and especially the 1998-2004 Barroid Bonds-McGuire years of all-you-can-eat 'roids. Not a fair comparison.

[v2freak]

what he did was great, but there are way too many swimming events. You don't think Jordan could have been the greatest Olympian ever if he had Olympic events for team basketball, dunk contest, one-on-one, 3 point shooting, best fadeaway, 21, free throw shooting, and crotch scratching?

Excellent point. There is a discrepency here. That point alone should shut all of this "greatest olympian" talk because like another poster said, it's comparing apples and oranges.

[whottt]

I don't know how you can say Phelps wasn't dominant in his wins. Considering he's a 200/400 swimmer with a couple of 100s thrown in for kicks.

The only races of his that were even close were his 100s (relays included) and a 200m race that proved he doesn't even need to see to break world records.

I didn't say he wasn't dominant....I said he wasn't as dominant as Spitz was. He really wasn't...Spitz was much more dominant.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimmin...ummer_Olympics



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimmin...ummer_Olympics



Just sayin'...Spitz had much more impressive margins of victory, in every single race. No one got within a half second of him...and only one guy did that. Every one else got beat by 1-2 seconds.

[Kermit]

Plus he had that stache which added to his time. Imagine what he could've accomplished by manscaping.

[whottt]

And he had long hair...no swim cap.

[whottt]

Seriously...they should have given him an extra medal for winning with a stache.

[Kermit]

He was a hairy, pornstache wearing man's man without a technologically enhanced swimsuit. Plus instead of ingesting 12,000 calories, he would bang broads during his break for the adrenaline.

[travis2]

I didn't say he wasn't dominant....I said he wasn't as dominant as Spitz was. He really wasn't...Spitz was much more dominant.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimmin...ummer_Olympics



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swimmin...ummer_Olympics



Just sayin'...Spitz had much more impressive margins of victory, in every single race. No one got within a half second of him...and only one guy did that. Every one else got beat by 1-2 seconds.

Again, I'm going to disagree with you. Let's look at those times.

First, let's ONLY compare INDIVIDUAL events...neither Spitz nor Phelps was in complete control of the margin of victory in the team events.

Now then...Spitz swam 4 individual events. They were (with margins of victory in seconds):

100m free -- 0.43
200m free -- 0.95
100m fly --- 1.29
200m fly --- 2.16


Phelps swam 5 individual events. They were (with margins of victory in seconds):

200m free -- 1.49
100m fly --- 0.01
200m fly --- 0.67
200m IM --- 2.29
400m IM --- 2.32

Comparing the numbers directly, only ONE time "doesn't belong", and that's Phelps' 100m fly. All other times are comparable AND dominant. Further, Phelps' 2nd lowest score was a WR set with his goggles full of water.

Finally, I repeat the point I made earlier...Phelps and Spitz are not precisely the same class of swimmer. Spitz was a sprinter, pure and simple...he even said himself that if there had been a 50m free he'd have competed in it. Phelps is a short/middle distance (200/400) swimmer, who just happens to have enough 100m speed to hold his own.

One last point, which someone already made. Spitz was a 2-stroke swimmer. Phelps competed in all 4 strokes.

[whottt]

The other thing about it is he's jewish and he did his feat in the same Olympics where the Israeli athletes were brutally slaughtered by the PLO.

[samikeyp]

Yeah trust me I checked first. She was talking about how she was the mother figure for the rest of the younger girls there.

Ahh...then by all means, go get her!

[whottt]

Again, I'm going to disagree with you. Let's look at those times.

First, let's ONLY compare INDIVIDUAL events...neither Spitz nor Phelps was in complete control of the margin of victory in the team events.

Now then...Spitz swam 4 individual events. They were (with margins of victory in seconds):

100m free -- 0.43
200m free -- 0.95
100m fly --- 1.29
200m fly --- 2.16


Phelps swam 5 individual events. They were (with margins of victory in seconds):

200m free -- 1.49
100m fly --- 0.01
200m fly --- 0.67
200m IM --- 2.29
400m IM --- 2.32

Comparing the numbers directly, only ONE time "doesn't belong", and that's Phelps' 100m fly. All other times are comparable AND dominant. Further, Phelps' 2nd lowest score was a WR set with his goggles full of water.

Finally, I repeat the point I made earlier...Phelps and Spitz are not precisely the same class of swimmer. Spitz was a sprinter, pure and simple...he even said himself that if there had been a 50m free he'd have competed in it. Phelps is a short/middle distance (200/400) swimmer, who just happens to have enough 100m speed to hold his own.

One last point, which someone already made. Spitz was a 2-stroke swimmer. Phelps competed in all 4 strokes.

I don't think they are that much different of swimmers...how many gold medals and WR does Phelps have in backstroke and breaststroke? How many of anything does Phelps have in breaststroke?

They are both basically butterfly and front crawl swimmers...and Spitz dominated more in their 2 dominant strokes.

