The Manu Doesn't Believe in God Thread

[PixelPusher]

And James Madison wrote the Bill of Rights, didn't think it was important did it under pressure...so I don't know why I'd give him much credit for the foundation of our Cons ution.

Because, besides the Bill of Rights, he also wrote..

Father of the Cons ution

Back in the Virginia state legislature, Madison welcomed peace, but soon grew alarmed at the fragility of the Articles of Confederation, and especially at the divisiveness of state governments. He strongly advocated a new cons ution to overcome this divisiveness. At the Philadelphia Convention in 1787, Madison's draft of the Virginia Plan and his revolutionary three-branch federal system became the basis for the American Cons ution of today. Though Madison was a shy man, he was one of the more outspoken members of the Continental Congress. He envisioned a strong federal government that could overrule actions of the states when they were deemed mistaken; later in life he came to admire the Supreme Court as it started filling that role.[10]

And according to you, Cons ution+Bill of Rights = "OUR" Cons ution, which means you should put Madison > Henry

[Kamnik]

Don't have time or will to read whole 29 pages, but still, one question for DPG21920


Map shows percentage of positive responses to statement "I believe there is a God." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E...ief_in_god.png

So in your opinion, in large part of Europe, believers should keep themselves closeted as not to insult any ubersensitive infidels?

/me takes bill of rights and wipes his ass

oh nice map (i like maps in general)

i never thought about it... but yeah, all 4 neigbour countries of Slovenia are much more religious

[angel_luv]

Angel if you had to advise Manu and his two options were to be happy and atheist or slightly less happy and a devout Christian, which road would you tell him to take?

Thanks.

For the record, I wasn't ignoring you. I went to sleep and here you were cooking up brunch. haha

I want Gino to know fullness of joy, so if ever given the opportunity I will advise him to choose Christ.

John 17: 13-19- ( This is Jesus speaking)
"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.
I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.
For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.


Jesus again...

John 10: 9-10-
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

[xtremesteven33]

Not really, no. You set what your purpose in life is. You even set your purpose in life when you decided to follow God's direction. You say, 'OK, God says my purpose in life is this, that and the other', when you made the decision to agree and pursue that in life, you effectively decided what your purpose in life is going to be. Some other people decided otherwise. Some people agreed, then noticed that didn't work for them, so they went a different way. There's no Right or Wrong here, IMO. It's completely a personal choice, and it's very disingenuous to claim that because somebody opted for a different purpose in life than yours, they're automatically wasting their life.
There are a lots of people who have set their purpose in life to help others, to advance sciences for the greater good of humanity, to make other people happy, and they don't believe in God at all. Even when some of their actions align themselves with Christianity.

What you say doesnt apply to the point im trying to make. Im not talking about individual value and purpose to ones life. Im talking about the broad spectrum of the human race since the beginning of time. Sure everyone has goals and ambitions everyday. I wanna go run today. So i go and do it. But how does that apply to eternal purpose of the human soul IF we do have one?

see what im saying?

I am a creationist. I believe we HAD to have intelligent design to have this beautiful universe with such precise order that none of this could have happened by accident. And since we were created by an infinite being. We assume by logic that this superior being had a plan for us.

Accidents dont have no meaning to begin with right? A "big bang" gives the impression that it was unplanned, therefore an "accidental event". AFTER the accident has happened, you can give meaning to it but not you cannot say the accident happened for a reason. that my friend is illogical.

[remingtonbo2001]

Under the athestic belief, reality does not exsist. Before you call me crazy, please read carefully.

Under such beliefs, if you were to die, nothing would happen, you would essentially cease to exsist. Therefore, everything you've percieved to have occured is non-exsistant, with regard to your conscience.

Well, you might say what about the conscience and perception of others.
As time passes, an astriod strikes the Earth, destroying all forms of life and anything which would provide evidence of previous life forms. (Hypothetical)

So, did reality exsist? Did anything ever exsist? More importantly, what defines that exsistance after such a point in time?

[Phenomanul]

For the record, I wasn't ignoring you. I went to sleep and here you were cooking up brunch. haha

I want Gino to know fullness of joy, so if ever given the opportunity I will advise him to choose Christ.

John 17: 13-19- ( This is Jesus speaking)
"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them.
I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.
My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.
For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.


Jesus again...

John 10: 9-10-
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.
He will come in and go out, and find pasture.
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

One of my two favorite passages....

