Sarah Palin Is NOT The Mother of Trig, but rather his Grandmother

[Mr. Body]

There are more things to worry about with Palin than the possibility that she covered up her daughter's pregnancy. Things like that fact that she is completely unqualified to be on a presidential ticket, doesn't have any interest in national security or foreign policy, and has extreme positions on social issues.

Agree. It was raised on DailyKos (a community blog) but was immediately shouted down as idle conjecture.

On her merits, she is lightweight. On the merits of the pick, McCain has a lot to answer for.

[whottt]

Here is a another progressive alternative to abortion: the mother takes responsibility for her actions, has the baby, and raises it as her own without the need to hide it from anyone.

She's 16 years old, not necessarily ready for motherhood, or an abortion. I would view this completely as a personal matter and one that doesn't contradict any of her political stances but actually confirms them.


You'd be surprised how many were raised by their grandparents thinking they were their parents..


Jack Nicholson for 1.


It's no different then adopting and not telling the child they were adopted until later in life which many people do.



I'm not saying it's what I would do personally, but I hear and see it done often enough to where it doesn't freak me out.


And it's about the daughter and babies rights.


Abortion can be extremely traumatic for some women...I don't think it's the sort of thing you put a 16 year old through, nor is motherhood if they aren't ready for it.

[Mr. Body]

Nicholson has said he was screwed up because of his family life.

[shelshor]

What day is Alex Jones putting this one on right after yet another "proof" that the World Trade Center was brought down by explosives?

[whottt]

Nicholson has said he was screwed up because of his family life.

I guess being raised by your grandparents could you up considerably....



Hmmm...

[JoeChalupa]

I think this is nothing and pure BS. I don't read thedailykos ever but this kind or crap does tend to stick to those who are gullible enough. Just like the BS put out by right-wing nuts about Obama that is 100% false and yet there are still people out there who believe it.
This is nonsense.

[Mr. Peabody]

She's 16 years old, not necessarily ready for motherhood, or an abortion. I would view this completely as a personal matter and one that doesn't contradict any of her political stances but actually confirms them.

Look, I don't believe the story is true. And even if it is, who cares? I don't. However, I don't agree with the assertion that such wouldn't raise some questions about her political stances.

If she's concocted a story to hide the fact that her daughter is pregnant, what does that say about her views on teenage pregnancy? For someone who is as staunchly pro-life as she is, it appears that she thinks that a teenage pregnancy is something so shameful that it needs to be hidden from society and yet, she strongly opposes abortion. In other words, the teenage mother should have the child, but the pregnancy is something that should be covered up.

A better course of action would have been to say, "My daughter is pregnant. It was unintended, but we're are happy to have another member in the family and we will help her in raising the child."

I just think secrecy and hiding in these situations reinforces the notion that teenage pregnancy is such a shameful act, an act so embarrassing it cannot be revealed. This is a notion that, in large part, drives young women to want abortions in the first place. It's also a large burden to lay on a young women to shame her for being pregnant, all the while, shame her into keeping the baby.

It also reinforces my opinion that many people in the "pro-life" movement are not "pro-life" but rather "pro-birth." They really could care less about the consequences of pregnancy, birth, or having a child, so long as the child is born.

But as far as this story goes and any conclusion about Palin that I derive from it, it's bull . It's not true. Plus, I read somewhere that Palin was still nursing only a few weeks ago. Can't do that without having a child first.

[whottt]

Look, I don't believe the story is true. And even if it is, who cares? I don't. However, I don't agree with the assertion that such wouldn't raise some questions about her political stances.

If she's concocted a story to hide the fact that her daughter is pregnant, what does that say about her views on teenage pregnancy? For someone who is as staunchly pro-life as she is, it appears that she thinks that a teenage pregnancy is something so shameful that it needs to be hidden from society and yet, she strongly opposes abortion. In other words, the teenage mother should have the child, but the pregnancy is something that should be covered up.

It could mean that their daughter is not ready for motherhood....and they want to be able to go to school and hang out with her friends, without a responsibility she isn't ready for yet.


If you want to make this into a teen pregnancy issue I am willing to do so....


