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Yeah but you have to give two full bags for that.
in es man
a lot of the red cross nurses blow.
Yeah but you have to give two full bags for that.
I forget what type of blood I have. I used to donate when I got out of high school every couple months. I was told I have the rarest blood type?
Well after the third time donating, when I stood up I got light headed and threw up. I figured it was just a thing so whatever. The next time I donated, I passed out in the hallway. So I quit donating, mainly because I'd rather not pass out in the car ride to wherever I'm going. I'm 6-3 and lanky, that might be the reason I've been told, something about my weight is too low to be donating what I have. But that next time when I passed out, they only did half of what they normal is. So it made no difference to give less.
I get phone calls now and again asking me to donate, and I told them why I don't and was called selfish. Another time I said no, I got called a murderer.
I haven't specifically been told 'we need your blood to save so and so' but that's what they make me feel like. I'm already a damn organ donor, I should not feel bad for saying no to donate blood.
I'm not allowed to donate blood, because we lived in Germany for a few years in the 80s. Any idea if they're ever going to overturn that rule?
They've overturned almost everything else.
To avoid lightheadedness after donating, you should eat a snack and drink plenty of fluids before you donate (no, not beer though maybe Bud Light is ok. At least that works for me.
I have a video and much literature on all said subjects.
However here are some links related
http://www.noblood.org/
This is from the 1980s, much more up to date info available. Even at this date, thousands upon thousands of surgeries were performed successfully using no blood.
http://www.testigosdejehova.org/e/hb...article_07.htm
ShoogarBearShoogar,Part of my job involves research using HBOCs (hemoglobin-based oxygen carrying solutions). If you think they are as good as blood with "zero complications", you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I should not have said "no complications", rather that no blood and/or procudures using non blood alternatives have been used extensively successfully.
JWs have been working successfully with surgeons and hospitals for eons:
http://www.watchtower.org/e/19931122/article_01.htm
Last edited by Fabbs; 09-15-2008 at 02:35 PM.
I always have low iron and am unable to donate blood.
Oh, so this is a Jehovah's Witness argument. Wish I had known, I would have just stayed out. One shot at this and then I'm done.
Those religious tracts from the Jehovah's Witnesses are appallingly misleading. Yeah, "thousands of surgeries" have been performed where blood wasn't used. You know why? Because blood wasn't needed! That's like saying "thousands of soldiers policemen do their duties without guns, therefore we have proved they don't need guns".
Getting a transfusion would be very unusual during an appendectomy or a gall bladder removal. They purposely avoided mentioning things like people with cardiac disease, who need a higher hemoglobin to prevent angina, or gunshot wound victims, or cancer patients receving chemotherapy.
They just rehashed medical literature developed by clinical investigations over the years that has tried to determined at what point transfusions are necessary to maintain adequate tissue oxygenation. Those tracts make it sound as if surgeons are looking to transfuse blood at the first opportunity. It hasn't been accepted practice to routinely transfuse for hemoglobins greater than 10 for over a decade, and miminizing the amount of transfusions used has always been a goal. Crystalloid and colloid solutions have been used for decades when blood was not felt to be necessary (or was unavailable); they aren't any kind of new technology like those tracts try to present. However, there are specific indications for using them and they are NOT a pure subs ute for blood. Just about every author of the studies they quoted would say that the JW's twisted their words to suit their own purposes.
Oh, and you notice that NOWHERE in any of the JW's material they mention hemoglobin-based subs utes, because that would present quite a conundrum.
Look, if you're a Jehovah's Witness, fine. Everyone is en led to refuse whatever types of medical care do not fit in with their religious beliefs. But state that up front so people know where you're coming from. I have no intention of debating anything except the medical issues.
I'm not a JW, i work with them.
"That's because blood wasn't needed".
What a croc.
You do not sound sincere about this blood issue at all.
The JWs have done tons of reasearch on bloodless procedures, if you were sincerely interested i would look up the exact stats.
The JWs have adopted a position, and then they cherry-pick "facts" that support that position and ignore what doesn't support it. You haven't given any indication that you are able to read and interpret medical literature other than what has been funneled through the JW site. This isn't a scientific or medical discussion, it's a religious one, and you're welcome to it.
After doing some research, this does appear to be true for most donation centers I have considered, so I will try to donate a pint sometime in the next month or so.
So you really believe that it is a "croc" that most medical/surgical don't require administration of blood products?
It doesn't really matter what kind of exact stats you have to parrot, if you are getting your information from JW research, you are misinformed. Please try to understand that I say that as respectfully as I can.
I saw your links earlier today and didn't even bother to read when I saw where they were from. That is because, on this particular issue, I am basing my opinions on my real world experience of 13+ yrs in trauma/critical care nursing. First of all, every procedure does not require blood. And blood products are not administered frivolously; every effort is made to minimize blood loss in procedures. In severe trauma, patients are routinely autotransfused (we collect their blood directly from their wounds and give it back to them) because that's the most natural way to do it. But sometimes it isn't enough. JWs come in to trauma units all the time, and so do the elders with their lists of acceptable blood subs utes (excuse me, coconut milk?!). But what they don't seem to understand is that there are no perfect subs utes because human blood has too many components to replace easily. Mostly they push for the products that are "volume expanders" and those definitely have their place in medicine. Sure hypovolemia is the main cause of shock in trauma--so yes those products are helpful in that case only. There are no acceptible subs utes yet for blood components (cells,platelets) and most importantly clotting factors. I'm not one to disrespect anyone for their religious views, but as a health care professional, I can tell you there is nothing more frustrating than wasting precious time explaining this to the elders (the families rarely speak for themselves), while a critically ill human being lays dying in front of you for lack of proper treatment. The funny thing is, when push comes to shove and the family finally sees that death imminent, all previous beliefs fly out the window and most end up consenting to the blood products. Unfortunately, too often the damage has already been done.
