Should the next president know how to send an email?

[florige]

This is what it's come to for Camp Obama? Can't talk economy, international affairs, social security, etc. because he doesn't have a plan, so they have to resort to stupid attacks about whether or not McCain checks his email?

Change? Obama's just another political from the left.

He's really reaching with this one.

I will agree that was a pretty stupid attack ad to say the least. I saw that and thought wtf.....

[PixelPusher]

It is true that John McCain does not send his own e-mails. However, it is not because he doesn't know how. It is because composing e-mails requires typing, which is among the things that are very painful and/or impossible for him to do following his torture at the hands of the Viet Cong. He also cannot tie his shoes or lift his right arm above his shoulder.

C'mon, ES...you're way smarter than Jonah Goldberg.

[Wild Cobra]

If Bill Clinton sent two e-mails, that would imply he knew how to use e-mail? Right? This thread isn't led, "should the next president use e-mail," it's, "should the next president know how to use e-mail" Because that's really what we're talking about here; the knowing. I don't really care whether the next president uses e-mail or not, but I would like to think that by 2008 they'd be competent enough to use e-mail, if so inclined. Which McCain isn't. (Not that I don't think there are about a million more pertinent issues when it comes to McCain's multiple flaws)

But the thread also doesn't ask if he is competent to. It's an absolutely stupid premise. May as well ask if McCain knows the combination to the safe in the oval office.

Both are simple things that can be learned!

[balli]

Both are simple things that can be learned!

Correct, but if it's so simple, it speaks to McCain's being out of touch, that he hasn't yet learned to do something so simple and routine, by this foul year, 2008. And if I don't agree that it's an "absolutely stupid premise" I would at least admit to it as a trivial one and I wish Obama had not used this to buffer his line of attack (however briefly) in his ad. I was just mainly arguing about this and Bill Clinton for the sake of argumentation, because frankly, as an outraged leftist, I got much bigger fish to fry than McCain's computer literacy.

[Wild Cobra]

Correct, but if it's so simple, it speaks to McCain's being out of touch, that he hasn't yet learned to do something so simple and routine, by this foul year, 2008. And if I don't agree that it's an "absolutely stupid premise" I would at least admit to it as a trivial one and I wish Obama had not used this to buffer his line of attack (however briefly) in his ad. I was just mainly arguing about this and Bill Clinton for the sake of argumentation, because frankly, as an outraged leftist, I got much bigger fish to fry than McCain's computer literacy.

Well, at least point out a quote where McCain said he didn't know how. My understanding is he only said he didn't use it. That is not the same thing. My mother no longer drives at night because her eyes are starting to fail her. That doesn't mean she doesn't know how. The point about McCains hands is completely valid.

When will you lib s learn how to correctly interpret what is said?

[Mr. Peabody]

Well, at least point out a quote where McCain said he didn't know how. My understanding is he only said he didn't use it. That is not the same thing. My mother no longer drives at night because her eyes are starting to fail her. That doesn't mean she doesn't know how. The point about McCains hands is completely valid.

When will you lib s learn how to correctly interpret what is said?

Look, my view is that this is a ridiculous thread. Who gives a if McCain can't use email. Like someone else stated on this thread, as President, he'll have people doing that stuff for him because he'll be too busy to do it himself, whether he has the ability or not.

[Wild Cobra]

Look, my view is that this is a ridiculous thread. Who gives a if McCain can't use email. Like someone else stated on this thread, as President, he'll have people doing that stuff for him because he'll be too busy to do it himself, whether he has the ability or not.

Are you also Ballijuana by chance?

[florige]

Look, my view is that this is a ridiculous thread. Who gives a if McCain can't use email. Like someone else stated on this thread, as President, he'll have people doing that stuff for him because he'll be too busy to do it himself, whether he has the ability or not.

Exactly. That was a dumb ad imo.....

[balli]

Well, at least point out a quote where McCain said he didn't know how. My understanding is he only said he didn't use it. That is not the same thing. My mother no longer drives at night because her eyes are starting to fail her. That doesn't mean she doesn't know how. The point about McCains hands is completely valid.

When will you lib s learn how to correctly interpret what is said?

Like I said, I'm just in this thread for the argument, but I'm taking what is said about McCain at face value and I don't really care enough about it to go on anything other than said hearsay. If that's what he said, fine; I don't really consider it an issue either way.

What really bothered me more was homie defending McCain by saying:

A. He shouldn't use e-mail because it's easy to get caught doing stupid and/or illegal when you leave an electronic record.
and
B. Bill Clinton too!

I could have left well enough alone if your fairly decent argument was the one that was originally posted, but every time I try to get out, these stupid lines of argumentation pull me back in.

[Mr. Peabody]

Exactly. That was a dumb ad imo.....