I don't know where we'd get with it though, it'd just prove the pro-lifers get faced with the same problems as pro-choicers....and handle it a different way.

A better course of action would have been to say, "My daughter is pregnant. It was unintended, but we're are happy to have another member in the family and we will help her in raising the child."

I agree with that....that would be the best way of doing it. However raising the child as their own isn't the horrible option you make it out to be. Nor would allowing their daughter to grow up without the responsibilities of motherhood.

I just think secrecy and hiding in these situations reinforces the notion that teenage pregnancy is such a shameful act, an act so embarrassing it cannot be revealed. This is a notion that, in large part, drives young women to want abortions in the first place. It's also a large burden to lay on a young women to shame her for being pregnant, all the while, shame her into keeping the baby.

It also reinforces my opinion that many people in the "pro-life" movement are not "pro-life" but rather "pro-birth." They really could care less about the consequences of pregnancy, birth, or having a child, so long as the child is born.

That kind of an ignorant conclusion to draw based on the evidence at hand and the argument we are having.

But as far as this story goes, it's bull . Plus, I read somewhere that Palin was still nursing only a few weeks ago. Can't do that without having a child first.

Think what you wish...just do me a favor, go ask Jack Nicholson if he thinks he'd be less screwed up right now if his mother had aborted him.

[whottt]

BTW, you are not going to get much mileage out of me on this because I am a pro choice person..


Guess what, even though I am pro choice...I still like her better than anyone else in this election based on what I know...

[JoeChalupa]

I like her but I won't vote for her.

[whottt]

Well all I want Mr.Peabody(and anyone else) is prove to me that taking the child as their own is worse than having it aborted...

Because the whole implied scandal behind this is based on her abortion stance...

You know...the whole backwards religious pro-lifers thing...


So just prove to me that "lying" and saying the child is hers, and raising it as her own, is worse than her 16 year old daughter getting an abortion...


It's not...

[ChumpDumper]

Of course it's not, but lying about it is worse than telling the truth about it. That's the only real issue to me that would ever come out of any of this. Ultimately, I don't know how much of an issue it would be to me since the regular personal scandals of politicians aren't that big a deal to me.

[Mr. Peabody]

That kind of an ignorant conclusion to draw based on the evidence at hand and the argument we are having.

I admitted that there was "no evidence" of this incident occurring and therefore, any conclusions I drew from the alleged incident were BS. I said that in my final paragraph.

I do stand by my assertion that many pro-lifers are really just pro-birthers and could give a about the consequences of pregnancy outside the issue of the decision regarding whether to keep the baby.

A comprehensive review of abortion and child welfare policies in all 50 states found that states with the most restrictive abortion laws spend the least on education, on facilitating adoption and on nurturing poor children. The study's author, Jean Reith Schroedel, concludes that states with "pro-life" abortion laws "are consistent in according lower political, social and economic status to women" and "less likely than pro-choice states to provide adequate care to poor and needy children."

[Mr. Peabody]

Well all I want Mr.Peabody(and anyone else) is prove to me that taking the child as their own is worse than having it aborted...

Why should I prove that to you? I never said nor implied that. I am pro-choice, but I am against abortion. I am steadfast in my opposition to people using abortion as a means of birth control.

My point was, and it's something that I constantly argue, the problem with the pro-life movement is that it appears to ignore the realities and consequences of having a child. For example, I think the pro-life movement would benefit from putting forth more ideas of assistance to young mothers in the form of daycare, job training, etc. I think many young women get abortions because they feel they don't have the support (financial, emotional, education, etc.) in place to help them raise a child. If we can address those issues, I think the incidences of abortion will decrease.

The other point was that I don't think that ostracizing teenage mothers or shaming them is a way to encourage young women to keep their children. By hiding a pregnancy or lying about it, it reinforces the notion that pregnancy is a shameful condition.

It's an interesting debate though and truth be told, I don't think our views are all that different.

[whottt]

I admitted that there was "no evidence" of this incident occurring and therefore, any conclusions I drew from the alleged incident were BS. I said that in my final paragraph.

I do stand by my assertion that many pro-lifers are really just pro-birthers and could give a about the consequences of pregnancy outside the issue of the decision regarding whether to keep the baby.

