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  1. #201
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I've always said this would be a very tough race for Obama to win and now with women flocking to McCain it will be a miracle and that should be of major concern to all Americans who will get more of the same Bush policies. The debates could seal it for McCain because sadly people vote for who they like and not the majority of Americans simply do not relate to the intellectual way Obama speaks.
    I'm ready to take a beating from the likes of whottt, yonivore, xray, AHF, wild cobra and others. For I know that McCain is not the answer.

  2. #202
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    I wish they'd poll NY and Cali...I want to know why McCain is going to be campaigning in both places.

  3. #203
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    I wish they'd poll NY and Cali...I want to know why McCain is going to be campaigning in both places.
    Sarah Palin is going to be in Dallas on October 3rd to fundraise at the Fairmount Hotel and then appear at on outdoors rally. Guess Texas is a threat to turn blue!

  4. #204
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    Sarah Palin is going to be in Dallas on October 3rd to fundraise at the Fairmount Hotel and then appear at on outdoors rally. Guess Texas is a threat to turn blue!
    Mooseburgers!!

  5. #205
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    I've always said this would be a very tough race for Obama to win and now with women flocking to McCain it will be a miracle and that should be of major concern to all Americans who will get more of the same Bush policies. The debates will seal it for McCain because sadly people vote for who they like and not the majority of Americans simply do not relate to the intellectual way Obama speaks.
    I'm ready to take a beating from the likes of whottt, yonivore, xray, AHF, wild cobra and others. For I know that McCain is not the answer.
    Women are not flocking to McCain. Hillary's supporters are not going to vote for a woman that is diametrically opposed to Hillary's stances on the issues. She brought the GOP base on board with McCain. That's all she's done.

  6. #206
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Women are not flocking to McCain. Hillary's supporters are not going to vote for a woman that is diametrically opposed to Hillary's stances on the issues. She brought the GOP base on board with McCain. That's all she's done.

    Then the base is much larger than anyone previously gave it credit for being.

  7. #207
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    Interestingly enough....Palin is actually lifting up the entire Republican Ticket, the Congressional races are tightening up across the country.



    It's not a convention bounce...it's the Democratic Party going after Palin like she's Bush, and the Media riding shotgun on it.

  8. #208
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    Women are not flocking to McCain. Hillary's supporters are not going to vote for a woman that is diametrically opposed to Hillary's stances on the issues. She brought the GOP base on board with McCain. That's all she's done.
    Whatever makes you feel better dude...

  9. #209
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    Interestingly enough....Palin is actually lifting up the entire Republican Ticket, the Congressional races are tightening up across the country.



    It's not a convention bounce...it's the Democratic Party going after Palin like she's Bush, and the Media riding shotgun on it.
    Palin won't know if she more like McCain and Bush until she's told. And why should she get a free pass? Cause she's a woman?

  10. #210
    Senior Member TheMadHatter's Avatar
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    The bounce McCain is seeing is from the conservative voters. Red states getting redder. They were not enthusiastic about McCain, Palin gives them hope.

    That's the reason why battleground state polls have mostly stayed the same, Independent voters have not made up their minds yet. So while the national polls may show McCain up a few percentage points, it's meaningless if he cannot get Independents to vote for him. Think back to Kerry vs. Bush at this time of the year, Kerry was always up a few percentage points in the national polls and when all was said and done it didn't matter since he couldn't carry any swing states.

    Democrats are in a much better position in swing states this year simply because they have more elected officials in office in those stats. That is PARAMOUNT to sealing a state for a candidate, having governors/senators/mayors of your party mobilizing the effort is what can make or break a state your way.

  11. #211
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  12. #212
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Palin won't know if she more like McCain and Bush until she's told. And why should she get a free pass? Cause she's a woman?

    Name another VP candidate that has received this kind of scrutiny and treatment?

    The closest politician that I can remember getting beaten up and questioned like this, is, frankly, Hillary Clinton.

    "WHY won't she just quit????"

  13. #213
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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  14. #214
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    The bounce McCain is seeing is from the conservative voters. Red states getting redder. They were not enthusiastic about McCain, Palin gives them hope.

    That's the reason why battleground state polls have mostly stayed the same, Independent voters have not made up their minds yet. So while the national polls may show McCain up a few percentage points, it's meaningless if he cannot get Independents to vote for him. Think back to Kerry vs. Bush at this time of the year, Kerry was always up a few percentage points in the national polls and when all was said and done it didn't matter since he couldn't carry any swing states.

    Democrats are in a much better position in swing states this year simply because they have more elected officials in office in those stats. That is PARAMOUNT to sealing a state for a candidate, having governors/senators/mayors of your party mobilizing the effort is what can make or break a state your way.
    Usually you are correct, but right about now, I don't know if ANY politician can help another; the populace is as close to stringing up the lot of them than I can ever remember.