Again....

I don't think that's the message. I think it's to reinforce the message that McCain is stuck in another era. There was some of that framing going around while the Georgia-Russia crisis was in the news. Some commentators (on the left) were arguing that McCain was still fighting the Cold War. This ad seems to try and build on that theme.

[toosmallshoes]

It doesn't matter is winning!!?!?!!?!? If McCain can't use email he is OUT OF TOUCH!

[Mr. Peabody]

It doesn't matter is winning!!?!?!!?!? If McCain can't use email he is OUT OF TOUCH!

Isn't this similar to the argument, "Obama doesn't like beer. Therefore, he's not like me and I shouldn't vote for him."?

Who cares? Since when is the ability to email necessary to govern effectively? How often do you think Obama gets to use email out on the campaign trail? He probably has an aide that organizes his Blackberry, screens his email and calls, only tells him about the most important emails, and then responds as instructed by Obama.

There are plenty of other issues to worry about.

[Yonivore]

I don't think that's the message. I think it's to reinforce the message that McCain is stuck in another era. There was some of that framing going around while the Georgia-Russia crisis was in the news. Some commentators (on the left) were arguing that McCain was still fighting the Cold War. This ad seems to try and build on that theme.

And, if that's the case, it would be wrong, Peabody.

As the ad points out, McCain "can't send an email?" That is true. But, as Jonah Goldberg explains, it's not because he doesn't know how:

The reason he doesn't send email is that he can't use a keyboard because of the relentless beatings he received from the Viet Cong in service to our country. From the Boston Globe (March 4, 2000):

McCain gets emotional at the mention of military families needing food stamps or veterans lacking health care. The outrage comes from inside: McCain's severe war injuries prevent him from combing his hair, typing on a keyboard, or tying his shoes. Friends marvel at McCain's encyclopedic knowledge of sports. He's an avid fan - Ted Williams is his hero - but he can't raise his arm above his shoulder to throw a baseball.

Obama's attack has unleashed a torrent of outrage; Glenn Reynolds has a roundup here. This excerpt from a 2000 Forbes article about McCain's pioneering web-based campaign is noteworthy:

In certain ways, McCain was a natural Web candidate. Chairman of the Senate Telecommunications Subcommittee and regarded as the U.S. Senate's savviest technologist, McCain is an inveterate devotee of email. His nightly ritual is to read his email together with his wife, Cindy. The injuries he incurred as a Vietnam POW make it painful for McCain to type. Instead, he dictates responses that his wife types on a laptop. "She's a whiz on the keyboard, and I'm so laborious," McCain admits.

I guess now we'll find out whether Barack Obama is capable of shame.

Okay, it's not the campaign-killing disaster that some G.O.P. types hope it is, but Obama's lame "can't send an email" commercial, as I think about it, sums up lots of things that are wrong with the Obama campaign.

Consider: In a single not-very-compelling ad calling McCain a clueless geezer who can't even send email, the Obama campaign managed to draw attention to his war injuries again, to show that it doesn't even know that the 2000 McCain campaign actually pioneered the insurgent Web tactics that Obama used in the 2008 primary, and to produce an ad that seems tailor-made to alienate voters more than a few years older than Obama, all without providing any actual reason to, you know, vote for Obama. That's a combination of cluelessness, sloppiness, and narcissism -- it's clear they can't conceive that McCain could have pioneered anything on the Web, and they're probably too young to actually remember the 2000 election -- that seems emblematic of where that campaign has been lately. Hubris coupled with poor execution is not a recipe for success.

at Obama

[Mr. Peabody]

And, if that's the case, it would be wrong, Peabody.

McCain has admitted that he can use a computer....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/us...nt&oref=slogin

Q: What websites if any do you look at regularly?

Mr. McCain: Brooke and Mark show me Drudge, obviously, everybody watches, for better or for worse, Drudge. Sometimes I look at Politico. Sometimes RealPolitics, sometimes.

(Mrs. McCain and Ms. Buchanan both interject: “Meagan’s blog!”)

Mr. McCain: Excuse me, Meagan’s blog. And we also look at the blogs from Michael and from you that may not be in the newspaper, that are just part of your blog.

Q: But do you go on line for yourself?

Mr. McCain: They go on for me. I am learning to get online myself, and I will have that down fairly soon, getting on myself. I don’t expect to be a great communicator, I don’t expect to set up my own blog, but I am becoming computer literate to the point where I can get the information that I need – including going to my daughter’s blog first, before anything else.

Q: Do you use a blackberry or email?

Mr. McCain: No

Mark Salter: He uses a BlackBerry, just ours.