And yet here's a woman from one of those states that just got the VP nomination...


While the former first lady and Senator from one of the most liberal states in the Union. who incidentally got a load of votes, can't get a similar nomination in her own liberal party...


What point are you trying to make?


You guys royally ed up by not giving Hillary the nomination...don't blame the Republicans for it.

I like Hillary a of a lot better than Joe Biden...any day of the week.

[Mr. Peabody]

And yet here's a woman from one of those states that just got the VP nomination...


While the former first lady and Senator from one of the most liberal states in the Union. who incidentally got a load of votes, can't get a similar nomination in her own liberal party...


What point are you trying to make?


You guys royally ed up by not giving Hillary the nomination...don't blame the Republicans for it.

I like Hillary a of a lot better than Joe Biden...any day of the week.

Wow, that's a total non sequitur!

Palin got the nomination, in large part, for two reasons:
1. She has a vagina
2. She is an ultra-conservative on social issues (creationism, no abortion in cases of rape/incest, global warming denialist, etc.)

Why is it a surprise that she would get the nomination from the Republican Party? Those positions are entirely in line with the social conservative platform.

The only surprise in her nomination is that McCain would choose her after making "experience" the key part of his opposition to Obama.

[Mr. Body]

The only surprise in her nomination is that McCain would choose her after making "experience" the key part of his opposition to Obama.

That's the big thing. The VP pick changed their campaign narrative in an instant. Hard to re-brand as late as this.

[whottt]

Why should I prove that to you? I never said nor implied that. I am pro-choice, but I am against abortion. I am steadfast in my opposition to people using abortion as a means of birth control.

My point was, and it's something that I constantly argue, the problem with the pro-life movement is that it appears to ignore the realities and consequences of having a child. For example, I think the pro-life movement would benefit from putting forth more ideas of assistance to young mothers in the form of daycare, job training, etc. I think many young women get abortions because they feel they don't have the support (financial, emotional, education, etc.) in place to help them raise a child. If we can address those issues, I think the incidences of abortion will decrease.

The other point was that I don't think that ostracizing teenage mothers or shaming them is a way to encourage young women to keep their children. By hiding a pregnancy or lying about it, it reinforces the notion that pregnancy is a shameful condition.

It's an interesting debate though and truth be told, I don't think our views are all that different.

You make some great points...however if the child isn't ready for it, and still wants to be a child, I see absolutely no problem with the parents saying they are the parents of the grandchild...

Can it lead to some ed up stuff later on in life? Yeah....but in general terms not as much for the child as aborting it would....assuming the grandparents are loving a good parents...and they are unquestionably more experienced.


Sometimes kids aren't ready to be placed in adult situations, regardless of how things "should be", and on an issue such as this...I have no problems if the parents "lie" and say the baby is their own. The baby doesn't get aborted, the teen or child resumes her teenage and childhood years.




FWIW, I agree with you that the Pro-Lifers(wanting to impose that belief on everyone) are unrealistic...but that issue, has nothing to do with this, and literally means jack to me, becuase I know it won't be overturned.


Dude...I am a guy that personally believes there are way too many people having kids and becoming parents that don't need to be having kids and becoming parents. I think in some cases, many children would have been better off aborted...and some people should be forced to take a test before being allowed to have children...



However that doesn't mean it's always true...and in general the grandparents becoming the parents thing,(whether the child knows it or not) turns out well for the child.

[whottt]

That's the big thing. The VP pick changed their campaign narrative in an instant. Hard to re-brand as late as this.

I don't think so...Obama's still the least experienced of anyone in this campaighn, and he won't be a heartbeat away from becoming President...he'll be the President.


Why are you guys attempting to equate the Democratic Presidential Nominee with the Republican Vice Presidential Nominee? Can you not see the difference?

[Mr. Peabody]

You make some great points...however if the child isn't ready for it, and still wants to be a child, I see absolutely no problem with the parents saying they are the parents of the grandchild...

I don't see a problem with it either, other than the connotation it creates, and agree that it's a much better option than abortion.

