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So you believe a few thousand years ago a snake spoke?
I know it is literal.
In the Bible, when something is figurative, it is identifed as such with a " like" or " as".
Genesis plainly states " God created" " God spoke" , " The serpent said" etc.
So you believe a few thousand years ago a snake spoke?
Ok, but I'd be shocked if the majority of Christians believe it is.
I know the snake spoke. I don't understand how, but God is truthful so I believe it occurred just as He said.
Also, many years after the serpent spoke to Eve in the garden, a donkey spoke to Baalam, and saved Balaam's life.
Numbers 22: 21- 35 -
Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the princes of Moab.
But God was very angry when he went, and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him.
When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, she turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat her to get her back on the road.
Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path between two vineyards, with walls on both sides.
When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam's foot against it. So he beat her again.
Then the angel of the LORD moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left.
When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat her with his staff.
Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?"
Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now."
The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?"
"No," he said.
Then the LORD opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown.
The angel of the LORD asked him, "Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me.
The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If she had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared her."
Balaam said to the angel of the LORD, "I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me. Now if you are displeased, I will go back."
The angel of the LORD said to Balaam, "Go with the men, but speak only what I tell you." So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
Just curious but why do you believe these things? I mean that in a philosophical sense.
i wonder if people realize how crazy they sound sometimes.
People will always sound crazy no matter what side you stand on. Christians think Atheists sound crazy and vice versa. But what is TRUTH??
that is the question.
Jesus said "I am the Truth"
If you honestly search for Truth you will find it. I guarantee it. Me and my friend were both atheists at one point. My friend used to get a kick out of contradicting the Bible and making fun of the logic of Christians. Until we started to put away our opinion of Truth and actually searched the scriptures and read it for ourselves and opened up our hearts to it, then it all began to make sense.
Its easy to be a skeptic. theres nothing to carry. nothing to lose. right?
Truth is there people whether you like to admit it or not. Our goal in life is to find it. AT all costs.....
Reading the bible is what brought me to the truth. I was a Catholic until then.
Then honestly, that is their bad.
I believe them because I have accepted Jesus and believe that His Word
( the Bible) is true.
2 Timothy 3:1-17-
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
Also, I have experienced a real life blessing every time I obey the Word of God.
For example, every time I he money is somehow returned to me- be it through a promotion and raise or an unexpected gift, I always get back more than I give out.
God promises that will be the case.
Malachi 3:10 - Bring the whole he into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
1 John 2:27-28 -As for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as His anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in Him.
And now, dear children, continue in Him, so that when He appears we may be confident and unashamed before Him at his coming.
Angel if you had to advise Manu and his two options were to be happy and atheist or slightly less happy and a devout Christian, which road would you tell him to take?
Thanks.
This is one of my favorite Bible passages.
These are the sentences with which John, one of Jesus disciples, concludes the Gospel of John- John's testament of his time with Jesus.
John 21:24-25-
This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written
That's not how you do it, timvp...
Angel, is Manu going to burn in after he dies?
Dude...it takes a of a lot more intelligence to prove or disprove the existence of of something than it does to conceive of it...or believe in it.
It's been 20 years since I took any astronomy classes but the last time I checked, we still haven't proven any theory of the origin of the Universe...
Does that mean there isn't one?
And that reminds me...20 years ago in an Astronomy course I had a debate with Professor that there must be something like a black hole at the center of galaxies...
He asked what my reasoning was and I said...because the spiral galaxies look exactly like the swirls in water when you drain the bathtub....
sidenote: and please don't even attempt to claim that doesn't sound like something I would think of
Needless to say my IMO, brilliant theory was met with a great deal of amusment by my classmates, as well as my Prof, at that point my Prof asked me if I could come up with any sort of test to prove my theory...to which I responded, no, I don't have enough knowledge to come up with anything to test that...I just know what they look like, why would they look so similar unless there were similar principles behind both of them?
Lo and behold, now it's a commonly accepted theory:
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/l...e/smblack.html
Doesn't take a genius to think a man can fly, but it just about does to prove he can. I imagine man has conceived of man flying since just about the first time he saw a bird doing it...took millenia from that point to finally prove it could be done.