  15. #215
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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  16. #216
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    Name another VP candidate that has received this kind of scrutiny and treatment?

    The closest politician that I can remember getting beaten up and questioned like this, is, frankly, Hillary Clinton.

    "WHY won't she just quit????"
    Name another VP who came out of nowhere, Dan Quayle, who the public knows very little about and who has no foreign experience. You really expect everyone just to say Thank you maam and move on?

  17. #217
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    Whatever makes you feel better dude...
    I feel just fine about the state of the race.

  18. #218
    Senior Member TheMadHatter's Avatar
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    Latest RCP polling data:

    McCain Obama
    Michigan: 47.2 45.2 Obama +2.0
    Pennsylvania: 47.3 45.0 Obama +2.3
    Colorado: 48.3 46.0 Obama +2.3
    New Mexico: 47.0 44.7 Obama +2.3

    All Obama has to do is keep his leads here and in Kerry states and he wins.

  19. #219
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    Latest RCP polling data:

    McCain Obama
    Michigan: 47.2 45.2 Obama +2.0
    Pennsylvania: 47.3 45.0 Obama +2.3
    Colorado: 48.3 46.0 Obama +2.3
    New Mexico: 47.0 44.7 Obama +2.3

    All Obama has to do is keep his leads here and in Kerry states and he wins.
    Yep. Michigan is the most vulnerable Kerry state, its biggest export at this point is young talent and brains since it's a depressed rust-belt economy. Much older voting electorate than in 2004. Plus, there are problems with the political machine in Detroit and all of Kwame Kilpatrick's issues. Lots of "Reagan Democrats" there. Still, it should stay in Obama's column.

    I think Colorado is going to be the toughest nut to crack. That state leans GOP, although not by much.

  20. #220
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    Also, "Hockey Mom" hysteria is going to steadily give way to the idea that she is not prepared for her job, ala Quayle. VPs don't win you elections. She can't win this election for McCain unless he can successfully turn this into another version of the culture wars. All she can do is help him shore up his base, which she's done a great job of. Democrats will make an emphasis of comparing her to Biden, not Obama.

  21. #221
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Also, "Hockey Mom" hysteria is going to steadily give way to the idea that she is not prepared for her job, ala Quayle. VPs don't win you elections. She can't win this election for McCain unless he can successfully turn this into another version of the culture wars. All she can do is help him shore up his base, which she's done a great job of. Democrats will make an emphasis of comparing her to Biden, not Obama.

    Quayle WON.

  22. #222
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    No, Bush Sr beat Dukakis, in a much different electoral map, and his selection of Quayle undoubtedly hurt him. It took what would have been a landslide and made it somewhat closer.

  23. #223
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    No, Bush Sr beat Dukakis, in a much different electoral map, and his selection of Quayle undoubtedly hurt him. It took what would have been a landslide and made it somewhat closer.
    Go back and look at the polls - Dukakis had an ENORMOUS lead coming out of convention.

    IMO, it is not Palin only that is helping McCain, it is the CHOICE he made for Palin, and outside the beltway, reform minded, fresh face...it shows that he doesn't just TALK change, he actually follows through.

  24. #224
    Murdering Prostitutes Findog's Avatar
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    Go back and look at the polls - Dukakis had an ENORMOUS lead coming out of convention.
    Yeah, he got a convention bounce, and his lead coming out of the convention was something like 15 points, an absurd outlier. I don't think there was ever any doubt that Bush Sr. was going to win that election. Gore had a 14-point lead coming out of LA. Which is why I'd be mightily concerned if the best McCain can do is make the race statistically dead even. It goes to show you how meaningless national polls are right now. If McCain expands his lead from dead even and +1 to up 7 or 8 points in the polls 3 weeks from now, then it's time for Obama to panic.

    IMO, it is not Palin only that is helping McCain, it is the CHOICE he made for Palin, and outside the beltway, reform minded, fresh face...it shows that he doesn't just TALK change, he actually follows through.
    Oh yeah, you're a blind partisan if you see that as anything other than a cynical sop to the right. It doesn't really matter though what you or I think. The only audience that matters is undecideds, and the kind of person who still hasn't made up his mind isn't going to do it now on the basis of a big VP splash. There's still no evidence that she's helping him do anything other than shore up his base.

  25. #225
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    You see the trend as; person is leading coming out of the polls, person loses lead, and ultimately, the election.

    I see the trend as the lowest a Republican does in the polling is right around convention time; but then people pay attention and momentum is to the right for the rest of the election.

    We'll see.

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