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I keep telling my Republican friends that Obama is not like typical Democrats. He's not afraid to take the gloves off.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/14302
Finally. Some payback for the smears and lies that killed our parties chances since 2000, Palin wants to link Obama to terrorists? Well here is some karma for that claim.
Perfect time to reveal this to the public, especially during the financial crisis.
I keep telling my Republican friends that Obama is not like typical Democrats. He's not afraid to take the gloves off.
I can't believe it took this long. This last month is going to be ing ugly.
My best bet is that they wanted to spring it as an October surprise. Would be perfect for it...
Obama has had Keating 5 in his back pocket this entire time. Now that the economy is front and center it only makes sense for him to use it if McCain is going to go down the Ayers path. The end result of this will be that both attacks will cancel each other out and the race will end up exactly where it is today, Obama in the lead.
Keating 5 is a lot more damning than the Ayers association. Yeah, McCain was found not guilty by his peers, but so was OJ.
So Obama s cry when McCain runs negative ads and celebrate when Obama runs negative ads?
Got it. Gotta love partisanship.
Poor right wingers get a taste of their own medicine. Republicans are every bit the suckers Democrats are.
If you didn't know the campaign was going to turn into this, you must be new here.
I don't think Obama s are crying foul on the negative ads, I just think it's a very desperate move from the McCain camp, considering the skeletons he has in his closet also.
Had McCain NOT went to the "Obama is a terrorist" card we would never have seen these ads. That is the difference.
Unfortunately in politics today it is not enough to just dismiss what the critics say. You need to defend yourself and more importantly go after the attackers with your own attacks. We saw what happened to Kerry when he got swift boated. It's unfortunate that so many low information voters are swayed by negative attack ads, but the fact remains that negative campaigning does work.
What McCain and the GOP did not realize about Obama is that he isn't your traditional Democrat. He's one tough SOB and he's always 3-4 steps ahead of his opponent. He outwitted Hilary and he's made McCain look like a complete fool. The Chicago style politics that the GOP criticizes him for being a part of are what has made him able to withstand their attacks today.
Laughing out louded.
F I N A L L Y
F I NA L LY
in case you did not get what I am trying to say
Like I said, this was always Obama's Ace....I wanted him to pull it in the debate but he played the tin man.......This may just go down as one of the ultimate scoffs in the history of campaigning mankind for a democrat if it works.FINALLY
I was calling for McCain to get scoffed for this back in the primary seasons and have been eagerly waiting and waiting for Obama to take the gauntlets off and start BURNING McCain with this now that we are in a financial meltdown.
L--O--L
omg
the more i read about this the more i am convinced that the Obama Campaign always intended to use this against McCain, but was biding the time until the time was right.
If only Mouse had not sold out and still had his nuclear explosion photoshops.....McCain's campaign is
(insert mouse nuclear explosion pic here)
OVER.
You don't think Democrats remember the swiftboat ads? You don't think that Democrats remember Kerry sitting on his hands hoping they'd go away and taking hit after hit after hit in the polls?
I personally wish the campaign hadn't gone int his direction for either side. I think its pointless and sad that it comes down to this, but that being said I think there is a lot more to McCain's mess than there is to Obama's.
In the end I don't care one way or another. McCain's not going to win by going negative and I'm glad Obama isn't going to take it lying down. Its not enough to point out how full of the other side is. At this point, when you get punched in the mouth it doesn't do you any good to try to point out the other guy is an asshole. Dont' bother and just throw punches of your own.
In any event, you'll always see the hard line supporters of each side love these ads. But while the base will go rah rah over them, they do not really do much to convince the undecideds. The undecideds are the ones that want to love everyone and thats why they have a hard time picking a side. These kind of ads just turn them off.
In any event its clear McCain is reaching desperation.
It's like when timvp plays basketball and keeps locking down every single player he goes against and busting constant threes in their faces. Eventually those players will at least attempt to play D and hit threes of their own.
Welllllllp. I always knew eventually Obama would take the gloves off, and kill this notion he stood for a different kind of politics. Looks like, yet again, Manny was (you guessed it)
W-R-O-N-G.
Last edited by LaMarcus Bryant; 10-06-2008 at 02:02 AM. Reason: just givin you a hard time brah
The repubs, like their fellowman TPark, are the type who can dish it first and dish it fast but once it's thrown back at them they call foul and ask for the adults to stop it or they're taking their ball and leaving!
Last edited by Buddy Holly; 10-06-2008 at 02:13 AM.
tpark is like that fat guy from abbott and costello meet the mummy
I liked your entire post until here. Most independents I know are the ones trying to pick a side they hate least, when each party keeps giving convincing arguments as to why they're the ones the voter should despise.
I'm still independent cuz Jive couldn't afford me.
I say in any event too much.
True. Actually, even more so. Although that's why the Democrats haven't won a 1 v 1 first term election in over 30 years.
Obviously it was. The Democrats weren't going to sit idly by and watch another choke job.