That doesn't mean the first guy who thought we could do it was stupid...on the contrary, he was right.
What about gravity? Prior to Newton, pretty much even the biggest asshats knew if you jumped out of a tree you'd go down..eveyrone knew it existed...proving it was another matter entirely.
What you have here is a similar conception in terms of simplicity...but an even more difficult one to prove, it stands to reason it will be the very last thing we prove...we will have to have all encompassing near godlike intellect, knowledge, and understanding of everything to prove that.
Be patient...that one is going to take a while.
But the evidence is all over the place man...take a look at our history sometime...any of it, anywhere. You will see the conception of higher life forms and planes of existence everywhere...often with similar themes arising totally independent of one another.
Christian laws came about because people have evolved moreso to cooperate with instead of destroying each other, just like the chimps we're descended from. Religious laws came from our evolved morality; not the other way around. Natural selection is way more of a factor in having civilized society than are the 10 Commandments or any religious text. Lots of species of animals cooperate despite not having the mental capacity to conceive of the idea of religion.
What Christian Laws do you speak of?
IF you are talking about the 10 commandments these basic themes pre-date Christianity and Judaism and are not unique to the Abrahamic Religions...or even the Dharmic. They are ancient...pre-dating all current organized schools of religion. Advanced civilizations with similar laws to our own existed thousands of years before Christianity...built around similar rules.
Well we've gotten into this debate before...Being an atheist isn't about being 100% sure. It's about doubting an explanation that has insufficient evidence to make it reasonably believable.
Let's look at the bible...the bible says if man saw god he would not be comprehend what he was seeing.
This could easily be a being from another dimension a higher plane of existence, one who looks at us similar to the way we look at figures in a painting....
Now I ask you...how would the figures in that painting perceive us...
We can't comprehend looking out from a simpler dimension than our own into our own, how in the can we perceive of one more complex?
Long long way to go on this one....
We'd have to do that before we can prove jack ...
Extra dimensional is they key word here...
Our imagination works two ways...one is to tame or understand, laws of nature that already exist, the other one is the creation of things that don't.Is it ridiculous to say there is no microscopic teapot orbiting the sun just because we don't have a telescope that could see something so small that is so far away to answer the question in the affirmative or negative?
There is scant little born in our minds that doesn't or can't exist...
Not even Xylus purple figure...could be just around the corner with genetics.
Or let's look at a cellphone....cutting edge tech...in a way, but the frequencies it uses are not of our invention, indeed, they are ancient beyond all comprehension.
My laws:
#1. There's always something bigger, smarter, faster, etc. And if there isn't yet...there will be. Of course there's something bigger...higher. And it stands to reason that if we can create so can we be created. If we create so many things...who's to say nothing else can? That's a ludicrous notion.
#2. No dominant bigman will win an NBA championship without 3 point shooters who can hit their open shots.
Last edited by whottt; 10-13-2008 at 11:55 PM.
i guess these guys are all crazy then huh?
Dude...it takes a of a lot more intelligence to prove or disprove the existence of of something than it does to conceive of it...or believe in it.
It's been 20 years since I took any astronomy classes but the last time I checked, we still haven't proven any theory of the origin of the Universe...
Does that mean there isn't one?
And that reminds me...20 years ago in an Astronomy course I had a debate with Professor that there must be something like a black hole at the center of galaxies...
He asked what my reasoning was and I said...because the spiral galaxies look exactly like the swirls in water when you drain the bathtub....
sidenote: and please don't even attempt to claim that doesn't sound like something I would think of
Needless to say my IMO, brilliant theory was met with a great deal of amusment by my classmates, as well as my Prof, at that point my Prof asked me if I could come up with any sort of test to prove my theory...to which I responded, no, I don't have enough knowledge to come up with anything to test that...I just know what they look like, why would they look so similar unless there were similar principles behind both of them?
Lo and behold, now it's a commonly accepted theory:
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/l...e/smblack.html
Oh man...this one takes the cake. Our very own SpursTalk poster thought of Supermassive Black Holes. I'm gonna go nominate you for the ing Nobel Prize in Physics (not Astronomy you ).
Those men were mostly, if not all, secularists.i guess these guys are all crazy then huh?