Not what Shoogar posted. He attempted to say most of the procedures that JWs choose alternatives would not require blood anyways.
Why, because their stats are all from accepted sound medical sources?It doesn't really matter what kind of exact stats you have to parrot, if you are getting your information from JW research, you are misinformed. Please try to understand that I say that as respectfully as I can.
Their site quotes non witness medical authorities extensively. I can find all kinds of non witness information supporting use of non blood. Here is but one: http://www.time.com/time/reports/heroes/bloodless.htmlI saw your links earlier today and didn't even bother to read when I saw where they were from. That is because, on this particular issue, I am basing my opinions on my real world experience of 13+ yrs in trauma/critical care nursing.
Very often loss of volume is one the most important issues surrounding blood loss. The only case where volume expanders are helpful is hupovolemia? I'll ask them what the non blood med community says about that.Mostly they push for the products that are "volume expanders" and those definitely have their place in medicine. Sure hypovolemia is the main cause of shock in trauma--so yes those products are helpful in that case only.
Which is why JWs leave cell separation use up to the individual JW to decide if he wants to use it. Yeah you didn't even read their links. No wonder.There are no acceptible subs utes yet for blood components (cells,platelets) and most importantly clotting factors.
You're just making stuff up now and it is extremely disrespectful. Myself not being a JW and getting to see firsthand the lies that are fabricated against them is plain as day. Are you what they term "disfellowshipped"?The funny thing is, when push comes to shove and the family finally sees that death imminent, all previous beliefs fly out the window and most end up consenting to the blood products. Unfortunately, too often the damage has already been done.
Last edited by Fabbs; 09-16-2008 at 11:33 AM.
I bet MiamiHeat didn't see where this thread was going.
No I was raised Catholic and have never been associated with JW. The only thing I can say to your comments is that I pointed out that I am answering from my personal experiences. You may choose to believe that or not, but that is what I have personally experienced. I have no reason to make anything up, I was there. But I will apologize if I offended you, that is not what I'm about. I will never dispute the role of one's faith in their ability to cope mentally, emotionally, physically with such crisis; I genuinely meant no disrespect to the faith as a whole.Not what Shoogar posted. He attempted to say most of the procedures that JWs choose alternatives would not require blood anyways.
Why, because their stats are all from accepted sound medical sources?
Their site quotes non witness medical authorities extensively. I can find all kinds of non witness information supporting use of non blood. Here is but one: http://www.time.com/time/reports/heroes/bloodless.html
Very often loss of volume is one the most important issues surrounding blood loss. The only case where volume expanders are helpful is hupovolemia? I'll ask them what the non blood med community says about that.
Which is why JWs leave cell separation use up to the individual JW to decide if he wants to use it. Yeah you didn't even read their links. No wonder.
You're just making stuff up now and it is extremely disrespectful. Myself not being a JW and getting to see firsthand the lies that are fabricated against them is plain as day. Are you what they term "disfellowshipped"?
Sorry to hear of your horror story Miamiheat (as well as the turn this thread is taking) but I've been fortunate enough to work somewhere that has blood drives going regularly and I have to say that if there's I have yet to find an easier way to get orange juice, cookies, and a free t-shirt.
well, being that no one else picked up on it or has said anything, including me.........
HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY, MiamiHeat!!!
Exactly ... I've got 2 gallon pins already and drawer full of Go Spurs Go t-shirts and ball caps.
I've been very fortunate to never experience Nurse Ratchet when I've gone to donate. Please don't let it dissuade you from donating again in the future.
Not what Shoogar posted. He attempted to say most of the procedures that JWs choose alternatives would not require blood anyways.
Why, because their stats are all from accepted sound medical sources?
Their site quotes non witness medical authorities extensively. I can find all kinds of non witness information supporting use of non blood. Here is but one: http://www.time.com/time/reports/heroes/bloodless.html
Very often loss of volume is one the most important issues surrounding blood loss. The only case where volume expanders are helpful is hupovolemia? I'll ask them what the non blood med community says about that.
Which is why JWs leave cell separation use up to the individual JW to decide if he wants to use it. Yeah you didn't even read their links. No wonder.
You're just making stuff up now and it is extremely disrespectful. Myself not being a JW and getting to see firsthand the lies that are fabricated against them is plain as day. Are you what they term "disfellowshipped"?
As I recall, ShoogarBear is an MD...and mrsmaalox has already stated she's a trauma nurse.
What ING RIGHT do you have to claim EITHER ONE OF THEM are "just making stuff up now"?
Abe Lincoln amoung others.
See this hospital? It's called the University Hospital, the University Center for Bloodless Surgery and Medicine in New Jersey. The surgeons there are called "doctors". Many of the staff are called "nurses".
http://www.theuniversityhospital.com...etthestaff.htm
Here is another one. It's called "The Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery at Pennsylvania Hospital". They have hospitals thruout the East Coast that do bloodless surgeries. There surgeons are also called "doctors". Many of their staff are called "nurses". http://www.pennhealth.com/bloodless/management.html
Here is Jeannie Higginbotham. She as a Registered Nurse for 13 years and spent the past 10 years setting up bloodless medicine and surgery programs in a variety of University Teaching Ins utions up and down the Eastern Seaboard. http://www.conserveblood.com/
Should i post the 1000s more hospitals in both the U.S. and globally that either are completely bloodless or have a non blood surgery dept? In fact what city or town do you live in? Lets see if yours has one nearby. You could talk to the head surgeon himself about their program. He is a doctor. Of course that might not coincide with what you already believe, right?
That looks like a train wreck
Which is precisely what this thread turned into.
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