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i hear ya, plus after a team fails to win a le with a lot of talent. the FO starts making drastic and stupid moves seemingly playing themselves out of contention. (well atleast the Mavs) maybe not all teams do that. idk
Yes, I can see how Josh Smith does have talent...I also think he's just too raw now...and we don't know if he'll every dedicate the work towards increasing his skill. For now, I'd still take Odom over Josh Smith.
Hahah, just shooting the breeze talking about the other les, it's pretty boring now with not much to talk about.
Yes, I agree, 1 would be a good start.
i hear ya, plus after a team fails to win a le with a lot of talent. the FO starts making drastic and stupid moves seemingly playing themselves out of contention. (well atleast the Mavs) maybe not all teams do that. idk
In another post, you said you can't have more than 1 franchise player. You said Tony Parker isn't a franchise player because there can only be one. You are a hypocrite.
And Odom in the top 25? Are you ing serious? And Gasol and Bynum are IMO not in the top 25. It's debatable but I dont think so.
(no order):
1. Tim Duncan
2. Kevin Garnett
3. Dirk Nowitzki
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Allen Iverson
6. Carmelo Anthony
7. LeBron James
8. Dwyane Wade
9. Paul Pierce
10. Tony Parker
11. Manu Ginobili
12. Steve Nash
13. Chris Paul
14. Deron Williams
15. Yao Ming
16. Dwight Howard
17. Amare Stoudemire
18. Tracy McGrady
19. Chris Bosh
20. David West
21. Elton Brand
22. Baron Davis
23. Kevin Martin
24. Al Jefferson
25. Joe Johnson
26. Gilbert Arenas
27. Michael Redd
28. Vince Carter
Gasol is probably top 30, fits probably 25-30 on the list.
Andrew Bynum and could be top 25, but he hasnt proven it for long enough. A third of the season is definitely not enough. I wouldnt put him in the top 25 yet. Id say top 35.
And Odom is top 50. I dont even know how you can say Odom is in the top 25. There's those 28, plus Gasol and Bynum, which make it 30. Plus there's guys like:
Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala, Carlos Boozer, Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Caron Butler, Ray Allen, Kevin Durant, Jason Kidd, Jose Calderon, Josh Smith, Josh Howard....and more. And I'm forgetting a ton of people too.
Honestly Bynum is overhyped the kids is good but he's not special like lakerfans are hyping him up to be. He's a good player but not some guy whose going to be an elite center like Shaq,Dream, and I would go to say not even close to being in the league of Drob,Alonzo, Ewing. He's more of a mixture of Kevin Duckworth, Eddie Curry,Austin circa '96-'98 all rolled in one .
Who is to say what marketing forces will collude into effect again.
Lakers start to tank again or fall short of a le? Enter some foul smelling trade again.
Look at their history, how they got Kareem Alcindor, Magic, Mychael Thompson mid season for a sack of flour when a mobile 4 was exactly what they needed at the time.
Look for more b.s. to keep the Marketing Machine proffiting off their sheep.
I think you need to go back to ESL, Nhan, Kobe is the "franchise" player on the Lakers, there is no disputing that.
That's your opinion.And Odom in the top 25? Are you ing serious? And Gasol and Bynum are IMO not in the top 25. It's debatable but I dont think so.
Gasol is probably top 30, fits probably 25-30 on the list.
Andrew Bynum and could be top 25, but he hasnt proven it for long enough. A third of the season is definitely not enough. I wouldnt put him in the top 25 yet. Id say top 35.
And Odom is top 50. I dont even know how you can say Odom is in the top 25. There's those 28, plus Gasol and Bynum, which make it 30. Plus there's guys like:
Brandon Roy, Rudy Gay, Andre Iguodala, Carlos Boozer, Rasheed Wallace, Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Caron Butler, Ray Allen, Kevin Durant, Jason Kidd, Jose Calderon, Josh Smith, Josh Howard....and more. And I'm forgetting a ton of people too.
The only 20 year old Center that would have beat out Bynum's output minute by minute would have been Shaq.
Bynum will be special because he's both an excellent defender and an excellent offensive player. In addition, he has an extremely low foul rate for a 20 year old center unlike bigs like Amare, Shaq, Yao, Alonzo, etc. It normally takes a few years for big men to learn how to play without fouling. Bynum's body control and footwork is superb for a 7'1 dude, that's why he doesn't foul much.
Last edited by Allanon; 09-21-2008 at 05:24 PM.
You're about to get Pritch-slapped!
Bynum doesn't have to be Shaq for LAL to be a great team next season. You realize they went to the Finals WITHOUT him last season right? Think about that for a second.
You take a championship caliber team and ADD a guy like Bynum for free. Any player in this league that can average 13/10/2/+50%FG in under 30mpg is going to improve your team. The Lakers are good getting better. I can't say the same for the Spurs.
The Oden/Bynum battle will be great in a couple of years. But right now, Bynum has too much experience on the rookie.
Yes, that's why one of the smallest TV markets got the best power forward of all time, Tim Duncan as the #1 pick. The Lakers have been a scrub team for years now but the best they've done in the draft was a #10 pick.
Kobe Bryant is the star of this team and drafted at #13...there was no collusion in that. It was considered a dumb trade back then when Jerry West traded star Center Vlade for Kobe. Guys drafted before Kobe included: AI, Camby, Shareef, Starbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Lorenzen Wright, Kerry Kittles, Samaki Walker, Eric Dampier, Todd Fuller, VitalyVitaly Potapenko.
