We Need To Keep Desmon Farmer

[T Park]

Besides being a career D Leaguer, I'm wondering what else does he bring to the table?

FIFY

[Darkwaters]

I want to take some issue with the idea of Vaughn as an insurance policy.

First, long gone are the days when Tony Parker would vanish in crucial moments and we would have to sub in a seasoned veteran. Now, Tony Parker IS the veteran and is actually quite reliable. Given that, with Tony being a very low risk of not contributing, there is very little reward in having as his backup a player that is guaranteed to give you almost nothing except not spread cancer.

This aspect of your argument doesn't concern me in the least. I'm not worried about Parker. I haven't been for years. But every player on every team is at risk of being injured. Parker could go down with something and miss months at a time. Do you really want to trust the team to Hill/Stoudemire or Hill/Mason in that instance? Or would you rather have a guy on the roster that has shown he can quarterback the team in a pinch? Because none of those alternate points have any experience in this system beyond summer league and 3 preseason games.

Do you really want a Spurs noob to be an ankle twist away from the starting 5? Thats the issue.

[T Park]

Vaughn did a pretty good job in Tony's absence last year.

Was he overplayed?? Maybe so. But I think the addition of Hill would lessen that blow, and Vaughn could remain in a good to solid role.

[HarlemHeat37]

Vaughn needs to be a player-coach on the bench..he shouldn't see the court..I respect him, and I actually made a thread about him last year, when he was having a good stretch for us..

Farmer ONLY scores, but that's all we need him to do..he's a role player..Michael Finley does nothing other than score, and he's still an asset to us..these guys are role players..Farmer only needs to be an average defender when he's on the floor, since we have a great defensive system and Duncan anchoring the paint..not a concern for me..

[T Park]

Vaughn needs to be a player-coach on the bench..he shouldn't see the court..I respect him, and I actually made a thread about him last year, when he was having a good stretch for us..

Farmer ONLY scores, but that's all we need him to do..he's a role player..Michael Finley does nothing other than score, and he's still an asset to us..these guys are role players..Farmer only needs to be an average defender when he's on the floor, since we have a great defensive system and Duncan anchoring the paint..not a concern for me..

So why add to the payroll and take up a roster spot, when you already have a more proven scorer familar with the offense and defense set in place?

[HarlemHeat37]

keep them both..Finley is a very streaky player, so is Mason..it's obviously much better to have more options on offense for every given game..it's not like Farmer would be getting consistent minutes anyways, and it isn't like he would be getting paid a major amount..the payroll isn't an issue here..

[AusSpursFan]

The guy has consistently performed in the pre-season, right now he looks like a better offensive option than Stoudamire.

[Ice009]

Farmer is consistently outgunning everyone. If Pop were to make a decision today Farmer should be one of the two that makes the team.

[timtonymanu]

Farmer definitely deserves a spot.

[angelbelow]

i havent had the benefit of watching preseason games, i was wondering if farmer is scoring easy buckets(put backs, fast breaks) or if hes scoring within our offense (sets, 1v1 play, etc)?

[benefactor]

Count me in on the bandwagon...we need a scorer.

[Manufan909]

I'd rather have Hairston, but I am thinking longterm.

[barbacoataco]

Scoring in pre-season isn't exactly the same as scoring in the regular season, let alone the playoffs. Farmer is the type of player who can score in Summer League, pre-season or maybe in some European leagues. But can he score in the NBA given that he isn't very big or especially athletic? I think Hairston has more potential, but he is trying to become an SF when he always played PF in college. That is why he is getting a lot of rebounds. Over time he could become an effective player.

[angelbelow]

Scoring in pre-season isn't exactly the same as scoring in the regular season, let alone the playoffs. Farmer is the type of player who can score in Summer League, pre-season or maybe in some European leagues. But can he score in the NBA given that he isn't very big or especially athletic? I think Hairston has more potential, but he is trying to become an SF when he always played PF in college. That is why he is getting a lot of rebounds. Over time he could become an effective player.

icic, thats what i was afraid of, cause farmer is putting up points but th biggest question is he a nba scorer? thanks for the analysis.

[The Truth #6]

This aspect of your argument doesn't concern me in the least. I'm not worried about Parker. I haven't been for years. But every player on every team is at risk of being injured. Parker could go down with something and miss months at a time. Do you really want to trust the team to Hill/Stoudemire or Hill/Mason in that instance? Or would you rather have a guy on the roster that has shown he can quarterback the team in a pinch? Because none of those alternate points have any experience in this system beyond summer league and 3 preseason games.

Do you really want a Spurs noob to be an ankle twist away from the starting 5? Thats the issue.

It concerned you enough to write about it.

I wouldn't phrase the issue as wanting a Spurs noob to be an ankle twist away from the starting 5. I would say I want a player who can contribute in some meaningful way or at least have the potential to become a legitimate player, which is not how I would categorize Vaughn.

Given that, I see no reason to keep Vaughn. If he was gone we could potentially keep both 2 out of Salim, Hairston, or Farmer. It sounds like you take comfort in having Vaughn out there. I think his contributions are wildly overrated. I don't think he has true point guard skills nor do I think he helps the team in any real way, and his presence is holding back other younger players we should be developing, and whose contributions we need.