[Phenomanul]

Theoretical scenario:

An athiest out at sea, staying afloat with the debris from his/her capsized vessel; 3rd day out in the water.... Sharks start to swim around.



























100:1 odds that said person starts his/her 'rescue me and I'll believe' plea to the GOD that created the universe.

[Shastafarian]

Under the athestic belief, reality does not exsist. Before you call me crazy, please read carefully.

Under such beliefs, if you were to die, nothing would happen, you would essentially cease to exsist. Therefore, everything you've percieved to have occured is non-exsistant, with regard to your conscience.

Well, you might say what about the conscience and perception of others.
As time passes, an astriod strikes the Earth, destroying all forms of life and anything which would provide evidence of previous life forms. (Hypothetical)

So, did reality exsist? Did anything ever exsist? More importantly, what defines that exsistance after such a point in time?

This makes about as much sense as letting O.J. take a ride in your White Bronco. Completely illogical argument.

[Shastafarian]

Theoretical scenario:

An athiest out at sea, staying afloat with the debris from his/her capsized vessel; 3rd day out in the water.... Sharks start to swim around.



























100:1 odds that said person starts his/her 'rescue me and I'll believe' plea to the GOD that created the universe.

Interesting scientific study you have there. Let me know what the results are when they're analyzed.

[remingtonbo2001]

This makes about as much sense as letting O.J. take a ride in your White Bronco. Completely illogical argument.

Well, if it's is so illogical, then rebuff my argument.

Why do you use sarcasm to defend your stance? Isn't there a more intellectual approach to take?

Why not try to answer the questions I purposed. Is it too difficult?

[angel_luv]

Interesting scientific study you have there. Let me know what the results are when they're analyzed.

Forget hypotheticals. You need to know this:

Romans 14: 9-12
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

What you do, what you choose is between you and God, but know that you absolutely WILL answer to God for it someday.

[xtremesteven33]

This makes about as much sense as letting O.J. take a ride in your White Bronco. Completely illogical argument.

Yea i didnt really understand it either.

Ive heard of those kinda theories before.

"Is our reality Truth?"

[Shastafarian]

Well, if it's is so illogical, then rebuff my argument.

Why do you use sarcasm to defend your stance? Isn't there a more intellectual approach to take?

Sarcasm is fun. This is an internet message board. It's supposed to be fun right?

Your argument is illogical because it assumes there needs to be continued consciousness for reality to exist. That is blatantly false. Just because we are no longer here to conceive of something doesn't mean it never existed. I feel like you're arguing, "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?"

[Shastafarian]

Forget hypotheticals. You need to know this:

Romans 14: 9-12
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

What you do, what you choose is between you and God, but know that you absolutely WILL answer to God for it someday.

If someone said they didn't want to hear about Christ, would you continue? Serious question. I'm wondering how you view other people's beliefs in that regard.

[remingtonbo2001]

Sarcasm is fun. This is an internet message board. It's supposed to be fun right?

Your argument is illogical because it assumes there needs to be continued consciousness for reality to exist. That is blatantly false. Just because we are no longer here to conceive of something doesn't mean it never existed. I feel like you're arguing, "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?"

Good point.

Okay, i'll take it one step further. If the Universe implodes upon itself, then what? What happens when the Universe ceases to exsist?

Granted, I'm presenting this in the hypothetical, but I'm curious about your opinion. Not your wit.

I will also humor the your fable. If a tree does fall in the forest and nothing is present to hear it, then no it doesn't make a sound.

Something has to be present in order for a sound to be indentified, no?

[baseline bum]

Bo, your argument can also be used to say creation never happened, because we can never know of it due to the intense gravity in the singularity that destroyed all information at the time of the big bang.

[ElNono]

What you say doesnt apply to the point im trying to make. Im not talking about individual value and purpose to ones life. Im talking about the broad spectrum of the human race since the beginning of time. Sure everyone has goals and ambitions everyday. I wanna go run today. So i go and do it. But how does that apply to eternal purpose of the human soul IF we do have one?

see what im saying?

See, the problem is that we don't agree with terms here. To you, a 'soul' is this divine thing. To me, the soul is a few cellular interconnects in my brain. And so, my soul exists just as long as I live. When I kick the bucket, so does every other part of my body. To me, there's no such concept as an 'eternal soul'.

I am a creationist. I believe we HAD to have intelligent design to have this beautiful universe with such precise order that none of this could have happened by accident. And since we were created by an infinite being. We assume by logic that this superior being had a plan for us.

