1992 Dream team
2008 Redeem team
as i have said before, even though i cant stand him and think he is massively overrated, i think that if they had KG on this team instead of Boozer, as good as the team already is, they would be considerably better.
because it doesnt.I can't believe you guys are still arguing this point.
PG Magic Johnson/John Stockton
SG Michael Jordan/Clyde Drexler
SF Larry Bird/Scottie pippen/Chris Mullin
PF Karl Malone/Charles Barkley/(ahem)Christian Laettner
C David Robinson/Patrick Ewing
I don't know how that simple roster list doesn't answer the question!?
This comment coming from a guy who has Kobe quote's on his signature..
I understand your view, but to say they would win because of motivational factors is a bit much. Jordan is a hard compe or and he'll lay it on the floor, but we cant really say that his leadership will necessarily effect the pussiness of Odom and Gasol.
Seriously, you're like that alleged Laker fan who only comes here to talk about how great Olajuwon is in any David Robinson thread. Trolls who pretend to be fans of other teams suck.
I hate Kobe, but this team might actually be better.
That 92 team was never challenged and didn't even have to work very hard. They win this poll on name recognition alone.
But did that team play better weakside defense? Was that team better in the open court with an over the hill bird and a retired Magic?
This team is blowing out their opponents when their opponents are actually in the same breath talent wise.
Germany had an NBA MVP. Spain has Gasol, Calderon etc.
It affected the pussiness of Scottie Pippen and co. They werent out there airballing shots in a game seven, faking migraines because they were too scared of the bright lights.
I think this team is better defensively and has too much all-around athleticism for the 1992 team, especially when they start going to their bench with guys like Bird, Mullin, and Stockton. Those guys will get run out of the gym by CP3, Deron, Wade, etc... Thats why I would put my money on 2008 in a 7 game series.
Celtics are less athletic than the Lakers, yet they won. Spurs are less athletic than the Hornets, yet they won. Golden States are more athletic than every single team in the league, yet they couldn't make the playoffs. Phoenix is more athletic than every single team in the league not named GS and they lost in the first round.
Athleticism does not translate into wins.
Besides, Pippen, Jordan, Robinson, Barkley, Malone are not athletic slouches either.
Kobe's the only player on the current olympic team that would start on the 92 team...oh as per Larry Bird's most recent interview.
I still say this team wins due to players being more in their prime with relation to the 92 team. Both teams in their prime...well than 92 all the way.
Over who? SG is already taken.
Pippen, Robinson, Jordan, and Ewing are all better defenders than anyone on the 2008 team. There's no one even close to Pippen or Robinson.
I agree with every point here. But there are other intangibles that go into the reasons for their losses. The Lakers simply were not as good of a team (and i dont even know if they are any more athletic). The Hornets mentally were not ready to beat the Spurs. Golden State has a terrible playing system, plays no defense, and lacks talent. Phoenix had the same issue as Golden State, although I don' see where all that athleticism you speak of comes from. Amare? Who else? Marion was not there. Hill is not what he once was obviously. Barbosa is fast, but i wouldn't say he is a spectacular athlete in many other areas. Atlanta is a of a lot more athletic than Phoenix. Washington is more athletic.
Anyways, back to the point, yes, 2008 is more athletic. But they are also a mentally strong team, have just as much if not more talent. They have a good and balanced offensive/defensive system.
Neither team is incredibly proficient at shooting the 3 (with the exception of a couple players on each team who are/were great shooters, or not shooters at all, pretty much everyone is/was a "hot/cold" type of long-range shooter)
The 1992 has a little better post game (even though their big men were more of jump-shooting big men, similar to the 2008, as their best post player is Barkley), but the 2008 has better midrange/penetration game.
2008 also is a better defensive team and has more athleticism to spare for defensive purposes.
Correction: Robinson was a good shot blocker. I know a bunch of Spurs fans are now going to blow their chodes over this, but he was not simply a great defensive player. He was a great shotblocker.
Ewing was a shotblocker as well. Also got dunked on frequently. Soft.
I don't know...maybe SF....as he is bigger than MJ. Don't take this as my opinion but of Larry Bird...
FoxSports:
Redemption is inevitable.
Coach Mike Krzyzewski can rest easily and go back to Duke with the satisfaction of knowing that the pseudo-NBA coaching job he's done has been a rousing success.
Just as important, this young group of players can be proud of the way they have handled themselves on and off the floor.
Now it's time to get serious.
Let's compare this team, winning by an average of 32.2 points a game to the original Dream Team of 1992, a group that has a lot to do with why the players of this generation fell in love with the game in the first place.
