The Manu Doesn't Believe in God Thread

[remingtonbo2001]

I'll give you one concrete example that has nothing to do with fornication or drinking... Take a person who is not fertile enough to conceive a child by his own means, but could go the route of IVF in order to have one or more children and enjoy having a family. But the church does not allow that, and a religious person would rather save his little parcel in heaven than to experience the joy of having a family. How about a raped woman, who does not want to conceive the child of her abuser? That's another example. How about those who got married, and then realized they made a mistake?
There are many, many topics that religious people struggle with. Some of them end up losing their beliefs over it.

The Church may/may not allow something.

Which is of greater importance, the Word of God, or the doctrine of a church?

As DPG concluded, it isn't about commiting a forbidden act. With Christianity, it's accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It's a commitment to the teachings of Jesus. It's the admission that as humans, we are born in sin, but through Christ we are forgiven of our sins.

[Shastafarian]

I'm still wondering what his point is.

Only intelligent beings can comprehend god therefore god must exist? Is that what you're saying moron?

[tp2021]

[tp2021]

[ElNono]

No not at all. That is the difference between believing and not believing. Either you really believe or you do not. If you do, you are not damned, you can ask for forgiveness. If you do not, there is nothing to forgive. I was purely saying at the most basic level, if you look at believers vs non-believers believers have no risk (if they are wrong). I do not feel that if you are a believer and you could theoretically die and consciously see there is no God, that you would have said "damn, I should of done this, this and this". Also, whether you believe or not, the principles (for the most part) are universally good to follow and would increase the happiness on earth between people whether you are a believer or not.

I think church puts unrealistic bounds on certain items. Notice that I said church. I know plenty people that would have no problem doing IVF, yet be believers and think they did nothing wrong. Same with accepting sexuals as just another normal human being.
I agree that certain values in Christianity are universally good. But I don't think they're exclusive to Christianity. I think you can be good, be happy, and make other people happy without necessarily having to believe in god.

[DPG21920]

I think church puts unrealistic bounds on certain items. Notice that I said church. I know plenty people that would have no problem doing IVF, yet be believers and think they did nothing wrong. Same with accepting sexuals as just another normal human being.
I agree that certain values in Christianity are universally good. But I don't think they're exclusive to Christianity. I think you can be good, be happy, and make other people happy without necessarily having to believe in god.

I agree and I would rather someone renounce God and live by good principles rather than someone say I believe and act like a jerk.

[Shastafarian]

I agree and I would rather someone renounce God and live by good principles rather than someone say I believe and act like a jerk.

Man that sounds like someone familiar. I can't put my finger on it....

[ElNono]

The Church may/may not allow something.

Which is of greater importance, the Word of God, or the doctrine of a church?

This I agree with. Exactly what I just posted to DPG.

As DPG concluded, it isn't about commiting a forbidden act. With Christianity, it's accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It's a commitment to the teachings of Jesus. It's the admission that as humans, we are born in sin, but through Christ we are forgiven of our sins.

This is where religion lost me...

[DPG21920]

Man that sounds like someone familiar. I can't put my finger on it....

?

[Shastafarian]

?

Not you if that's what you're thinking. I was alluding to whottt.

[ElNono]

But nontheless...the less primitive the guy, the greater his mental capacity, the greater the chance he'd believe you. The more things he was aware of...the greater the chance he'd believe you.

I mean you tell that story to a rock or a vegetable you will get no response, you tell it to an infant, a horse, a feral child, they will not understand you, you tell it to a primitive man, he may or may not understand you but there's a chance he would, you tell that story to man with the most basic knowledge of propulsion, like say someone who had seen bottle rockets. there'd be a greater chance he'd believe you...you tell it to a man who has lived in a village or town with say electricity, again he might not believe you but chances are he'd believe you...

FAIL. The odds of somebody believing your story are exactly the same on all cases, because it's equally unknown for all of them. There's actually no proof whatsoever, other than another of your 'hunch' that it would be otherwise.

Well being a skeptic isn't being an atheist...it's being agnostic. By your own definition...being an atheist is chosing not to believe. You say it's a choice...but again by your own words, you have no choice but to believe in something you know exists. That doesn't sound like a choice to me.

He said people could be skeptic. People can also chose not to believe the story period.

So basically you can't believe in something you don't know exists, even though every branch of humanity, every civilization, from every corner of the globe independly concluded that things of such nature do indeed exist, that great civilizations have been built upon those beliefs?

Hordes of flies fly around every day, does that mean we need to plaster all over ourselves?

Simply put...you don't know it exists, so you can't believe it exists....how is that different from a horse again?

Changing his words again. He said he can believe if he wanted to. He choses not to.