Mr. McCain: I use the Blackberry, but I don’t e-mail, I’ve never felt the particular need to e-mail. I read e-mails all the time, but the communications that I have with my friends and staff are oral and done with my cell phone. I have the luxury of being in contact with them literally all the time. We now have a phone on the plane that is usable on the plane, so I just never really felt a need to do it. But I do – could I just say, really – I understand the impact of blogs on American politics today and political campaigns. I understand that. And I understand that something appears on one blog, can ricochet all around and get into the evening news, the front page of The New York Times. So, I do pay attention to the blogs. And I am not in any way unappreciative of the impact that they have on entire campaigns and world opinion.

No mention of injuries.

But again, why are we spending time on this? The ad, like the lipstick ad, is a dumb ad that's not going to sway informed voters.

[Yonivore]

But again, why are we spending time on this?

Because of what it reveals about Obama.

[Mr. Peabody]

Because of what it reveals about Obama.

What does calling Obama a deviant who "wants to teach kindergartners about sex before they can read" reveal about McCain? I think it's a far more serious allegation than alleging someone can't use a computer.

[Yonivore]

What does calling Obama a deviant who "wants to teach kindergartners about sex before they can read" reveal about McCain?

Did McCain call him a "deviant," or are you projecting your own opinion of what it means for someone to want to teach sex education to kindergartners?

Again, wanting to teach sex education to 5 and 6 year-olds says more about Obama than it does McCain. No, not that he's a "deviant" but that he's an "idiot."

I think it's a far more serious allegation than alleging someone can't use a computer.

Please show me where McCain called Obama a deviant.

[RandomGuy]

But the thread also doesn't ask if he is competent to. It's an absolutely stupid premise. May as well ask if McCain knows the combination to the safe in the oval office.

Both are simple things that can be learned!

Indeed. I think ES's point that typing and other things that require extended use of one's arms with manual dexterity may be the most cogent point yet.

As I said though, this one thing means little by itself, but if part of a larger pattern of an inability/unwillingness to learn new things, that would make it quite relevant.

Even you would agree that mental dexterity and the ability to absorb and assimilate new information is critical to the job.

Of course the above statement makes the tenuous assumption that you aren't a total hack. I get the sneaking su ion that if it was proven that McSame had neither, you would argue until you were blue in the face that it was irrelevant, and Hoopsfan would be right there with you.

[RandomGuy]

Did McCain call him a "deviant," or are you projecting your own opinion of what it means for someone to want to teach sex education to kindergartners?

Again, wanting to teach sex education to 5 and 6 year-olds says more about Obama than it does McCain. No, not that he's a "deviant" but that he's an "idiot."


Please show me where McCain called Obama a deviant.

the word "deviant" was obviously Mr. Peabody's as it was not quoted.

If memory serves, I think it would be a fair implication from the rest of McCain's statement what he thought of such things.

The unspoken message "Obama is a deviant" would certainly be picked up on or interpreted by, the fundies that view any such education as an anathema.

[RandomGuy]

Obama's attack has unleashed a torrent of hypocritical outrage;

Fixed.

just in case you missed this little jem...

[Yonivore]

Fixed.

just in case you missed this little jem...

Sorry, I rarely look to SpursTalk for a fair representation of the political worldview.

[Yonivore]

the word "deviant" was obviously Mr. Peabody's as it was not quoted.

If memory serves, I think it would be a fair implication from the rest of McCain's statement what he thought of such things.

The unspoken message "Obama is a deviant" would certainly be picked up on or interpreted by, the fundies that view any such education as an anathema.

So, in a sentence -- or, a yes or no (if you think you can muster it) -- was McCain trying to infer Obama was a deviant?

[RandomGuy]

Seriously.

The GOP has taken the politics of outrage to new heights.

The rather sickening "look how stupid the Democrats are, and see how much you should hate them for X and Y" speeches really erased any lingering doubts in my mind that Republicans care more about showing how bad Democrats are than about actually solving the nations problems.

[RandomGuy]

So, in a sentence -- or, a yes or no (if you think you can muster it) -- was McCain trying to infer Obama was a deviant?

That is something I can't answer definitively without seeing the whole thing in context.

I have my vague memory of his remarks to go on.

If you can help me find a link to the whole thing (and I will attempt to find it myself), I will give you an honest, straight answer.

[RandomGuy]

That is something I can't answer definitively without seeing the whole thing in context.

I have my vague memory of his remarks to go on.

If you can help me find a link to the whole thing (and I will attempt to find it myself), I will give you an honest, straight answer.

Found it. I guess we are talking about this ad:



My answer would be yes. That is the implied message.

I believe if you had asked the average self-identified christian fundamentalist the question:

"would only a deviant try to teach sex education to kindergardeners?"

the answer would probably be yes.

The inference and message to the faithful is not an unreasonable conclusion.