It's hard to fathom any group being capable of shutting down the talent of the trio of Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade when they are so focused. Then again, they haven't had to deal with Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Clyde Drexler defending them. At 6-9, 260, James is astoundingly strong with athleticism, explosiveness and skill that has never been seen before.
Then again, he's never had Charles Barkley or Karl Malone staring him down either.
The reason this year's team has been so effective has been its on-the-ball pressure flustering opponents into complete collapse, with a tower of strength in the presence of Dwight Howard to dominate the boards and intimidate.
Well, Bryant, James, Wade, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd — and throw in the ultra-long Tayshaun Prince just for good measure — wouldn't faze the ballhandling ability of Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Jordan, Pippen or Drexler one iota.
Does anybody in their right mind believe Howard would have his way with David Robinson and Patrick Ewing? It would have been a great experience for him to get throttled by Robinson and Ewing, not to mention Hakeem Olajuwon, during the regular NBA season just for educational purposes.
Unquestionably, the compe ion is light years beyond what it was in 1992, when the international basketball was in its infancy, but that's not to say this year's team is that much more impressive than the Chuck Daly-coached team that won by an average of 43.8 points a game. The closest game they had in '92 was a 117-85 win in the gold medal game against Croatia.
In all fairness, Colangelo certainly would have spent more time balancing out the team with size as opposed to really putting together the best group of talent. Prince was added for defense; Carlos Boozer for some bulk, Howard to play center, and Kidd for the conscience of moving the ball. Other than that, it was a grab-bag of super-athletes.
There could not be a better designed team than the way Rod Thorn put together the 1992 roster. They had great speed and athleticism with Jordan, Drexler and Pippen — with that odd combination of strength, power and athleticism that Barkley brought to the table. Malone with Barkley and Ewing combined to be as powerful and intimidating as any front line that has ever played in the Olympics.
There has never been a better point guard at finding ways for a team to reach its potential than Johnson, and Stockton is the all-time leader in assists and steals — in many ways defining the position. And when it comes to multi-skilled players with great hands, shooting ability, basketball sense and the versatility to make everybody them better — Larry Bird (although his back rendered him helpless in the 1992 Olympics) and Chris Mullin were perfect complements. It was ironic that Christian Laettner an All-American from Duke for Krzyzewski (who was an assistant to Daly) was added gratuitously and was never more than an average NBA player.
But it wasn't as if it mattered.
The way this year's team has responded, nothing else Colangelo could have done would have made them perform at a higher level. Extending their time together has made them bond stronger and accent each other's strengths. Four years ago they weren't ready, particularly not for the incessant bickering caused by Larry Brown as coach.
Krzyzewski is much better suited to deal with the impetuous inclinations of youth that the likes of Carmelo Anthony bring to the table. His teams at Duke have been dominated by teenagers more every year.
Daly was brought in to deal with adults. As the stories would have it, there was no more intense basketball that year than the intrasquad game played in Monte Carlo with Barkley talking trash to Jordan, Daly had to stop the game at midstream for fear of what those players would have done to each other before the Olympic games would have begun.
It was never about anything else but winning with the Dream Team, other than learning what it was like to be an international rock stars and emissaries as they were. The Redeem Team has finally figured that out, too. Colangelo, Krzyzewski — along with assistants Mike D'Antoni and Nate McMillan — have helped make sure they not only want to win, but to restore the love and respect the Dream Team initially introduced to the rest of the world.
And it has worked.
The pride and reverie restored by this group can't help but bring back memories of their forefathers, so to speak. In some ways it has been a relief because nobody was quite sure how this team would handle itself.
It isn't fair to compare this team to the Dream Team that introduced a different caliber of basketball to the rest of the world, and will forever be ingrained in the annals of pop culture as the greatest team ever assembled on any number of levels.
This team has earned its own place in history for restoring our faith in this generation of basketball to erase sometimes ugly drama of the past eight years and bringing back the pride and the gold back home where it belongs.
And who did Jordan, Pippen, and Drexler have to deal with defending them? John Starks? Reggie Miller?
Let's see how those guys fare against guys like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Ben Wallace, etc... in fact, Jordan and co didnt have to deal with such high caliber athletes like Kobe, Lebron, and Wade. if you turn it one way, you gotta turn it the other. Lets see how those guys fare on both ends of the court against each other. If you had a game of 3 on 3, id put my money on Kobe/Lebron/Wade ALL ING DAY over Jordan/Pippen/Drexler.
Like Magic can play defense? Stockton was tiny as . And the Jordan, Pippen, Drexler argument was already taken care of. Fact is, both teams are going to be having trouble guarding each other. Its ridiculous how people only think that 2008 would have issues guarding 1992. I have a hard time seeing Jordan being able to physically compete with Lebron, who is athletically superior to Jordan in virtually every single way. CP3 and Deron would absolutely tear Stockton to bits, and would completely blow by Magic with ease. And if Prince can give Kobe fits, im more than positive he can give Pippen and Drexler fits.Well, Bryant, James, Wade, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd — and throw in the ultra-long Tayshaun Prince just for good measure — wouldn't faze the ballhandling ability of Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Jordan, Pippen or Drexler one iota.
