Reply With Quote
Look to the Political Forum for extensive fingerpointing and multiple threads on this topic. Everybody hates the bailout, but who is smart enough to say what we do or don't need to do?
Thanks Veronica. Even posting words of support helps. This thread already has 377 views which definitely helps spread the message. Thanks to Kori for allowing me to post this.
This is a very serious issue that will affect everyone whether there is a bill or not.
Look to the Political Forum for extensive fingerpointing and multiple threads on this topic. Everybody hates the bailout, but who is smart enough to say what we do or don't need to do?
That is not the point. The point is unless they can show that this will help (that the benefits will outweigh the tremendous costs) they should do nothing. There will be many imposed and unforeseen costs that could very easily end up making things worse off than if they just left the market to itself.
190 top economists that have something to gain/lose?
What else would someone propose? I mean I get it, people like to complain....but if they're not going to come up with a worthwhile idea and go on the record with it, their view is just as good as mine.
It would be worse to NOT bailout these large corporations. What's done is done....all we can do is pay the money and put party politics aside enough to make sure it never happens again!
There really is not enough appropriate fear from the general public who think they shouldn't have to pay for "x" getting them into this mess.
And one more thing: People need to stop acting like this is $700 Billion lost....it's a sunk cost that will pay for itself over time. Estimated military spending for 2008 is $717 Billion just fyi. (also interesting to note military spending in 2004 was $399 Billion)
That's right...we could nearly pay for this alone in 2 years by cutting military spending and get out of Iraq....but guess what? Obama wants to do that, but that's how they want to pay for other things like Nationalized health care. goodie.
I think it's pretty clear that if they don't do the bailout, tons of banks will collapse and the entire economy as well. This means that millions of ppl will lose their jobs.
Nobody really knows what will happen if bail out happens but at least the above will not happen immediately.
I don't really understand why ppl are protesting. There needs to be a bailout, but it needs to be a good plan, not the that was first proposed.
BBC.co.uk front page says the bail-out will be passed despite disagreements...
what the does that mean?
if congress majority does not agree on something there is no bailout. Don't need BBC to know that.
1. I didn't create this because I like to complain. Serious cons utional and economic ramifications here.
2. I proposed a general idea. It is not a solution, but there really is no solution. You don't just absolve yourself of years of cascading horrible decisions with one idea. I understand why proponents of the bailout incorporate this tactic of asking for another plan - we don't necessarily need one. Why can't we just not spend a trillion dollars on financial ins utions instead of finding different way to spend money?
3. This is what proponents certainly hope the general public thinks. Let's just put blind faith in people that contributed to/caused this problem and try again. What will happen when this money is exhausted and we face the same problems? Simply upping regulation and oversight means if that regulation indeed worked, we just lost 1 trillion to patch a mistake which rewarded the bad behavior.
Also, think of the problems with government telling companies what they can and can't pay executives. You've heard of big government, think huge now.
4. These are toxic assets. They will never reach the value they were used as collateral for. Its true the US will be able to recoup some money in the future, but it won't even be close to what they buy for (unless the plan changes and they buy for much less which for every dollar less they spend limits the effectiveness of the point of the proposal anyway). And the $700b is just a starting figure. I explain why in previous posts. Of course, this is subject to change as they revise the plan, but I don't see the premise changing.
5. You can't undermine the irresponsibility of a plan by simply pointing out an area where there was another mistake.
i meant that finally, a congress majority might agree on the bail-out...
sure. I think there will be a deal today. But I would not put money on it.
well... actually you might be forced to put money on it !!sure. I think there will be a deal today. But I would not put money on it.
I understand the desire to protest, but I do not understand the need for knee jerk reactions (KJR).
The fed asked for too much control. (KJR)
The fed asked for too much money up front. (KJR)
This thread protesting actions of the above two points which Congress already shot down. (KJR)
The desire to make this about politics instead of common sense. (KJR)
Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Republican president and a democratic congress have both been caught looking the other way while this happened and that includes Obama and McCain. Now that everyone is at fault including you and me for not getting up off the couch sooner it is time to start being more productive. The Savings and Loan crisis cost 125 billion and within a few years was paid off. This money is a loan and not a payoff. The key will be lower taxes and incentives to make the dollar spin in the years ahead. The faster the dollar spins the more income you, I and the government makes. The slower it spins the less we all make.