I only see Phelps competed in one 400m race...same as the number of 100m races he competed in...so I don't really see how you can argue that he is more of a 100m guy than a 400m guy. One could argue that with 2 dominant strokes, that's all you need to win a medley. To me it's not out of the realm of possiblity that Spitz could have won the medleys, where it is pretty much out of the realm of possiblity that Phelps could have won any 50m race..


I look at the 3 exact same races they competed in together and Spitz clearly was more dominant in 2 of the 3 races, and the one where Phelps was more dominant, the 200m free, the only shared race where Phelps was more dominant, it's not like Spitz was a scrub, since he beat his man by nearly 1 second.


In short, no one came close to beating Spitz and he set the WR record in every primary stroke event he entered...and someone did come close to beating Phelps and he didn't set the WR in every primary stroke event he entered.

I think Spitz was easily and obviously the more dominant swimmer in the shared individual events that are their strengths.


I think an argument can be made the Phelps is the better swimmer...but I don't think he was as dominating in these Olympics as Spitz was in 72 especially in the main events. No one came close to beating Spitz.....

[travis2]

I don't think they are that much different of swimmers...how many gold medals and WR does Phelps have in backstroke and breaststroke? How many of anything does Phelps have in breaststroke?

They are both basically butterfly and front crawl swimmers...and Spitz dominated more in their 2 dominant strokes.

I only see Phelps competed in one 400m race...same as the number of 100m races he competed in...so I don't really see how you can argue that he is more of a 100m guy than a 400m guy. One could argue that with 2 dominant strokes, that's all you need to win a medley. To me it's not out of the realm of possiblity that Spitz could have won the medleys, where it is pretty much out of the realm of possiblity that Phelps could have won any 50m race..


I look at the 3 exact same races they competed in together and Spitz clearly was more dominant in 2 of the 3 races, and the one where Phelps was more dominant, the 200m free, the only shared race where Phelps was more dominant, it's not like Spitz was a scrub, since he beat his man by nearly 1 second.


In short, no one came close to beating Spitz and he set the WR record in every primary stroke event he entered...and someone did come close to beating Phelps and he didn't set the WR in every primary stroke event he entered.

I think Spitz was easily and obviously the more dominant swimmer in the shared individual events that are their strengths.


I think an argument can be made the Phelps is the better swimmer...but I don't think he was as dominating in these Olympics as Spitz was in 72 especially in the main events. No one came close to beating Spitz.....

Did you not bother to read (TWICE) where I said that the 200m fly was the one he swam with GOGGLES FULL OF WATER? You think MAYBE that might have made a difference? And he STILL set the WR in that race...counting strokes instead of watching where he was.

I don't think there's anything easy or obvious about it. I think they were comparable in their dominance in their shared events, with the exception of the 100 fly, which I already conceded.

As far as "not setting the WR record" in every primary stroke event...Spitz set 4/4 WR, Phelps set 4/5 + 1 OR. That is NOT "easily and obviously" better.

[JoeChalupa]

I'm just glad I got to witness, via TV or course, both Spitz and Phelps awesome performances. Go USA!!

[whottt]

Did you not bother to read (TWICE) where I said that the 200m fly was the one he swam with GOGGLES FULL OF WATER? You think MAYBE that might have made a difference? And he STILL set the WR in that race...counting strokes instead of watching where he was.

Mark Spitz didn't wear goggles:

I don't think there's anything easy or obvious about it. I think they were comparable in their dominance in their shared events, with the exception of the 100 fly, which I already conceded.

As far as "not setting the WR record" in every primary stroke event...Spitz set 4/4 WR, Phelps set 4/5 + 1 OR. That is NOT "easily and obviously" better.

To me it is...and like I said, Spitz didn't wear a swim cap and had long hair, unlike the guys he was swimming against. He was more dominant in his 4, being completely unchallenged in any of them without goggles...unlike Phelps, who was challenged in what was one of his strongest events.


I don't see much argument that Phelps is the better swimmer...the # of medals he has now pretty much hammer that point home...I just don't think this was as dominant as Spitz was in 72.

[travis2]

Mark Spitz didn't wear goggles:






To me it is...and like I said, Spitz didn't wear a swim cap and had long hair, unlike the guys he was swimming against. He was more dominant in his 4, being completely unchallenged in any of them without goggles...unlike Phelps, who was challenged in what was one of his strongest events.

Not wearing goggles and wearing goggles full of water are NOT the same thing. Not even close.

[whottt]

Sounds like Phelps should maybe lose the goggles then...why do you suppose he wears them? To give himself a disadvantage?

[travis2]

Oh puh-leeze...I know you know better than that...

[whottt]

Look we can split hairs on it all day long...

IF you look at the 3 freestyle and butterfly races, the best strokes of both swimmers, and the two strokes where they set the majority of their records, Spitz clearly beat his opponents by a larger margin of victory than Phelps did....and he did it with what could definitely be argued as a technological disadvantage, even by the standards of 1972 compared to his peers.


Phelps swam one more event...Spitz swam better, IMO.