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Dump Bonner. Make Vaughn a highly overpaid assistant coach (subject to suiting up mid-season).
There's two more spots right there.
Spurs face some tough roster cuts
By Mike Monroe - Express-News
With their first roster cuts in the offing, the Spurs returned home late Friday night from their only extended road trip of the preseason with decisions awaiting coach Gregg Popovich that he would rather he not have to make.
With 13 guaranteed contracts, the Spurs can add no more than two players to their opening-night roster. The numbers game is daunting, both for the players trying to earn a spot and the coaching staff that must decide which players will be let go.
Veteran free agent Salim Stoudamire, a combination guard whose ability to run the club from the point got a little more valuable when rookie George Hill suffered a badly sprained left thumb in Tuesday's preseason game against the Pistons, has yet to play, victim of a nagging right groin strain.
He may be ready to go in tonight's preseason game at AT&T Center against the Indiana Pacers. The basketball staff is eager to see him in action, and how he fares will greatly affect all the players hoping to make the roster.
Malik Hairston, Devin Green and Desmon Farmer, the three young wing players competing for a position, all have played well enough that Popovich winces at the notion of giving any one of them the bad news that seems inevitable for at least two of them, perhaps before the team's pregame practice, a workout open to the public at AT&T Center at 10 a.m.
After four games, the non-guaranteed player who may have the best chance of sticking is power forward Anthony Tolliver. Through the first four preseason games, he has played 88 minutes, and has impressed with an aggressive approach at the offensive end of the court and a studious approach at the defensive end.
“Anthony's done a good job,” Popovich said after Thursday's victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers at Gund Arena. “He's shot the ball for us. He's a conscientious young man and a quick learner. He's trying to do a better job on the boards and learn the system a bit. He's someone we're real high on.”
Tolliver acknowledges that he was too hyped up in his first two preseason games to shoot the ball with the sort of confident precision that earned him an invitation to training camp after playing for the Spurs' summer league team. Then, he shot 57.1 percent from 3-point range. Going into Thursday's game in Cleveland, he was just 3 for 16 from beyond the arc. He made two of three 3-pointers against the Cavs, finishing with 10 points and the admiration of Tim Duncan.
“He can really shoot the ball,” Duncan said. “There are some details of the system that he needs to learn about, but he brings a lot to the table.”
Tolliver credits Duncan with helping him control his occasional overexuberance on the court, saying Duncan's persistent advice has been to slow down and relax.
“He's a little excitable,” Duncan said.
Tolliver, 6-foot-8 and 240 pounds, continues to believe in his shooting stroke and focus more on rebounding and the Spurs' defensive schemes. Thursday's game, he said, helped.
“I do feel I'm getting my shooting rhythm,” Tolliver said after making three of six shots, including two of three from long range, and scoring 10 points in 18 minutes against the Cavaliers. “I came out relaxed from the beginning. My first shot was quite a bit long, like most of my shots in the first three games, but once I calmed down and took my time, I took a few more and they started going in. I got my confidence from that.”
If anything, however, the evaluation process got even more difficult on Thursday when center Darryl Watkins showed off defensive skills highly valued on a team that always stresses defense first. Watkins blocked three shots against the Cavaliers and was active and aggressive on the backboards as well.
Dump Bonner. Make Vaughn a highly overpaid assistant coach (subject to suiting up mid-season).
There's two more spots right there.
Notice there isn't a "well" in that second sentence“Anthony's done a good job,” Popovich said after Thursday's victory over the Cleveland Cavaliers at Gund Arena. “He's shot the ball for us.
I've thought all along that Tolliver has by far the best chance of the training camp invites. It really sounds like he's going to make the team. I'm not sold on him as a player but in theory he fits within the Spurs' offense pretty well ... if he can actually make shots.
It sounds like out of Hairston, Green, Farmer and Stoudamire that the Spurs are leaning toward Stoudamire and are hoping that one of the other three gives them reason to change their mind. So far, all three of those players have done well but none of them have played exceptionally. Stoudamire has a pretty good chance of beating out all three if he comes back and proves he can knock down shots and play the point guard position.
Watkins is an interesting situation. My perspective has been he was going to go against Mahinmi and not Tolliver for a roster spot. Watkins has played well but I think for him to make the team, the Spurs would move Mahinmi. I don't think Watkins has played well enough for the Spurs to make that move so he'll probably get cut. I don't see him making it and Tolliver being cut because the Spurs want more than Bonner in their attempt to replace what Horry can do shooting-wise.
Gaines is gone and I'm assuming one of Green or Farmer will be gone within the next 24 hours.
Dump Bonner. Make Vaughn a highly overpaid assistant coach (subject to suiting up mid-season).
There's two more spots right there.
Interesting comment.
If Stoudamire plays well it'll make it really tough.
I just think he's too small to play SG. I'd rather keep one of those guys who can play SG/SF
I don't think there is any way Watkins would be kept over Ian until Ian's actual NBA upside is better determined. I can't see amassing that much frontline offensive inep ude on one roster at any rate.
Tolliver will probably be kept; if he beats out Bonner, they'll try to move Bonner.
The guard situation sucks because each of the D-Leaguers has something to recommend him, but Salim's experience will probably win out since none has put himself head and shoulders above the others.
I think the good news is that the D-League players probably got enough scratch in camp to stay in the D-League for a couple of months at least, so they could be available if the Spurs find a need later.
Agreed. Ian's injury made him a lock to make the roster. If he were healthy and the Spurs played him 35 minutes a night during preseason and he looked unimpressive, that'd be the only way the Spurs would give up on him this early.
I'd be stunned if the Spurs gave up on Mahinmi without giving him a long look. Although Beno lost a lot of points with Pop for being injury prone and Mahinmi is almost reaching Beno status when it comes to injuries . . .