The issue is bigger than just the bailout. I look for the next 4 years to look very much like the Jimmy Carter years as government slows the spinning dollar. Then when enough people have had enough of ideology they will turn to someone who understands that growth must occur for the poor, middle class and rich alike. To take from one class and give to another will guarantee a stagnant dollar.
i dont live in the US anymore, and i havent been paying as much attention as i would have liked due to personal problems. Politically i consider myself center-left, and my dad is right-wing. More to the point, my dad is a retired economist, (ex-World Bank), and we were discussing the situation this morning. He doesnt like the idea of bailouts at all, but he says that now they are necessary to maintain order and that not doing the bailouts would effectively be disastrous. I'm not sure to what degree he was defending the republicans, but he was pretty serious, and he is generally the type to scoff at the doom and gloom types.
Me, I think like someone else mentioned here, that the US has way too much credit, making it easier for these kind of situations to arise. Here in Chile we are beginning to fall into the same trap of easy credit and in the end it just bites people in the ass. the banks never lose, when they should lose now and again because its a part of the risk, part of business. They all want to play the market and win, but no one accepts a loss. If a bank lends money to a high risk client (public or private), they have to eat the loss, plain and simple. Every business has to deal with lost product, be it retail, services, production, you name it. Banks that give bad loans are the ones at fault, not the people applying for the loan.
Anyway as others have stated how this turns out will have a big effect on the world economy, so good luck. we need it!
I somewhat agree but protesting isn't doing anything other than making yourself feel better. We're screwed either way.
Mc Cain is kicking Obama's ass badly on the debate... BIG TIME
Whice debate were you watching. The only issues McCain proved better to handle tonight were issues dealing with the war in iraq. But that was expected. Not only expected but he was supposedly head and shoulders above Obama when it came to those issues. But Obama did not seem as far behind as everyone believed before the debate
China's banks have received an order from their government: no more lending to American Banks.
There have been runs on banks all week long by a variety of depositers, in numbers that have been kept secret.
The government no longer has the value of the dollar at the top of their list.
That's because of a discovery worrying investors; there was an item in the small print of Hank Paulson’s rescue plan. It said that, separate to the $700bn markets rescue package, the US Treasury would plunder the Exchange Stabilization Fund – the US currency reserves, established in the 1930s – in order to pay for an insurance scheme for the money markets.
The fund’s cash is being funneled into a new scheme designed to protect money market mutual funds.
Thus, the dollar stands alone, no calvary in sight for it's plunge in value which scares off investors.
Oh, not to forget, the ripple effects on China's economy which will follow suit in about 7 to 10 months because of the same things happening in their economy that's led to our economic collapse.
give me a break... first off.. this is the spurs forum...
secondly, it's called NOISE.
Young America can't handle NOISE. Look, the govt is spending everyday. stuff you have no idea about... this is peanuts.
What does this money due to HEB, Valero, Culebra Meat Market, etc.? Exactly.. in nothing. And you know, this is the that you need that's killing you and your job.
If you invest money into the 401K, then that's your biz.. it's no different than flying to vegas and putting coins into a slot machine.
Again, NOISE... Same different day...damn, you ought to be thankful the Prez told you what a billion or trillion is going to spent on.. cuz blank checks are written everyday.
Go Spurs.
Also, if you're looking for someone to blame you can point the finger at a lot of people but don't forget our great economic President Bill Clinton. He passed legislation that put banks at a severe disadvantage for not lending to lower income households with the Community Redevelopment Act. While certainly a good cause, it obviously had a horrible impact on the financial market.
While I think Bush has ed up over 8 years, this is absolutely true.
If you invest money into the 401K, then that's your biz.. it's no different than flying to vegas and putting coins into a slot machine.
The only idiots who believe this are the ones who have jack to show for after 60 years because they didn't have the discipline to save for retirement.
I don't support the bailout because I don't think the government should be in the business of bailing out failed businesses and people that cannot stay within their means spending and credit wise.
Kris is 1000% right. We were going to have to pay the piper for the longest time and now is the time.
All the time I hear about the slowing economy I think of the invisible hand. The economy had to slow, come back, and retract at some point. Its cyclical. It had to happen. It just might happen harder than it did in the early 90s late 80s.
It's a fact. You have a 401K.... It's a gamble.. Wake the up.
The only idiots who believe this are the ones who have jack to show for after 60 years because they didn't have the discipline to save for retirement.
Obama has a plan.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