Brilliant people can still be wrong on a lot of things. Aristotle is one of the greatest geniuses to ever live, many of the major things he argued turned out false.i guess these guys are all crazy then huh?
George Washington quotes:
A Portion of George Washington's personal prayers:
“O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.”
“ I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.”
"Make me to know what is acceptable in Thy sight, and therein to delight, open the eyes of my understanding, and help me thoroughly to examine myself concerning my knowledge, faith, and repentance, increase my faith, and direct me to the true object, Jesus Christ the Way, the Truth, and the Life, ..."
[from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752]
http://www.eadshome.com/GeorgeWashington.htm
John Adams and John Han :
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Cons ution as a whale goes through a net. Our Cons ution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean ." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |
.......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context!
Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]
John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61
Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Cons utional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Cons utional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."
Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Cons utional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Cons ution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Cons utional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”
On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Cons ution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Cons utional Convention]
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
John Han :
• “In cir stances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”
John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.
“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]
Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
Samuel Johnston:
• “It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]
James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”
“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political ins utions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]
• I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.
Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)
• In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible.
“ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress
“It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.”
• A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven. [Letter by Madison to William Bradford [urging him to make sure of his own salvation] November 9, 1772]
At the Cons utional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
[Baron Charles Montesquieu, wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]
James McHenry – Signer of the Cons ution
Public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and cons utions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our ins utions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.
Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."
John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg
In a sermon delivered to his Virginia congregation on Jan. 21, 1776, he preached from Ecclesiastes 3.
Arriving at verse 8, which declares that there is a time of war and a time of peace, Muhlenberg noted that this surely was not the time of peace; this was the time of war. Concluding with a prayer, and while standing in full view of the congregation, he removed his clerical robes to reveal that beneath them he was wearing the uniform of an officer in the Continental army! He marched to the back of the church; ordered the drum to beat for recruits and over three hundred men joined him, becoming the Eighth Virginia Brigade. John Peter Muhlenberg finished the Revolution as a Major-General, having been at Valley Forge and having participated in the battles of Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, Stonypoint, and Yorktown.
Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”
Benjamin Rush:
• “I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them…we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this Divine Book, above all others, cons utes the soul of republicanism.” “By withholding the knowledge of [the Scriptures] from children, we deprive ourselves of the best means of awakening moral sensibility in their minds.” [Letter written (1790’s) in Defense of the Bible in all schools in America]
• “Christianity is the only true and perfect religion.”
• “If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into our world would have been unnecessary.”
"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write and above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education”
Letters of Benjamin Rush, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787
Justice Joseph Story:
“ I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
[Commentaries on the Cons ution of the United States p. 593]
“ Infidels and pagans were banished from the halls of justice as unworthy of credit.” [Life and letters of Joseph Story, Vol. II 1851, pp. 8-9.]
“ At the time of the adoption of the cons ution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship.”
[Commentaries on the Cons ution of the United States p. 593]
Noah Webster:
“ The duties of men are summarily comprised in the Ten Commandments, consisting of two tables; one comprehending the duties which we owe immediately to God-the other, the duties we owe to our fellow men.”
“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]
Let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God [Exodus 18:21]. . . . If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted . . . If our government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws. [Noah Webster, The History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie and Peck, 1832), pp. 336-337, 49]
“All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.” [Noah Webster. History. p. 339]
“The Bible was America’s basic textbook
in all fields.” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5]
“Education is useless without the Bible” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5 ]
I didn't say they were atheists, I said they were secularists. They founded the country on secular ideas, regardless of their own personal beliefs.
I thought you were making the assertion that this is a Christian nation as envisioned by the founders, when that simply isn't the case.
Give to Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God what is God's
Sin,
Jesus
Sounds pretty secular to me.
I'm not sure what point you're making.
So let's see...out of hater's atheist list:
Einstein wasn't atheist.
Bejamin Franklin wasn't an atheist.
I am almost certain Edison wasn't atheist...I believe I've researched that before.
Lincoln may have been an atheist but he suffered from depression and most people that suffer from depression tend to have atheistic beliefs(or at least they do when they are depressed).
So who's left from that list of great atheists that actually is an atheist?
Picking your nose for an hour and then doing a google search doesn't equal research numbnuts.
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