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Whottt is cool. Once he gets going though there's no stopping him.
There's a kind of desperation on the right to imagine that the first McCain lead of the year is permanent, even though it is 3 to 5 points at most and is within the margin of error for most of the polls and even though we haven't seen any of the debates yet, and that McCain is somehow going to do better than Bush did in 2004 in states that have been blue for 20 years even though most Americans are now wanting the Iraq War to end. They want to believe in their Party and its invulnerability, and the anger and bitterness they are going to feel if they lose the presidency is going to be even more intense than the anger they felt when Clinton won in 1992 and 1996.
The at ude about winning elections domestically is a lot like the at ude about winning in Iraq. If you ask one of these folks what we've actually won in Iraq since 2003, the first thing they tell you is that we overthrew Saddam, something that happened in the first few days. If you ask what has been gained from the ongoing occupation, they talk about reducing violence or stopping al-Qaeda, an organization that wouldn't have been in Iraq at all but for the invasion and occupation. Similarly, if you ask one of these folks what they are hoping to win with McCain as President, a man most of them hated with the same ugly fever that they have hated most liberal Democrats over the last 20 years not so long ago, they have no idea beyond that they will have won. It's like the effect of the Cowboys winning on the egos of people in North Texas.
About half of the pundits on the air are conservative spinners. It's set up that way on purpose; that's what they call "objectivity" these days. That doesn't stop the right from hating the media anyway, but when righties hear their favorite pundits, they feel a deep sense of certainty that what they are being told is the Truth. If/When Obama wins, they will be blaming the media, then they will be blaming changes in cir stances, they will be blaming McCain personally, but they won't ever blame their pundits for giving them a rosy view of the world, they won't blame their party, and they won't blame Sarah Palin, no matter what effect she ends up having on Independents.
Remember, these folks honestly believe that a majority of Americans are against all abortion, that everybody is as freaked out about the "gay agenda" as they are, that only "hippies" are having a problem with the endless Bush wars, that Muslims deserve to be tortured because they don't worship the right God. They don't pay any attention to evidence to the contrary because it is all propaganda as far as they are concerned. When you debate with such folks, there is no point to being reasonable, since there is no common ground of facts upon which to base a discussion. They embrace what they want to believe, dismiss what they choose not to believe, and imagine to this day that the Bush "victories" over Gore and Kerry were huge and convincing instead of "skin of the teeth" thin.
I actually though Hillary had a better shot at winning because she was the one who I thought wouldn't mind rolling around in the dirt with the GOP party.
He can talk with the best of them.
She didn't win the Dem nomination because she supported the war and was out of step with your basic democratic voter. whottt thinks it's because Obama gamed the caucuses.
Sweet! I think people are starting to do their digging on her.
Findog...you are not going to convince me of your opinion.
#1. I already know my opinion is more informed than yours is. I don't form a hard opinion until I'm certain of things. And I never get into a heated argument unless I am certain of my position.
#2. I've argued with you many times, and from my recollection, I've ended up being right every time.
I cannot win an argument with someone who does nothing but site leftist talking points and dismisses everything else. I am not even going to attempt it.
I say it's over.
As for the lowered approval ratings, that's because she spent the weekend getting smeared by ABC and CNN...with provable lies...the main one being that she is a creationist.
This is an outright lie, I immediately lose respect for the insight of anyone that mentions it.
When she talks that media constructed facade...which btw, totally owns you, instantly falls away...she does go straight to the people. And you can see her for what she is.
The more she talks the more popular she is going to get...outside of deliberate edited interviews to make her looks like a crazed right winger and completely ignorant on foreign policy.
You are owned by the media...100%.
She's just too partisan. There's a reason the righties like her and the liberals immediately took a disliking to her.
Actually that's what the Hillary voters think...I don't know as I wasn't following it, what I do know is that he got his ass kicked in every major blue state and won the nomination based in his performance in states he's not going to win in the general.
The Democratic Party is at war with itself my friend...not the Republican.