Have conspiracy theories all you want but everybody remembers how many times the NBA "colluded" to make the tiny-ass market Spurs the team of the new Millenium. And don't forget their co-conspirator was the tv ratings juggernaut Detroit Pistons.
If you want to talk collusion, the Spurs got the #1 draft pick in 1987 for David Robinson and then the #1 pick for Tim Duncan. Both were unanimous, no-brainer #1 picks like LeBron & Shaq.
No other team than the Spurs (in recent memory) has had 2 consensus #1 franchise player picks that I know of.
Last edited by Allanon; 09-21-2008 at 06:02 PM.
O'Neal and Webber were both pretty unanimous #1s for Orlando.
I don't think Webber was the kind of no-brainer deal a Shaq or Duncan would be. In fact, he never played a game for Orlando because he was traded right away for Penny Hardaway.
Yeah, some of it was for fun but which part are you laughing at?
ps. You haven't made any predictions on the Spurs season yet, I've been waiting to read it.
Sterns Laker love/hatred of the then best Celtics (80s prior to the Lenny Bias overdose) ensured the Spurs got the ping pongs over the Celts? Oh yes.
And i doubt David Robinson breaking his foot for a #2 pick happened.
Actually the battle won't be much now or in the future. Oden will dominate immediately. I'm sorry, but your time is over. Now.
What are you talking about, the only #1 draft pick the Lakers have gotten since the 70's was Magic. Spurs had 2 franchise #1 draft picks in 10 years. Spurs saying the Lakers (or any other team) were favored in the lottery is crazy talk at best and "the pot calling the kettle black" at worstSterns Laker love/hatred of the then best Celtics (80s prior to the Lenny Bias overdose) ensured the Spurs got the ping pongs over the Celts? Oh yes.
David Robinson's "foot fracture" was only a couple games into the season. But the Spurs mysteriously kept him out for an entire season. A fractured foot is normally a 2 month injury, max 3 months. People with surgery come back even quicker than DRob's "fractured foot"And i doubt David Robinson breaking his foot for a #2 pick happened.
Actually, David started the year on the shelf with a bad sports hernia from playing for his country for the third time in the Olympics. He returned sometime in December, and broke the foot in like his 6th game back, and was then done for the year.What are you talking about, the only #1 draft pick the Lakers have gotten since the 70's was Magic. Spurs had 2 franchise #1 draft picks in 10 years. Spurs saying the Lakers (or any other team) were favored in the lottery is crazy talk at best and "the pot calling the kettle black" at worst
David Robinson's "foot fracture" was only a couple games into the season. But the Spurs mysteriously kept him out for an entire season. A fractured foot is normally a 2 month injury, max 3 months. People with surgery come back even quicker than DRob's "fractured foot"
Thanks for clarifying that ChuckD, I didn't start watching the Spurs until the next year when Duncan joined.
As far as David Robinson, even injured in December, David Robinson could have come back in late February instead of getting shelved for the season.
LOL 6 he is not MJ and he never will be. He won't get 6 and even if he does it won't be because he was the man. He has now choked his ass off in 2 finals that MJ would have dominated.
Thanks Chuck.
Oh, he does not have to be MJ, he just needs 6 or more and people would start debating who was greater. Then he can just be Kobe. Instead of being "I want to be like Mike" they could say "Like Kobe" even though it doesn't rhyme as well.
Right now, there is no debate between MJ and Kobe. That's why no matter how much money you pay Kobe, he ain't leaving the NBA while he has a chance to beat MJ.
Everybody forgets that MJ lost 3 years in a row to the Detroit Bad Boys before finally winning a championship at age 28.He has now choked his ass off in 2 finals that MJ would have dominated.
Nobody will debate who was greater with a fully functioning brain. I know you are a huge Laker fan but come on. Kobe just got badly outplayed by Paul friggin Pierce in the finals. MJ would have destroyed Pierce. MJ in his day whipped a prime Clyde Drexler and Charles Barkely in the finals like nobody's business. MJ is more clutch, better all around and far more dominant player than Kobe could ever hope to be. MJ is 6 for 6 in NBA finals. Nobody Kobe lost too, MJ's Bulls would not have beat, sorry but it's true.
"That's why no matter how much money you pay Kobe, he ain't leaving the NBA while he has a chance to beat MJ".
He won't beat MJ nomatter what. He is already 30 years old and he has played like in 2 NBA finals. MJ will go down as the best of all time and right now Kobe is not even ahead of Magic as the best Laker ever and is behind Duncan on the all time list if you ask me.
"Everybody forgets that MJ lost 3 years in a row to the Detroit Bad Boys before finally winning a championship at age 28"
One of the most dominant defensive teams of all time in an era where physcial D was allowed on a daily basis. Those Piston teams were amazing and MJ had yet to grow up as a pro. Once he did, he destroyed the Pistons and his legacy of winning began. Kobe has already gotten as good as he going to be in my view.
All good points, there's always a great debate as to whether defense was better before as it was more physical or nowadays with zone defense allowed. And all that stuff is debateable, there have been hundreds of threads on this.
The only non-debateable part in which Kobe loses automatically is the ring count. I'm just saying ff Kobe does get 6 rings, then who is greater MJ or Kobe becomes a debateable topic. If he gets 7 or more rings, then it's a valid argument.
MJ didn't get his 4th ring until he was 33 so Kobe still has some leeway there. 6 years is a long times away so I guess we'll just have to wait 6 years to find out.
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