No, but its not like his athleticism couldn't give them fits on both ends either. And at least hes not a soft choker like Ewing.Does anybody in their right mind believe Howard would have his way with David Robinson and Patrick Ewing?
Was speaking particularly about athleticism, and the point was to say that athleticism does not equate to wins. I also agree with the Suns, Atlanta was athletic, but barely made the playoffs in the pitiful East.
I would argue that the 92 team was much better defensively.
Let’s look at the respective rosters:
92 08
Larry Bird Carmelo Anthony
Christian Laettner Carlos Boozer
Karl Malone Chris Bosh
Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant
David Robinson Dwight Howard
Scottie Pippen LeBron James
John Stockton Chris Paul
Clyde Drexler Tayshuan Prince
Chris Mullin Michael Redd
Magic Johnson Dwayne Wade
Patrick Ewing Deron Williams
I tried to match up the players as close as possible, but 92 got one more centre, and 08 got one more PG.
Pippen was one of the best perimeter defenders ever (and he can defend the post as well), Tayshuan Prince, while good, isn’t even the best perimeter defender in the league today (Bowen and Artest).
Jordan was great defensively, not as good as Pippen, but still better than anyone on the 08 team.
Robinson will be addressed later on.
Ewing is called the Hoya Destroya for a reason, he was a dynamic low post defender, much better than Dwight Howard (athletic, little basketball defensive IQ), Carlos Boozer (no need for explanation), and Chris Bosh (ditto).
Jason Kidd and Chris Paul are not any better than Magic Johnson was on defense, while John Stockton was light years ahead of any PG on the 08 squad defensively.
Lebron James definitely has an upper hand when compared to Charles Barkley on defense.
The other guys are pretty even defensively. Basically, for every over-the-hill Larry Bird, there is a Carmelo Anthony, for every Christian Laettner, there is a Carlos Boozer.
As for midrange game, Jordan had the best mid-range game of any player, ever.
Karl Malone and Ewing are known as 18-foot shooting bigs (who can score inside of course).
Robinson’s got a great 15 foot jump shot, even though at that point in his career, he was primarily a dunker.
Larry Bird can shoot from anywhere.
Laettner, though he sucked, was as good as anyone pulling up from 18.
On the 08 squad, Kobe, Carmelo Anthony, Boozer, and Wade are the answers. I see this being pretty even, with perhaps a light advantage to the 92 squad.
On penetration, 08’s got Lebron, Kobe, Paul and Williams on the outside, but only Bosh can really handle the ball for a big man.
On the 92 squad, Jordan, Drexler, Pippen, Stockton, and Magic can all go to the hole whenever they want, while Robinson can penetrate and score with the best of them.
I am shocked you said this regarding Robinson.
You are talking about a man who was one of the best defensive bigs of all time along with Russell and Hakeem. He was named DPOY in 92, being the first player in NBA history to rank top 5 in blocks, steals and rebounds in the same season, while also ranking top 10 in points and FG%, making him the second player to rank top 10 in 5 major statistical category (the other being Larry Bird, I think).
He was named All-D 1st team 4 times, 2nd team 4 times while playing in an era of the best bunch of big men (along with Hakeem, Ewing and Shaq, and to a lesser extent Sabonis, Divac, Daughtery, Mutombo, and Mourning).
You are talking about a man, who held Shaq to 22.5 throughout a whole series during Shaq’s prime, doing it with a floating particle in his back. That is pretty darn impressive.
To say that Robinson was simply a good shot blocker and not a good defensive player is largely incorrect.
As for Ewing, he was named to All-D team three times (mostly because of Robinson and Hakeem), manned the middle for a defensive-oriented Knicks team and called the Hoya Destroya for his defensive prowess with Georgetown.
Lebron would not be on Jordan or vice versa........ Kobe and Jordan would be going at it. Lebron would be staring at Malone or Pippen probably.And who did Jordan, Pippen, and Drexler have to deal with defending them? John Starks? Reggie Miller?
Let's see how those guys fare against guys like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Ben Wallace, etc... in fact, Jordan and co didnt have to deal with such high caliber athletes like Kobe, Lebron, and Wade. if you turn it one way, you gotta turn it the other. Lets see how those guys fare on both ends of the court against each other. If you had a game of 3 on 3, id put my money on Kobe/Lebron/Wade ALL ING DAY over Jordan/Pippen/Drexler.