I still don't see why they can't keep 6 bigs. If Splitter had come over, they were likely going to have 6 bigs anyway. So I don't know why Watkins can't figure into the equation. Besides, they don't have anyone on the roster (sans Duncan) who can do the things he can defensively.
Tolliver is the sixth big. Granted, he's not too "big".
I still don't know about Tolliver.
It's gonna suck if Farmer gets cut, which is likely.
I guess that means we're calling Bonner a big too.
Parker,Hill,Stoudamire
Ginobili,Mason,Finley
Bowen,Udoka,Hairston
Duncan,Mahinmi,Tolliver
Oberto,Thomas,Watkins
Won't happen unless they can find a way to move Bonner (Come on Knicks, he'd sure be good in that new system) and Pop could bring himself to part with Vaughn, but that's what I'd like to see.
In the Cleveland game, Bonner outperformed all of the new guys by a mile, finishing with 15 pts and 7 rebounds in 18 minutes of play. Tolliver has been given a fair chance to outplay Bonner and so far has just not done it. I'm not exactly a big Bonner fan, but if the situations were reversed and Tolliver was the guy already on the team and Bonner was the newcomer, it's pretty likely that many on spurstalk would be calling for a Tolliver trade to make room for Bonner.
But that is just one game...which is Bonner's M.O. He will look like a solid role player here and there and the rest of the time he looks completely lost. Bonner has had his chance and its starting to look more and more like he is what he is.
Tolliver on the other hand is five years younger than Bonner and is still has plenty of room to learn. He has already shown signs of a better basketball IQ than Bonner...and I think that Pop is thinking that he is more teachable at this point than Bonner. I also think they feel his shot will come around. By the way Duncan and Pop talk it makes one wonder if he has shown some things during practice that we haven't seen that has impressed them.
Isn't it funny that we're depending on rookies from preseason to fill out our roster due to team injuries of the highest order?
my picks are Salim and Watkins
We're depending on rookies to fill out the roster due to the roster limit of 15 players.
Injuries of the highest order end careers. Spare us the hyperbole.
Well I am very happy that the Spurs are considering Watkins. I said it in another thread that I would really like to get Watkins somehow. You guys know Pop has to be just a little excited by the defensive potential if he were to pan out.
Forget about the offensive side of the ball, but between Ian and Watkins who has the greater defensive potential? Has Ian put on any weight? Can Ian bang with the other bigs in the West? How was Ian's shot blocking in the D-League?
If we didn't have Vaughn and Bonner my picks would be Farmer, Stoudamire, Watkins, Tolliver. Only being able to pick two of those guys makes it really hard. Also, I'm leaving Hairston off cause I'm looking at players that can help us right now.
Last edited by Ice009; 10-18-2008 at 07:10 AM.
Tolliver is too excited during preseason games to shoot well ?
How can you expect him to shoot well during the playoffs where excitement is at its highest point ?
And while it's true that it's not obvious who should be cut, it's mainly because none of the training camp guys have been great. Spurs should definitively look at who will be cut by other teams because some of these players will likely be better than Spurs' training camp guys.
I like that team. Farmer and Hairston are interchangeable, but the above scenario would allow the Spurs two decent Toros prospects.Parker,Hill,Stoudamire
Ginobili,Mason,Finley
Bowen,Udoka,Hairston
Duncan,Mahinmi,Tolliver
Oberto,Thomas,Watkins
Won't happen unless they can find a way to move Bonner (Come on Knicks, he'd sure be good in that new system
But I don't see any trade-partners for Bonner. Buying out Vaughn is unlikely. There are a couple scenarios that might bring back a player for the combination of Bonner and Vaughn, but that also eats a roster spot.
Yes, well Ian has put on significant muscle since joining the Toros. He has a much fuller game than Watkins. Mahinmi is a far greater player at this point.
Yes, I've made this point in two other threads, and listed a few players. Who do you have in mind? I'm just curious.Tolliver is too excited during preseason games to shoot well ?
How can you expect him to shoot well during the playoffs where excitement is at its highest point ?
And while it's true that it's not obvious who should be cut, it's mainly because none of the training camp guys have been great. Spurs should definitively look at who will be cut by other teams because some of these players will likely be better than Spurs' training camp guys.
After rewatching the Pistons game, I believe Watkins and Farmer should be kept. (And Tolliver.)
Farmer has that "it" quality on offense.
Watkins is strong, athletic, and moves well -- rare qualities in a guy that size. The hands problem is overstated - he whiffed on one easy rebound and looked very upset about it. If Kwame Brown missed that same board, he would have shrugged his shoulders like "Whaddaya expect?" Watkins also made some nice catches along the way.
Hairston and Salim also deserve strong consideration. The Spurs need to find a way to but more time and maximize their options -- they have potential assets that they can't afford to squander.
I know it's preseason and AT is probably fighting for his dream to get a roster spot on an NBA team, but if he can't hit shots in that situation, you are right the playoffs is a whole other animal.Tolliver is too excited during preseason games to shoot well ?
How can you expect him to shoot well during the playoffs where excitement is at its highest point ?
And while it's true that it's not obvious who should be cut, it's mainly because none of the training camp guys have been great. Spurs should definitively look at who will be cut by other teams because some of these players will likely be better than Spurs' training camp guys.
Who do you suggest the Spurs wait for that could be cut and is better than the players we have currently? If I'm Pop I'd rather get a guy on board that has gone through training camp with the team and at least knows something about the system.
Shooting seems like the one quality you can forget about if you're already convinced that the guy can do it. The Spurs are probably looking harder at the rest of Tolliver's game.
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