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The only thing that failed the system in the case of the VT shooter is that out of political correctness, his mental illness was not reported to those who had the responsibility of screening him for buying firearms.
Yeah, apparently the leap in logic required to think someone would do all that just so they can go shoot up a school, instead of just going out and buying a gun, running down to Academy for ammo, and then heading over to the school of their choice.
The only thing that failed the system in the case of the VT shooter is that out of political correctness, his mental illness was not reported to those who had the responsibility of screening him for buying firearms.
Exactly. Not to mention, said nut doesn't know said level-headed person has a firearm, which changes the opportunity of surprise in the situation.
A level-headed person who knows how to use his weapon changes the balance of power pretty quickly over a nut just looking to blow everything away.
I already replied to this same argument here: LINK
My response was:
I didn't think of it that way. I was thinking more along the lines that a teacher gets into a divorce/separation/depression/alcohol/drug abuse at some point, and unloads on the kids. You know, like that happens all the time. How many times you heard neighbors of some dude that just went to work and massacred 20 co-workers before blowing his head off saying 'He was a really nice guy. I'm shocked he could do such a thing'.
There's 5 years between re-certification in this specific case. You're telling me people can't change in 5 years?
It does?I didn't think of it that way. I was thinking more along the lines that a teacher gets into a divorce/separation/depression/alcohol/drug abuse at some point, and unloads on the kids. You know, like that happens all the time.
How many times has someone done that?How many times you heard neighbors of some dude that just went to work and massacred 20 co-workers before blowing his head off saying 'He was a really nice guy. I'm shocked he could do such a thing'.
Actually, it had nothing to do with political correctness. It had to do with the fact that under Virginia law at the time, his condition did not warrant reporting.
The system failed completely, because federal rules DID warrant reporting at the time. Somebody just thought that if he was ok under Virginia rules, he would be ok also under Federal rules.
Here's an article describing the situation at the time:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/21/us...=1&oref=slogin
, this is just off a quick google for 'co-workers massacre':
Brother, Former Co-Workers Testify In Massacre Trial
Luna is one of two men accused in the 1993 massacre at the Brown's Chicken restaurant in Palatine, and Luna's brother painted a different picture of Luna -- a former Brown's Chicken employee -- to the jury.
...
Another former Browns employee, Kristin Apple, was also called to testify.
She described Juan Luna as a peaceful, law-abiding and well-liked employee when he worked at the Palatine restaurant.
...
And this is how the case ended:
On May 10, 2007, Juan Luna was found guilty of all seven counts of murder. He was sentenced to life in prison on May 17. All but one juror had voted for the death penalty for Luna, but in Illinois the vote must be unanimous, so Luna was spared the death penalty. Jim Degorski's trial has yet to be set, but might begin in June 2008.
Okay, that's one. The implication I got from your post is that people shoot up schools and coworkers on a pretty regular basis.
Elnono just keeps arguing with anecdotal crap instead of providing some actual substances and proof.
I only expressed that I don't personally like that ordinance. I also said that in this country there's not much you can do about that. I gave you examples where human error happens.
Do you need proof that the VT shooting happened? Don't be stupid.
You don't have to like my point of view. But I'm allowed to have my opinion just like you do.
Gotcha. To expand even further, it's really State dependent. For example, in Virginia both the Federal and State background checks are done by the local Virginia police in cooperation with State and FBI officials. Other States submit the request for backgrounds checks to the FBI directly.
We can argue about gun-free zones forever. My interpretation is that 'gun-free zones' are actually uncons utional anyways. But we all know that, at least in this country, anything goes under the 'protect the children' mantra.
I can agree with that. Just because it's basically an impossible proposition.
make teachers certified (gun-toting)peace officers and discipline will return to the USA OVERNIGHT.
I think you're overlooking part of the equation in all this. We've gone down the path of debating the screening capabilities of the CHL course. That was just one part of the condition for a teacher being allowed to carry.
The second was a crisis management course from local LE, and the final one was approval of the administration of the school. I suspect the people that work with the person every day would be able to catch a change in mood, etc. (unless they hide it very very very well and in that case nothing's going to stop him/her.
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