Like Magic can play defense? Stockton was tiny as . And the Jordan, Pippen, Drexler argument was already taken care of. Fact is, both teams are going to be having trouble guarding each other. Its ridiculous how people only think that 2008 would have issues guarding 1992. I have a hard time seeing Jordan being able to physically compete with Lebron, who is athletically superior to Jordan in virtually every single way.
No, but its not like his athleticism couldn't give them fits on both ends either. And at least hes not a soft choker like Ewing.
I ask again....you fail to answer.....HOW OLD ARE YOU? Seriously......because you sound like a young guy that probably didnt even watch basketball in the 80-90s.
ambchang..........great post man......great post.
After reading this, I really have to question whether you have seen Jordan, Pippen and Drexler in their prime. You are probably the first person to say that you would pick the Kobe/Lebron/Wade team with such conviction.And who did Jordan, Pippen, and Drexler have to deal with defending them? John Starks? Reggie Miller?
Let's see how those guys fare against guys like Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Ben Wallace, etc... in fact, Jordan and co didnt have to deal with such high caliber athletes like Kobe, Lebron, and Wade. if you turn it one way, you gotta turn it the other. Lets see how those guys fare on both ends of the court against each other. If you had a game of 3 on 3, id put my money on Kobe/Lebron/Wade ALL ING DAY over Jordan/Pippen/Drexler.
Back in the late 80’s, early 90’s, there was a bunch of great perimeter defenders such as Sidney Moncrief , the late great Dennis Johnson, Gary Payton, Dennis Rodman (inside and out), Joe Dumars, Alvin Robertson (even though he was a Spur, I think he was slightly overrated as a defender), Rodney McCray, Michael Cooper, and Maurice Cheeks. These players were every bit as good defensively as perimeter defenders are today.
Magic, though not Pippen as a defender, did play solid team defense, he is no worse than Kidd is at this stage of his career. Stockton was tough as nails, and 10x the defender Chris Paul could ever be, and is certainly better than Deron Williams. Isiah Thomas couldn’t tear Stockton to bits, so why would CP3, who was compared to Thomas last year, be able to? Tim Hardway and Kevin Johnson were ultra quick point guards, they didn’t shred Stockton to bits.
Jordan likely won’t guard Lebron, Barkley with his strength and quickness would probably get that assignment, along with Pippen, who could defend quick and strong players wouldn’t be over matched. Malone and Robinson could also provide relief.
A choker, yes, soft? Ewing battled all kinds of painful injuries in his career to carve out a HOF career, I just don’t know where you would get the idea that he was soft.
Besides, Ewing can choke all he wants, he has more than adequate replacements on his team during crunch time on the 92 squad.
After reading this absolutely ridiculous part of your paragraph, i didn't have much more to say to you, untill i read this...
Bruce Bowen is one of the best perimeter defenders the league has ever seen (IMO better than Pippen), and never won a DPOY. Tim Duncan is arguably the best defensive big-man ever, and never won a DPOY. Nuff said.I am shocked you said this regarding Robinson.
You are talking about a man who was one of the best defensive bigs of all time along with Russell and Hakeem. He was named DPOY in 92, being the first player in NBA history to rank top 5 in blocks, steals and rebounds in the same season, while also ranking top 10 in points and FG%, making him the second player to rank top 10 in 5 major statistical category (the other being Larry Bird, I think).
He was named All-D 1st team 4 times, 2nd team 4 times while playing in an era of the best bunch of big men (along with Hakeem, Ewing and Shaq, and to a lesser extent Sabonis, Divac, Daughtery, Mutombo, and Mourning).
You are talking about a man, who held Shaq to 22.5 throughout a whole series during Shaq’s prime, doing it with a floating particle in his back. That is pretty darn impressive.
To say that Robinson was simply a good shot blocker and not a good defensive player is largely incorrect.
As for Ewing, he was named to All-D team three times (mostly because of Robinson and Hakeem), manned the middle for a defensive-oriented Knicks team and called the Hoya Destroya for his defensive prowess with Georgetown.
later.
Could you explain to me how that was ridiculous?
You are saying that Kidd and CP3 are better defenders than Magic was, or are you saying that Stockton wasn't a great perimeter defender?
Tim Duncan and Bruce Bowen never got on All-D teams too? Do you know how the system works? Media picks DPoY, while coaches picks All-D teams. While media does come up with some curious selections once in a while, it would be difficult to argue that NBA coaches would get this wrong. Robinson was on 4 all-D teams, and he played in an era with Hakeem, Mourning and Mutombo.
Seriously, I am not trying to denigrate you, did you actually see any of the dream team players in 92, or even 93 and 94?
I want to know Stretches age......bet he didnt see these guys play.
You're getting a little too involved with him here.
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