[baseline bum]

Well being a skeptic isn't being an atheist...it's being agnostic. By your own definition...being an atheist is chosing not to believe. You say it's a choice...but again by your own words, you have no choice but to believe in something you know exists. That doesn't sound like a choice to me.

Almost any atheist is technically an agnostic. I would believe in the supernatural if there was any real evidence for it, but there isn't and I don't.

So basically you can't believe in something you don't know exists, even though every branch of humanity, every civilization, from every corner of the globe independly concluded that things of such nature do indeed exist, that great civilizations have been built upon those beliefs?

Christian laws came about because people have evolved moreso to cooperate with instead of destroying each other, just like the chimps we're descended from. Religious laws came from our evolved morality; not the other way around. Natural selection is way more of a factor in having civilized society than are the 10 Commandments or any religious text. Lots of species of animals cooperate despite not having the mental capacity to conceive of the idea of religion.

Simply put...you don't know it exists, so you can't believe it exists....how is that different from a horse again?

Being an atheist isn't about being 100% sure. It's about doubting an explanation that has insufficient evidence to make it reasonably believable.

Is it ridiculous to say there is no microscopic teapot orbiting the sun just because we don't have a telescope that could see something so small that is so far away to answer the question in the affirmative or negative?

[baseline bum]

It's the admission that as humans, we are born in sin

This is also one of the main reasons I stopped being a Catholic. A story that tells me humans are evil because they ate from the Tree of Knowledge is pretty ridiculous. I have that original sin because I want knowledge too? Bull .

[Shastafarian]

This is also one of the main reasons I stopped being a Catholic. A story that tells me humans are evil because they ate from the Tree of Knowledge is pretty ridiculous. I have that original sin because I want knowledge too? Bull .

You forgot the talking snake. Which makes me wonder. For the people who believe the bible to be 100% true, how do you guys explain that one? God just took away the biological features necessary for speech and cognition from snakes?

[xtremesteven33]

Philosophy is great, it just stinks we are finite.

[xtremesteven33]

You forgot the talking snake. Which makes me wonder. For the people who believe the bible to be 100% true, how do you guys explain that one? God just took away the biological features necessary for speech and cognition from snakes?

The Bible refers to the snake as a normal animal at first. Then God curses the snake for letting itself be used by Lucifer so he curses it that it should travel on its belly for now on.

It sounds illogical, but there have been stories about demon possession unto animals before.

Its like i tell a friend of mine. If you want to find out Truth.....get out of San Antonio.

[baseline bum]

You forgot the talking snake. Which makes me wonder. For the people who believe the bible to be 100% true, how do you guys explain that one? God just took away the biological features necessary for speech and cognition from snakes?

I don't think many Christians believe Genesis is a literal account.

[Shastafarian]

I don't think many Christians believe Genesis is a literal account.

No I know. But some people do. I wasn't really seeking an answer. More rhetorical than anything.

[xtremesteven33]

I don't think many Christians believe Genesis is a literal account.

Many "Christians" dont know what to believe. Its pathetic. Im a Christian and i can defend my faith. Im not one of those people who just say "I believe, now go away"

im willing to discuss and debate. Im just not so willing to do it over the CPU for hours.

[Shastafarian]

The Bible refers to the snake as a normal animal at first. Then God curses the snake for letting itself be used by Lucifer so he curses it that it should travel on its belly for now on.

It sounds illogical, but there have been stories about demon possession unto animals before.

Its like i tell a friend of mine. If you want to find out Truth.....get out of San Antonio.

Well there is actual truth to snakes having limbs in their history but it sounds like you're confirming what I believed.

[xtremesteven33]

Well there is actual truth to snakes having limbs in their history but it sounds like you're confirming what I believed.

Although i dont believe it took billions of years to happen.....if Evolution were true.....the earth would not be able to contain a population that never stopped multiplying for billions of years.....think about it.

[Shastafarian]

Although i dont believe it took billions of years to happen.....if Evolution were true.....the earth would not be able to contain a population that never stopped multiplying for billions of years.....think about it.

Huh?

[tp2021]

Although i dont believe it took billions of years to happen.....if Evolution were true.....the earth would not be able to contain a population that never stopped multiplying for billions of years.....think about it.

They die.

[tp2021]

I think this is a really good lecture about evolution. I was able to watch it on my PC, but not on my Mac. You have to download a program, but I think the intellectual gain is worth it.

http://www.esi.utexas.edu/outreach/ols/lectures/Miller/

[angel_luv]

Which is of greater importance, the Word of God, or the doctrine of a church?

With Christianity, it's accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It's a commitment to the teachings of Jesus. It's the admission that as humans, we are born in sin, but through Christ we are forgiven of our sins.