If believing that is what works for you, great!

Accidents dont have no meaning to begin with right? A "big bang" gives the impression that it was unplanned, therefore an "accidental event". AFTER the accident has happened, you can give meaning to it but not you cannot say the accident happened for a reason. that my friend is illogical.

What? Accidents happen every day, and you can almost always find a reason of why they happened. When you can't, you have two paths to follow: Either you scientifically attempt to figure out why (by proposing a theory for scrutiny based on sound science) or, if you're a person that believes in the supernatural, you assign it to it.
The second problem with your post is that you assume that the Big Bang happened. It's called a theory for a reason. Even pretending here for a second that it did happen, we still don't know how it happened.
But then again, how any of this has anything to do with Evolution?

[xtremesteven33]

If someone said they didn't want to hear about Christ, would you continue? Serious question. I'm wondering how you view other people's beliefs in that regard.

Ur right. then the believer should stop. Faith was never meant to be forced upon mankind.

Jesus said:

"Those with ears listen"

thats it....

[angel_luv]

If someone said they didn't want to hear about Christ, would you continue? Serious question. I'm wondering how you view other people's beliefs in that regard.

I don't want to alienate people because I would hate to turn someone off so much that they would never give me a chance to witness to them at a later date, when they could be more receptive.

I try to live my life in a way that people know what I believe.
I hope people know they are welcome to ask me questions about my faith and/or to pray with them, whenever ( if ever) they desire to.

Joshua 24: 15-
But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

[ElNono]

Forget hypotheticals. You need to know this:

Romans 14: 9-12
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' "
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

What you do, what you choose is between you and God, but know that you absolutely WILL answer to God for it someday.

I've read much better science fiction. Much scarier too.

[baseline bum]

I will also humor the your fable. If a tree does fall in the forest and nothing is present to hear it, then no it doesn't make a sound.

Something has to be present in order for a sound to be indentified, no?

No, sound is created by pressure waves in the air with a frequency the human ear is sensitive to. Unless you believe there is no air (the medium of propagation) unless someone is there to breathe it, a falling tree does make a sound.

Saying a falling tree makes no sound is like saying any kind of inductive reasoning is incorrect.

[Shastafarian]

Good point.

Okay, i'll take it one step further. If the Universe implodes upon itself, then what? What happens when the Universe ceases to exsist?

Granted, I'm presenting this in the hypothetical, but I'm curious about your opinion. Not your wit.

Nothingness happens..in our Universe. Some people (that are smarter than you and me combined) think that there are alternate universes.

I will also humor the your fable. If a tree does fall in the forest and nothing is present to hear it, then no it doesn't make a sound.

Something has to be present in order for a sound to be indentified, no?

It depends on your definition of a sound. baselinebum explains it very well

No, sound is created by pressure waves in the air with a frequency the human ear is sensitive to. Unless you believe there is no air (the medium of propagation) unless someone is there to breathe it, a falling tree does make a sound.

Saying a falling tree makes no sound is like saying any kind of inductive reasoning is incorrect.

[angel_luv]

I've read much better science fiction. Much scarier too.

One of the great things to me about God is that one day, all will see Him and everything I have stood for in faith will be proved true.
When that day comes, AND IT WILL, no non-believer will have any argument to present, much less the nerve to speak.

I don't want you to come to the Truth to prove me right.
I want you to come to the Truth because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus and His Word WILL be PROVEN right.

[Shastafarian]

One of the great things to me about God is that one day, all will see Him and everything I have stood for in faith will be proved true.
When that day comes, AND IT WILL, no non-believer will have any argument to present, much less the nerve to speak.

I don't want you to come to the Truth to prove me right.
I want you to come to the Truth because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jesus and His Word WILL be PROVEN right.

But how can you know that for sure? I mean 100% know it. Because you read it in the Bible?

[remingtonbo2001]

No, sound is created by pressure waves in the air with a frequency the human ear is sensitive to. Unless you believe there is no air (the medium of propagation) unless someone is there to breathe it, a falling tree does make a sound.

Saying a falling tree makes no sound is like saying any kind of inductive reasoning is incorrect.

Who, or what is present to measure the waves created(sound)?

Something has to be present in order for sound to be measured. Something has to be present in order for sound to be defined.

I understand your point of view. Your holding all things constant.

We live in a world in which not everything is held constant, there are different variables.