Furthermore, the side effect of all these Hillary voters dumping the Democratic Party, is that they are every bit the propgandists/bloggers that the lefties are coming out of that movement...they know every trick they pull, and they are against the Democrats now...so the Republicans are now going to have an internet propaganda bracn to rival the Democrats...for the first time ever.
Hide and watch.
Good lord....you're delusional.
You are not going to convince me of yours.
And yet I bet it never occurs to you that other people do their research and can come to different conclusions than you...therefore they must be "stupid" or something more sinister explains their positions.#1. I already know my opinion is more informed than yours is. I don't form a hard opinion until I'm certain of things. And I never get into a heated argument unless I am certain of my position.
We've argued before about the Iraq War, which I win by default because you're a hawk on that particular conflict...and we've argued about Jason Kidd, which I claimed right up until the moment the trade initially fell apart would be a disastrous move for the Mavericks to make. Once it fell apart, I felt the Mavericks had no choice to go through with it.#2. I've argued with you many times, and from my recollection, I've ended up being right every time.
Everyone who disagrees with you cites "leftist talking points."I cannot win an argument with someone who does nothing but site leftist talking points and dismisses everything else. I am not even going to attempt it.
And I say it's a close election that has yet to be decided. We'll find out on November 5th who is right.I say it's over.
And it couldn't possibly be because more Americans are becoming acquainted with her and don't like what they see, they are being led like sheep by the big, bad, wiberal media.As for the lowered approval ratings, that's because she spent the weekend getting smeared by ABC and CNN...with provable lies...the main one being that she is a creationist.
Palin supports allowing the discussion of creationism in public schools, but says it does not have to be part of the curriculum.This is an outright lie, I immediately lose respect for the insight of anyone that mentions it.
http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/ele...-8243554c.html
"Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."
It's Charlie Gibson's fault for asking such tough questions.The more she talks the more popular she is going to get...outside of deliberate edited interviews to make her looks like a crazed right winger and completely ignorant on foreign policy.
Todays Rasmussen Polls, last one is a Fox Poll:
Colorado
9/15 - 9/15 - McCain +2
McCain - 48%
Obama - 46%
9/07 - 9/07 - Obama +3
McCain - 46%
Obama - 49%
========================
Florida
9/15 - 9/15 - McCain +4
McCain - 49%
Obama - 44%
9/07 - 9/07 - TIED
McCain - 48%
Obama - 48%
========================
Ohio
9/15 - 9/15 - McCain +3
McCain - 48
Obama - 45
9/07 - 9/07 - McCain +7
McCain - 51%
Obama - 44%
========================
Pennsylvania
9/15 - 9/15 - TIED
McCain - 47%
Obama - 47%
9/07 - 9/07 - Obama +2
McCain - 45%
Obama - 47%
========================
Virginia
9/15 - 9/15 - TIED
McCain - 48%
Obama - 48%
9/07 - 09/07 - McCain +2
McCain - 49%
Obama - 47%
Irony.
Virginia veering towards Obama while Colorado and Pennsylvania trend away? That makes no sense.
I know the media is BS and they only are going to show you what they want to show you. They did pound Palin pretty hard over the weekend.
pics or stfu
I'm not trying to...I'm posting poll data as Manny made this thread out of a discussion we were having and mentioned me at the beginning...as such it's become the defacto poll thread on the forum.
I never try to convince anyone on the forum of my opinion, in fact I deliberately make it as hard as possible for others to agree with my opinion. It takes a great deal of openmindedness for anyone to agree with me on this forum. And that is by design.
If I was just trying to get people to agree with me I wouldn't verbally abuse people in arguments and call them idiots, dumbasses, pieces of ...etc, once we both know they're on the wrong side of the argument.
I don't do that to get them to agree with me...I do it to make it harder...just to see what they'll do.
And yet I bet it never occurs to you that other people do their research and can come to different conclusions than you...therefore they must be "stupid" or something more sinister explains their positions.