Go read the other thread about McCain going to all attack ads.
LOL. The kindergarten "he started it" take?
True. Which is why I've been advocating for the Obama camp to remain crafty and not go into choke mode.
Yeah, I'm not sure if waiting was the right move or if he should have gone for the kill earlier. We'll find out.
Yeah I'm pretty sure this was planned. Although you'll have Obama s saying that it's only in retaliation or whatever their excuse is.
Obama s like to turn emo when Obama is getting attacked and when hardball is being played. My issue is that if you are going to be emo about hardball, it can't just be one-sided emo. No wiping off the makeup and going for the bandaids when hardball is played in your favor.
As someone who will be voting for Obama, the only aspect of this I don't like is that it shows a smidgen of desperation. If Obama was coasting to an easy victory like Obama s would have you believe, he wouldn't need to change his tune.
That said, I believe it was the correct move. McCain has a whole host of skeletons in his closet that should be exposed.
Link to a repub in this thread whining about attack ads? Link to a thread of a dem not whining about attack ads?
Thanks in advance.
A+ for the content, C- that it belonged to Lil Flip.
Yeah, the Democrats better remember. I'm tired of the Democrats whining about how unfair they've been treated. Man up and fight back.
Which is what Obama looks like he's doing
Has their been an election in history that hasn't used negative ads? Politics is a dirty game. You can't be afraid to have get a little dirt under the fingernails. Perot isn't always going to be available to save the day.
Exactly. But why be against it in the first place? You wanted Obama to win a clean fight? When was the last clean presidential election?
I'm going to have to disagree. Neither side would be running attack ads if their focus groups didn't indicate that they could affect the undecideds. Targeting ads solely to your hardcore supporters makes no sense and I'm going to trust that these billion dollar operations know what they are doing ... at least to some degree.
True but how is that a take in a thread about Obama starting a payback negative ad campaign?
I disagree at this point. And you better not label me as an obama guzzler because that I am not. I think its a simple -for-tat strategy.
If McCain drops the negative by tuesday, Obama will drop it. If McCain keeps calling Obama a terrorist supporter, Obama's McCain ads will all but call McCain an insider involved in our current financial crisis.
But
I can totally envision a scenario where the democrats use this Ace wrongly, and end up alienating more people than they would like.
AND
I don't get it are you scoffing me for stealing lil flip or scoffing lil flip himself? I posted that in full confidence someone would recognize it...
My point is that if this election were as over as many Obama supporters would have us believe, there would be no need to even employ a -for-tat strategy. If McCain were simply desperate and had no chance of catching Obama, why even respond to his strategy shift?
Eh, doubt it. Attack ads work great against McCain ... just ask of W. Attack ads usually only backfire if it the audience starts feeling compassion for the one being attacked. McCain has been around the block too many times to get the compassion vote.
Palin, on the other hand, is the one not to attack. Although it seems the Democrats have figured that out.
The scoff was aimed at Lil Flip. He's gone way down hill ever since his Lucky Charms days . . .
Well its not over. I think that things are about as great as can be for Obama right now, but the fact is there is another month to go.
But more importantly, winning an election is important by how badly you win is also important. Remember Bush declaring his so called mandate in 04 when he barely carried the popular vote? It also allows you to make in roads to turning other regions for your party. I see a lot of that happening in Texas. Obama has offices here and is running a campaign here even though they have no realistic shot of winning this state, but thats because they're setting it up for future elections. And lets not forget about downticket elections also. Lots of GOP reps in MI are really pissed at McCain for pulling out because even if he wasn't going to carry the state his advertising and campaigning in their areas would help them out. Now with that gone they're pretty ing scared.
So while if the election was held tomorrow Obama would win easily, there are reasons to keep the campaign going as strong as possible and to continue making the right decisions at every opportunity.
If you don't think the race is over, you can go ahead and pat yourself on the back and rest assured you are not an Obama .
That reasoning is a stretch to justify attack ads. I agree with your point 100% in general but in the context of Obama opening up the attack ads vault, I don't think those two things connect.
Attack ads have a short shelf life. On top of that, it opens up the door for more attack ads from the opposition down the line. Winning clean and thus rallying the American people would be a better long-term strategy. But the Obama camp can't really worry about a long-term strategy right now. They have to get him elected by any means necessary.
Taking the gloves off is the absolute right move for Obama to win the election. That said, the Democrats should realize that the Republican response will be more powerful down the line. Especially because the Republicans are much more experienced and more accomplished when it comes to no holds barred fighting.
So the attack ads are simply the "right decision"? I actually think that they are but if they can simply be regarded as the "right decision", how is it fair to label McCain's attack ads as something other than the "right decision"?
Both camps are doing what they have to do to get their guy elected. Supporters of both sides should recognize that. It's just lame that the Obama s get all emo and call out McCain for attack ads and then turn around and celebrate when their man does the same thing while justifying his motives.
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