Hill can already plays better defense than Vaughn. That, right there, should be enough. He hit a couple threes recently, which is something Vaughn could never do. Honestly, I don't see the problem with relying on a rookie as our backup. Pop gushed about him. Should we not take him at his word?

Teams go with rookie point guards all the time. It's called developing talent. It's a concept we are slow to accept and now we're behind the curve because we haven't developed anyone in the last few years (except Ian, and that's still a mystery) and now we have to catch up in a short amount of time.

We can stick with Vaughn, which we will, but it won't make us a better team.

[The Truth #6]

Back to Farmer. We all know Pop loves gunners who have either burned us (though usually only in one game, which isn't a great basis to make an opinion from) or are veterans (aka over the hill). It would seem a no-brainer to take Farmer but because the guy hasn't been validated yet in the league, I have little hope we will keep him.

Pop almost never goes for what the fans want so going from past experience I will assume we'll sign Tolliver and Salim and that will be it.

[AusSpursFan]

Scoring in pre-season isn't exactly the same as scoring in the regular season, let alone the playoffs. Farmer is the type of player who can score in Summer League, pre-season or maybe in some European leagues. But can he score in the NBA given that he isn't very big or especially athletic? I think Hairston has more potential, but he is trying to become an SF when he always played PF in college. That is why he is getting a lot of rebounds. Over time he could become an effective player.

last time I checked 6-5 220lbs isn't small for a guard. Compare that to Eddie House who is 6-1 175lbs. Hairston might have more potential, but would be better off with the Toros right now. I think Farmer can come off the bench and add instant offense, however I still think our biggest need is up front.

[HarlemHeat37]

I want BOTH Hairston and Farmer on the 15-man roster..I'm tired of Tolliver, I don't buy the hype..he's a younger Bonner, which isn't a good thing..

[Fermixalot]

Farmer would be my pick as well. I like Tolliver, he hustles for boards and isn't afraid to shoot, but as was mentioned before, we can't have three different guys go 2-10 on one night.

Farmer's willingness to drive is an asset the Spurs need even with Manu and Tony. No one else really does it, and it costs the Spurs way too often. Though I am wondering as well if he is scoring in the half court offense or on fast breaks? And can he be the competent defender he has to be?

As for the other spot, I'm not sure between Watkins and Hariston. I like both of their games, hustle and guts. That's what we need and that's what they bring. Either one would be fine with me

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The sad thing is there's a good chance Farmer won't make the team.

It'll be Salim and Tolliver.


I would much much rather have Farmer, Watkins, and Hariston.

We need energy guys.....badly.

[tomtom]

I'm with the Truth here. I don't understand why so many people see Vaughn as "insurance" or a good backup. His offense is horrible and his defense is sub par. Other than being a veteran he doesn't really offer that much. I'd rather give that spot to a young guy like Farmer he might not be the greatest yet but has the ability to get better.

[Tully365]

Watching these guys fight for those last remaining spots is a lot of fun, but what it really has done is make me very excited for the arrival of James Gist next season. I think if Gist were here now, he'd be the cream of the crop.

[weebo]

I don't understand all the JV hate around here. His role on the team is to spot TP for a few minutes/night, play solid D, and let others do the scoring while he is out there. However, the opinion around this board is that if you can't score you don't deserve a roster spot.
There is more to basketball than putting up numbers on a stat sheet. JV plays his role well and Pop has said this much. He may not be worthy of starters minutes, but he is worthy of being a back up point guard on a championship team and the Spurs are not any worse off with him on the team.

[T Park]

The sad thing is there's a good chance Farmer won't make the team.

It'll be Salim and Tolliver.


I would much much rather have Farmer, Watkins, and Hariston.

We need energy guys.....badly.

Tolliver and Salim are energy guys....

[The Truth #6]

I don't understand all the JV hate around here. His role on the team is to spot TP for a few minutes/night, play solid D, and let others do the scoring while he is out there. However, the opinion around this board is that if you can't score you don't deserve a roster spot.
There is more to basketball than putting up numbers on a stat sheet. JV plays his role well and Pop has said this much. He may not be worthy of starters minutes, but he is worthy of being a back up point guard on a championship team and the Spurs are not any worse off with him on the team.

If we already had role players who could score then I would agree with you, but because we don't, Vaughn's roster spot denies a young scorer a place on the team.

Vaughn isn't a scorer and no one is expecting for that to be his role, but because we desperately need scoring, he isn't really helping to fix our weakness, if anything he is holding us back in some ways, even though he plays admirably and to the best of his abilities. This isn't about slamming Vaughn but assessing the needs of the team.

"Filling a role" and "not making mistakes" is great when we have a super talented deep bench but right now too many of the players on the team are complementary role players who only do all the "little things." Is it wrong to say that we need players who can do BIG things, like score the basketball?

Under Pop, and with Tim as our leader, a strong defense will not be our weakness. I believe the FO admits that scoring points is an issue for this team. And Pop, in my opinion, is not as strong on the offensive side as on the defensive side of the game. How else to explain infatuations with shooters who can't shoot like NVE and now Tolliver?

So yeah, I think Farmer could help the team more than Vaughn.