I know you're ignorant on this subject becuase you called her a creationist.
We've argued before about the Iraq War, which I win by default because you're a hawk on that particular conflict...and we've argued about Jason Kidd, which I claimed right up until the moment the trade initially fell apart would be a disastrous move for the Mavericks to make. Once it fell apart, I felt the Mavericks had no choice to go through with it.
Everyone who disagrees with you cites "leftist talking points."
Pretty much...yeah. The same exact ones, which were the first things I checked out.
About the only criticism that can be made of this woman is that she isn't as conservative as she seems...and she tends to have a ruthelsss streak with those she doesn't get along with.
Both of those are positives for me.
And I say it's a close election that has yet to be decided. We'll find out on November 5th who is right.
And it couldn't possibly be because more Americans are becoming acquainted with her and don't like what they see, they are being led like sheep by the big, bad, wiberal media.
Did you see what ABC did? Go check it out...and the CNN bio was bull too.
Palin supports allowing the discussion of creationism in public schools, but says it does not have to be part of the curriculum.
http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/ele...-8243554c.html
"Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."
Wow...did you even read the article you posted?
Damn...you just can't honest can you?
It's Charlie Gibson's fault for editing parts of her answers out, the parts that just so happened to show she is indeed a moderate.It's Charlie Gibson's fault for asking such tough questions.
Have you read the transcripts?
The fact that you don't see what was done there is alarming to me...something was done there, you just lack perception or the desire to see it.
Virginia has been all over the map...but McCain is now up more regularly and by a bigger total than Obama is.
Colorado has been truning towards McCain since Palin got the nomination...and so has Pennsylvania. And Minny...and NM, and NY, NJ, and Washington State.while Colorado and Pennsylvania trend away? That makes no sense.
Just show me one state that's been trending consistently in polls MORE in the direction of Obama since Palin was nominated...there's not one.
She supports the teaching of creationism in schools. She is a right-wing Christian. Why would she support the teaching of creationism in schools if she's not a creationist? How many non-creationists support teaching creationism in schools as part of some sort of "fairness doctrine?" It is logical to presume that at the very least she is sympathetic to creationist views. Do you deny she has publicly stated a preference for teaching creationism in schools? If she doesn't want people to think she's a creationist, then she should not publicly support teaching it.Wow...did you even read the article you posted?
Damn...you just can't honest can you?
Did you even read the article in the link you posted? Read it again if you have. There's really nothing open to interpretation there so I am confused as to why you keep getting it wrong.
And then you can go look at her record.
Whottt stop talking please.
Why are you here anyways, this election is going to be a landslide for McCain right? He's going to take NY and CA too right?
You clearly haven't followed politics for very long. Polls are pretty much meaningless this far out.
I'll just state it again. When asked if she favors teaching creationism in schools, she said yes. She went on to say that mandating teaching creationism in schools would not be part of her legislative agenda, but SHE DID say she favored teaching creationism in schools as part of some sort of "healthy debate."
It wouldn't be an issue at all for her if she had simply stated like her Democratic opponents that creationism has no business in the classroom. At the very least she is sympathetic to creationist views.
So no...you didn't read the article you posted.
Ok.
Oh yes it would be...her every utterance is an issue. Becuase the Democrats and the media want it to me.It wouldn't be an issue at all for her if she had simply stated like her Democratic opponents that creationism has no business in the classroom.
BFD...so are the jews, in fact they are more sympathetic to it than Christians are, right down to their calendar...and it come out of their part of the bible.At the very least she is sympathetic to creationist views.
PS: So is Obama.
Basically the ignorant statements by the left on creationism are going to offend every one who isn't an atheist....sooner or later.
Personally...I'm kind of sick of atheists and their bigotry and intolerance. I want someone to show me the great atheistic civilization...
Atheists think they're smart, but really they're ignorant, as ignorant and as dumb as animals...who share the same belief system.
And they've accomplished nothing in history of note.
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