[Mr. Peabody]

Why are you guys attempting to equate the Democratic Presidential Nominee with the Republican Vice Presidential Nominee? Can you not see the difference?

I'm not equating them. I don't think they're comparable. The McCain campaign started comparing them both as a defense to Palin and as an attack on Obama. The only times I've compared them on this board is when others have said she is more qualified than Obama. I disagree with that notion, but do agree that his actual opponent is McCain.

[Mr. Peabody]

I don't think so...Obama's still the least experienced of anyone in this campaighn, and he won't be a heartbeat away from becoming President...he'll be the President.

Really?

From another thread

Let's go through their experience and compare.

Undergraduate Education
Obama - B.A. Political Science (specializing in international relations) Columbia University

Palin - B.A. Journalism University of Idaho

Post-Graduate Education
Obama - J.D. Harvard Law School, magna laude

Palin - none

Jobs Prior to Political Career
Obama - Community Organizer, Civil Rights Attorney, Professor of Cons utional Law -University of Chicago

Palin - TV Sports Reporter, Fisherman

Other Notable Non-Political Achievement
Obama - First Black Editor-in-Chief, Harvard Law Review

Palin - 2nd Place, Alaska Beauty Pageant, PG High School Basketball Team

Initial Political Office
Obama - Illinois State Senate 1997-2004

Palin - PTA, Wasilla City Council 1992-1996 (part-time), Wasilla Mayor 1997-2002

Current Political Office
Obama - United States Senator 2004-present

Palin - Governor of Alaska 2007-present

[whottt]

Wow, that's a total non sequitur!

Palin got the nomination, in large part, for two reasons:
1. She has a vagina

How classy of you...

Keep doing it...

2. She is an ultra-conservative on social issues (creationism, no abortion in cases of rape/incest, global warming denialist, etc.)



Why is it a surprise that she would get the nomination from the Republican Party? Those positions are entirely in line with the social conservative platform.

No ...but guess what, she'll still have appeal to non-idiots that don't vote entirely by party loyalty....undecided non-idiots....the ones that usually swing the vote to one party or the other.

Sometimes likeability is all you have to go on...just ask Barrack.

The only surprise in her nomination is that McCain would choose her after making "experience" the key part of his opposition to Obama.

She seems more experienced to me, Alaska is basically it's own country...plus I generally don't like lawyers. Especially Democrat Lawyers...

I worked for one for a long time, and I got to know many of them...and I have my reasons for having the opinion I do. Main one being...complete and total corruption, deciet, childishness and narcissim on a scale you could not imagine.




That said...I haven't made up my mind yet.




I cannot adequately explain to you guys how much I dislike the pick of Joe Biden as VP....I'd vote for him over Kennedy or Kerry(and only because he's not a total idiot on the Iraq War) ...and that's about it.


Seriously...Hillary was a better choice than Biden.


No one likes this guy...especially not moderate white males.


Obama is not in touch with non-selfhating white males...he just doesn't get it.

[Mr. Peabody]

I cannot adequately explain to you guys how much I dislike the pick of Joe Biden as VP....I'd vote for him over Kennedy or Kerry(and only because he's not a total idiot on the Iraq War) ...and that's about it.

Seriously...Hillary was a better choice than Biden.

No one likes this guy...especially not moderate white males.

Obama is not in touch with non-selfhating white males...he just doesn't get it.

I understand your stance on Biden. I am not a Hillary fan and absolutely detested her during the primary, but after seeing her speech at the convention, I was having second thoughts about keeping her off the ticket.

I think Hillary was left off the ticket for a couple of reasons. One, I think there are some issues out there will Bill Clinton and his Clinton Foundation that the Obama campaign was concerned about. Two, in light of the Edwards' story, I think the possibility that Bill had continued his philandering was an issue.

Finally, I think Hillary mishandled her exit from the primaries. After Obama won Wisconsin, Hillary literally had no chance of winning the primary. Yet, not only did she continue her campaign, she started making comments that McCain was more qualified than Obama. This was AFTER it was apparent that Obama was going to be the nominee. It was a hail mary on her part and it didn't work out.

[whottt]

Really?

From another thread

Yeah...so actually she's got more experience than McCain and Biden even.